[www.newson6.com]

Apparently there had been a complaint against this woman - but I don't understand why - for growing medicinal plants?

This really wouldn't happen in the UK. I want to know if it is a sign of times to come!

The kicker is that she uses them medicinally. Nope, can't have that. Besides, everyone knows that stevia is grown by subversives...

Don't get too cosy about the UK. It could happen anywhere eventually.

Absolutely banana who - I'm under no illusion about that hence my last sentence!!

We always reckon that we are just a few years behind the States - so i keep a keen eye on what is happening across the pond as it is bound to be on it's way here soon.

I think this was more likely a case of blight, or perceived blight; she did seem to have a disused car in the yard, a traditional justification of blight citation in suburbia everywhere. This is Tulsa, people, Tulsa!

The alarming thing to me, as a homeowner, is that for this to have happened, a fellow civilian must have complained, but there was an administrative hiccup--or series of them--which prevented the specific complaint frm being made known to the homeowner, and prevented the homeowner from having redress in court. That's the real problem here, not whether she was growing medicinal plants, IMO. Half of that stuff was a garden, which is not a big deal there.

Tam - what is 'blight' and what is the signifigance of Tulsa?

Does it make a difference if you have a disused car in your yard?

flipperjan,

Blight is a term for unkempt or hazardous property, in municipal management parlance. A car "up on blocks" in a yard, even a back yard, is considered junk, even in working class neighborhoods, and rightly or unrightly, used as an indicator of a homeowners general diligence in keeping a property neat and free of vermin.

Tulsa is an old conservative southern Midwestern city in a really conservative state, and has had a long history of, let us say, respecting the rights of individual property owners.

I truly think this is a case of one administrative mistake after another.

All Over America Government Control Freaks Are Forcing Preppers Back On To The Grid
Michael Synder
The American Dream
June 19, 2012
[endoftheamericandream.com]

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> flipperjan,
>
> Blight is a term for unkempt or hazardous
> property, in municipal management parlance. A car
> "up on blocks" in a yard, even a back yard, is
> considered junk, even in working class
> neighborhoods, and rightly or unrightly, used as
> an indicator of a homeowners general diligence in
> keeping a property neat and free of vermin.
>
> Tulsa is an old conservative southern Midwestern
> city in a really conservative state, and has had a
> long history of, let us say, respecting the rights
> of individual property owners.
>
> I truly think this is a case of one administrative
> mistake after another.


I am sorry, Tam, but I totally disagree with you. The car issue could have been dealt with separately but this is dispicable. Remember the "Food Safety Act?"
[www.naturalnews.com]

Food freedom alert: City authorities in Ferguson, Mo., threaten to tear down another fully legal front yard garden
Tuesday, June 19, 2012 by: Jonathan Benson, staff writer
[www.naturalnews.com]

Look, all I'm saying is, if she had a junky car in her yard PLUS lots and lots of plants growing in her yard, attracting goodness knows what critters--and I don't mean butterflies--the city might have thought they had good reason to cite her for general blight; they don't usually issue separate enumerated blight tickets for a junk car and an overgown yard, at least not in most municipalities. There is no evidence that she was targeted because she grew medicinal plants; they weren't the only things she grew but all of the vegetation was pulled out. We don't know what the yard looked like, or what the adminstrative procedure should have been to deal with it, so how can we possibly reasonably assume this is some sort of conspiracy against health with a capital H? I will assume this was a bureaucratic snafu, because that's what it usually turns out to be.

That sort of thing happens in Oz too, and it's usually some small town council that believe that they are Gods or something.

'A sign of the times'??? But what kind of sign? Perhaps, it's a last ditch attempt and show of power before a change to a more equal, balanced future society which are comprised of people who are more personally responsible for their community structure.

Cheers, jalan

Jalan - a sign of the times that in England we may not be able to harbour what ever we like in our gardens. I would be outraged to be told that i couldn't have 5 disused cars in my garden - it is my garden - no one else's business. It shouldn't matter if i grow nettles, weeds or roses.
My car is 54 years old, my partners landrover is 55 years old - if we couldn't put old, dilapidated 'wrecks' in our garden we would not now be driving around in lovely vintage cars that are admired by all that see them. All is not what it seems - it's disgraceful to have to keep your garden in some kind of pristine order to suit some pen pusher from the council.
A tatty car in the garden does not mean that your garden will be overrun with vermin - anyway - what is vermin?
Sorry - this one gets to me

Flipperjan, I am with you. Everyone has a different idea of what's junk, an eyesore, not appealing. How about that man from the Dakotas who painted his house with polka dots and drove the neighbors mad? Most people gravitate towards drab colors. I notice how most people who drive have cars that are either black, being, grey or white. Yawn...My living room is a neon pastel orange (think Dreamsicle) and my dining room is periwinkle. Colors are important, IMO.

The aggression in this act is not lost on me. It must have felt like such a violation. Poor woman. Hope she sues their arses off, gets a pile of money and moves to the boondocks to start up a small medicinal farm

flipperjan,

Vermin refers to rats, skunks, raccons, and increasingly, feral dogs, cats and cayotes. Though I love all animals, I can understand why the property upkeep rules of suburban neighborhoods would discourage standing debris/edibles that could attract aggressive opportunistic scavengers. If there are young children in the neighborhood, say, not having vermin around would seem prudent. Whether we like it, the needs of humans will be considered first in writing property codes regarding neatness.

By the way, the citation isn't about rarely used vintage auto; it's concerning an unused car that has not been removed. Maybe Tulsa doesn't have charitable organizations that specialize in retrieving broken cars for scrap, although these are pretty common in the States . . .

I am not one of those people that think government--or a neighborhood association--should tell you that you can't paint the trim of your house fuschia or that you cannot keep garden beds in your front yard: Hello, Tyree Guyton! But I understand the wanting to limit wildness in inhabited neighborhoods. It's a safety issue, not a personal freedom issue, for pete's sake. Your right to keep a rustic garden and a junked car in your yard is superseded by the right of your neighbors to not have to deal with rats. What if the neighbor who complained was sincerely worried that the property might be unsafe? We know just as much about this story to assume that, as to assume that this was totalitarian overreach and a violation of the sacred property rights of a sweet old woman with lavender and comfrey bundles drying under the eaves of her wee gingerbread cottage, LOL!

Now that's a really balance reply. I usually try to see some positive in all the mess, but what you say re 'vermin' etc is so true. Perhaps the councils could tighten up their policies and legislation so as to be more specific.

Now, I've seen some pretty ugly, untidy and overgrown suburban properties. Overgrown, not only with vegetation, but with garbage bags full of kitchen waste etc. Ten or twenty cats and/or dogs, old 'rusted' car wrecks too.

And usually, we're not shown enough info to make an informed decision anyway.

I agree that we don't know much about this story but generally an old rusty car does not create an influx of rats and I should know!!!

Jalan - a wild garden full of plants rather than a neatly mown lawn will not encourage vermin. It is however a haven for wildlife rather than a sterile monoculture. No one would argue about your 20 bags of kitchen waste however that is not what I was talking about.

My car WAS an old 'rusted' wreck - I'm just glad none of my neighbours were so inclined to complain about it - or the noise of the angle grinder; many hours of work had to be put in just to get the metal back to a state where it could be welded up. (it wasn't and isn't a rarely used vintage auto- it went from being a heap of scrap to my everyday car which happens to be vintage - a beautiful example of repair rather than scrapping it)

Safety issue - hmm - weeds and rusty cars do not encourage vermin. What are standing edibles - do you mean vegetables? I can't believe you are actually saying that people should not be able to grow vegetables in their own gardens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2012 09:13PM by flipperjan.

flipperjan,

First, a beater truck abandoned in a yard is not the same as a car being slowly restored, loudly or quietly. Car restoration is an American pastime, is a typical Saturday morning activity in any suburb in any state in the Union, and because it does not require a permit, is generally allowed by municipal governments. Your auto resoration project does not appear to be equivalent to what this woman was cited for.

Second,

Quote

I can't believe you are actually saying that people should not be able to grow vegetables in their own gardens.

That's because I'm not; from my just prior post:

Quote

I am not one of those people that think government--or a neighborhood association--should tell you that you can't paint the trim of your house fuschia or that you cannot keep garden beds in your front yard

This is not rural England, flipperjan; it's a residential neighborhood in a major city. Here, abandoned cars and excess vegetation do so attract vermin. I live next to a watershed plain and a river and my "rustic" back yard does attract wildlife, like woodchucks, deer, and foxes. Were I near a grocery store, convenience store, or restaurant, you bet I'd be attracting rats and racoons, and it would be a problem. At the very least, my neighbors with kids might be concerned that urbanized disease-carrying critters are being unwittingly welcomed by the sheltering wildness of my property. And they'd be right to be concerned.

Look, I think this woman's garden was lovely looking and I'd love to be able to keep edible plants and orchard trees without wildlife ravaging them--no black currants or pears for me, again, this year!--but I don't know whether she was in an old suburb or near a commercial district with food services and the like, requiring her to limit vegetation to keep vermin from spreading throughout the neighborhood. Like everyobody else here, I am speculating that this might have been a possible justification for the city's action. I still believe it more likely, though, based on the fact that her totally commonplace front porch flowerbeds were torn out also and because the garden citation has been legally dismissed, that this was just a terrible administrative mistake.

Hey Flipperjan, I agree with what you have said. Somehow, there seems to be a huge misunderstanding that has now focussed on you and your yard.

So sorry if what I've said makes you feel that way, as I'm really saying that depending on the circumstances, 'vermin', or what could be translated as such can be attracted to a beautiful garden with floral, as well as vegies and fruit growing, if it was close to the only habitat in the area that resembled their own.

Particularly, if your beautiful abode was close to shopping centres or some animal or produce processing factories etcl, as Tam has said.

In the case of this lady and her medicinal flower beds, perhaps the council employees were over enthusiastic in their duties. No, not 'perhaps', 'DEFINATELY', unless there is a lot of info that has been excluded from the story to make it more emotive, and hence, more newsworthy.

Unfortunately, it's not unheard of to switch between the news channels to find variations of the very same story, or even something as basic as the weather.

Just curious Flipperjan, what make is your vintage vehicle? I love old autos, and there's a club in my area where the owners have an outing every other month. It's great to rock up and check out their restorations, and the time, money and love that's gone into their project.

Cheers, jalan

Phew - i'm glad I don't live in the city I guess I don't have much experience of living next to fast food outlets and shops although i have to say the churchyard next to the very busy pub in my village doesn't seem to have a problem - i guess it's a question of numbers.

Fair enough Tam - however you did mention standing edibles which begged my question

Jalan I have a morris minor - it's great, people never suffer road rage with me cos they think it's so 'cute' - they wouldn't if they rode in it in the winter - draughty, misted up and very cold - and exceedingly slow!!! I love it.
My partner's landrover is a series 1 and is in no way done up. Tam would have it towed away for sure - it is however an amazing machine (kinds looks like something out of Mad Max) We put a Triumph straight 6 engine in it so it has loads more power than would be expected in a series 1. It also has really chunky off road tyres - we can drag loads of wood out of exceptionally steep and rough woodland. It also is amazing in the snow - often towing people out of drifts etc. It definately outperforms some of the more fancy 4 wheel drives you see on the school run - lol

I'm sure we've said all that we need to on backyards etc

lots of love



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2012 06:57AM by flipperjan.

Yep, I agree re backyards, and I too believe that population has a lot to do with hygiene.

Hey, that Mad-Max-Machine sounds awesome. It must have great torque and low range gears. Yeah, we call those 'school run' 4b's, 'suburban 4wd's'. They're not really off roaders at all, and wouldn't pull your hat off in a gale LOL.

I restored a morris minor once. A really great little machine, and I loved the hydrolastic suspension. I was able to fly around tight bends in the road without hardly slowing down. It would stay level too, and not tilt like all other vehicles do. People used to say that the suspension would always leak oil, and hence lose its superior road handling ability. But mine never did, and I reckon they were just jealous anyway haha.

Cheers, jalan x

Small West Yorkshire town aims to be first town with food self-sufficiency by growing all its own vegetables
Tuesday, June 26, 2012 by: PF Louis
[www.naturalnews.com]

I like this story - it's not the first of it's kind.

Guerilla gardening is also quite active in the UK - I sprinkle seeds all over the place