What do you think about this?

This diet has made me an outcast of society. At first it sounded something bad as everyone wants to be included in society. But then, with time, I've developed different values to aim for. I now admire peace and the small things. I admire physical activity as a means to get to a stable peace of mind combine with a diet. This means that my new way of life is different than the rest of society and I cannot aspire for the same goals because I am different. This change has good and bad points. The good points are health, vitality, peace, harmony, enjoyment of every moment, etc. The bad point is a feeling of belonging to a minority part of society which is spread through out the whole planet. And the only contact to this group is through the internet and forums. Without the internet, I would have never achieved what I've achieved. I would have never have the means to learn and I would have aspired to the same goals and values of the mass society. Now I see society as the masses as if they were living unconsciously. The unconsciousness is not about food but it is a mental state, which one arrive through the help of food and I guess other mental/physical means. It is hard to put in words but it is different.

Hi Panchito,

I hear you loud and clear and one thing that has really helped me during some of these difficult times we rawfoodists can go through is some of the writings of Herbert Shelton. He knew firsthand what it was like on this journey, especially for those of us who are trying to help people wake up from this nightmare.

Anyway, here are a couple of my favorite quotes that keep me motivated...

"Food reform involves many changes in personal and social habits and these often come in conflict with the habits of thinking and acting of your family and associates. Unless, however, you are afraid of being lost out of the social package on the way down town, you have nothing to fear. You do not need to become a social outcast and should not do so unless you are big enough to be an outcast." -Herbert Shelton Vol. II p. 414

"It seldom happens that the reformer reaps the benefits of the reform he introduces. Men are slow to understand and still slower to act. But this does not deter the man or woman who possess a genuine love of his fellowman and whose desire for the betterment of the race is no mere sentimental pseudo-religiosity. Rather he bravely faces the disappointments he is sure to experience and with courage and determination advances the cause, which, as he sees it, stands for the liberation and enlightenment of his fellows." -Herbert Shelton

"The revolutionist must pay a price, often a big one, for the privilege, the greatest of all privileges, of awakening his fellowmen to a realization of their errors, and educating them to an awareness of a better and nobler life than that which they have formerly known. Men who cast aside the conventional prejudices of their age and country, and who dare to proclaim and live up to the truths which they perceive, seldom receive the esteem and respect they deserve. If they are sincere and courageous, they care naught for the personal discomfort which the announcement of their message brings upon them, but carve out a way for themselves." -Herbert Shelton

Peace and Love..........John

Thanks John.

I have no control of what other people do or say. I accept all people like they are. If they get angry, that is not my problem and I try not to see it that way. What I do is to try to understand their negativity. If I can put it in a higher plane of view, then it does not affect me but I get disconnected from them. This requires training and right now I feel I am in training mode. Sometimes looks easy, sometimes they drag you down in spinning thoughts. Thats all it is, thoughts.

Agreed…it’s not as easy as attitudes are contagious and whenever you think differently than others, they tend to take it personally.

“People will not be unkind to you unless they are hurting. It is not appropriate to catch their disease. If people are being unkind, they are displaying a symptom. Remember, it’s a symptom, they are diseased. Their disease is contagious, don’t catch it. Be a healer, heal yourself and heal others. Don’t catch the disease.” -Dr. Robert Pennington

"So prone are men and women to regard their own ingrained prejudices as established first principles that it is difficult to attack and expose old errors without offending those who hold to these; for men usually regard an attack upon their inherited beliefs and prepossessions as an attack upon their persons." Herbert Shelton, "The Science and Fine Art of Natural Hygiene" Vol. I of VII p. 416

“Not only do we have a geographical territory and become angry when someone comes uninvited onto our property and starts picking our flowers, but we also have a psychological territory and we become angry whenever anyone criticizes us. We also have a theological or an ideological territory, and we tend to become angry whenever anyone criticizes our beliefs or casts aspersions upon our ideas.” M. Scott Peck, “Further Along The Road Less Traveled” p. 30

Peace and Love..........John

Thanks again. Good quotes.

Some people have a truck "load" of bad thoughts they carry. Sometimes they wait till they see you to "unload" the truck. That's their way to connect with you. Other times they react to things you say (not what they carry) in a negative way as if they try to Help you and save you. Other times, they react in a negative way because they want to control you for their own imagined goals. It would be interesting to create a list of these negative coducts.

"Sometimes they wait till they see you to "unload" the truck. That's their way to connect with you."

I laughed because sometimes it's too true...

I think you just have to take what community you can get when it happens, and try to avoid differences when dealing with others, especially if it's not productive. My lifestyle is not open to debate... there's nothing TO debate.

I agree with Phantom. You don't have to broadcast your beliefs and if someone asks, you just state the answer in as low-key a way as possible. Some people feel like your practices reflect upon their own. We have discussed that on here before. If you eat healthily and other people see this, some will feel threatened because they know they are not doing so.

I worked at a school and rode my bike there. The head teacher learned of this and said: "I can't do that. I live too far." I was a bit confused because I didn't ask her why she didn't ride a bike to school; it was all in her head.

Panchito, I have been a social pariah all my life. I have always felt and thought differently since primary school days. I've tried to fit in, to be liked and wanted, but for whatever reason/s, I would never really 'gel' with them.

At the earliest opportunity I left home, which eventually lead me into an alternative lifestyle/hippie type back to nature etc. But all you have to do is eat differently than the norm, and you're immediately a pariah. However, it can work well for you socially, as sometimes people will try to emulate your eating habits, since many will want to lose weight, and are willing to try something different.

I've found that they won't last long, as they too, become aware of the social barriers when you eat differently from everyone else. And yes, even though I'm a private person, I'd say that most of my friends are online these days.

Hey, what if we all plan to get together for a week holiday some time in the future? Somewhere around halfway from where most of us live? Wouldn't that be great? What say you?

Panchito, yes, I agree that much of society is unconscious about how they are living. Thinking about that can feel overwhelming, so I am glad that you are finding some support through the internet and forums.

I believe that it is possible (and important) for us to have a positive influence on the world - even if it is just by being good role models. If we allow ourselves to feel too apart from society, we won't have the opportunity to have a positive impact. It can be lonely too. Depressed and lonely is a bad place to be.

How to keep your integrity and be a part of society is a challenge to figure out.

My husband has been a wonderful example for me of someone who gives the APPEARANCE OF CONFORMITY while being a very independent thinker. He gets along well with an amazing assortment of people who are VERY different from him. He'll "fit in" enough to get along with people and find where they have commonality and enjoy that narrow part of interaction. He uses humor a lot and often leaves people laughing. He's never preachy, but is pleased when he thinks he has influenced someone to make a tiny shift to broaden their world view.

I trust that you'll find your unique way to transcend mass culture.

And I hope that peace and happiness find you!


My favorite raw vegan

Hmm, a weekend getaway? I think we should make it a breatharian potluck! :O Or at least somewhere with a big serving of sunshine, anyway. >8)

Hey, I watch a documentary yesterday at 6pm eastern coast about Fear. One sentence that I think was important was:

"Every society is a inmortality project"

So people in a society defend and identify with the society believes. The lost of identity creates fear just like the fear of dying. So if people see you different, they may or may not react with fear. Some cultures are like born out of fear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2012 01:37PM by Panchito.

What a sad little post. An outcast - really?

I find that just being honest and kind is enough for most people to return the favour. I don't need all my friends to eat the same way as I do or go running or do crochet!!!

I sometimes think that there are people in the raw world who think they are superior to other people; that they have found some kind of key to happiness that other people can't possibly have because they don't eat raw.

There are all kinds of ways to happiness, inner peace - what ever you want to call it. I suspect that some people feel lonely or a sense of isolation because they put their values on everybody else rather than just accepting and embracing all our differences.

I am good friends with many people that don't eat as I do but we seldom refer to it and if we do it might be a casual enquiry on their part. I don't take that enquiry as an indication that they are trying to do me down, or justify their own habits but as a genuine query and I do my best to answer it.

I think one of the positive things about getting older is being able to accept people on different levels, to not judge, critisize and condemn - don't you see that all the remarks that are made about so called 'SAD eaters' are all the sorts of remarks we don't want levelled at ourselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 07:38AM by flipperjan.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 12:12PM by Panchito.

Could you please say what your post is about as I have limited broadband and so don't click on links.

Flipperjan, I think your post is spot-on. The only thing I would change is that first sentence. "Sad little post" implies that it is a 'poor-me' thread and I totally get where Panchito is coming from, especially the part about "The unconsiousness is not about food but is a mental state..." I don't see it as judgment (condemnation) towards society but merely an awareness that so many people seem to just go through the motions..."The unexamined life," in other words. Food is symbolic of this sort of robotic existence. But I think you are really right-on when you talk about accepting differences and not trying to impose your lifestyle on others.

flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could you please say what your post is about as I
> have limited broadband and so don't click on
> links.

It is a bias british tv documentary that says that raw foodists are outside society because of the "extreme choices" they make. The article call these people health food junkies (title) and selects things to show in an attemp to create a negative image. The second link was a link to the video discussion in this forum.

I don't see being different as "sad" but someone can see it that way. It is all based on thought. I don't ask anybody for their permission to be happy and I don't expect anybody to tell me how I should live in order to be "socially included". If you come from that point of view, there is no sadness. Most people ask me questions about what I eat when they see my food. Many of them are fat and sick and yet they try to give advice. They have all kind of stories spinning inside their heads. I don't bother with them making a point like "look at you" as this just creates more drama and drains my energy.

Check this out. last week I was at a class and the instructor saying that he had a strange problem with some pain in the knees. His doctor had told him "NOT TO EAT SPINACH" but at lunch time he came back with bags from BURGER KING. Ha ha some people need brain rescue before they can fix their bodies.

No I don't think being different is sad either - your exact words were that your diet has made you a social outcast - I think that is sad. Who are these people that try to give you advice? - you call them people - not friends I note. Are they just inconsequential people you bump into - surely their opinion of you and your lifestyle doesn't matter at all. What do your FRIENDS say? - or are you saying you have no friends - a social outcast. This is why I said sad.

I think you and I must mix with very different people. I don't even know where a burger king is - i would have to travel quite a long way to find one. The people I mix with often come to the whole food shop where I work - we chat etc. Although some of them eat a bit of meat and dairy they all include lots of organic fruit and veg and try to shop ethically, locally, garden, take exercise etc etc.

If I had the sort of experiences that you seem to be talking about I suppose I would feel a bit more on the defensive too. My friends grow their own food, oppose Monsanto, do yoga you know all the things we probably agree on too - I just don't have the conflict that you seem to. My Dr. was perfectly happy when I was nearly 100% raw and training for a marathon - he was much more interested in my training schedule and stretches etc (being a keen runner himself) - he didn't comment on my diet one way or the other for which I was grateful.

I watch very little television and won't watch the link you posted so therefore a lot of this negative stuff passes me by. I live my little life, deep in the countryside mostly unbothered by the craziness that goes on else where. Where do you live? - I think if I lived in a seething mass of obese, ill, confrontational people I would probably feel like you do - thankfully I don't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 04:59PM by flipperjan.

lots of questions. seems like answering your questions opens more and more questions. The world runs fine relax.

I'm sorry Panchito - I didn't mean to add to your problems. I thought for you the world did't run fine.

Sorry for my questions - I was only trying to understand where you were coming from and explain that in my world it didn't seem so bad. Best wishes to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 09:11PM by flipperjan.

no problem. I am fine myself. Thanks.

This diet has made me see worlds of other people expectations which apparently did not noticed before. In a way, this diet has made me mentally stronger. For example, instead of avoiding negative people, I just go to the center of the beehive and become inmune. Then, I don't have any fear to be close to negative persons. I don't need to avoid them. Once you conquer your fears you become free. The expectations of people clash and sometimes your own expectations are the ones that sink you down. Expectations are thoughts with the word "should" In the last week I gained a lot of freedom based on letting go of expectations. So I thank the contact with negative people, I became inmune to their vibe.