Well, I still reckon most people believe that we need animal products to be healthy. It's still one of the first things people ask me when they find out I eat mainly raw veg and fruit, 'But where do you get your protein'.

Also, the complete protein myth extends the belief that vegans cannot be healthy, by suggesting that there's only one non-animal form.

At work, a group of us guys were chatting about everything and nothing, and diet came up. One guy said, 'Hey, you're a vego aren't you?'. Of course I gave affirmation, and we continued to discuss the topic for awhile until another overweight guy launched into a tirade of how unfit vegetarians were, and how they don't have any staying power (endurance). Well, I wasn't going to let that go unchallanged, and considering that everyone there had heard me say that I was a vego, I also took the slight personally. So, I turned to the guy and said, 'Is that right, well you just heard that I don't eat meat, and I reckon I'd run rings around you!' He didn't utter a sound and someone jumped in and changed the subject.

The above is a good example of what I believe is generally thought about people who don't eat meat, and particularly among men. I've certainly heard more negative conversations among the general public than positive ones. However, the tide is slowly turning, and it's about time.

But why did I say, 'Particularly among men?' Could it be due to our cultures stereotype of what constitutes a man in our society, and why a man would never order a quiche if he was in the company of other men? And that's something else, food is a very social medium, no matter which culture you're from.

So there's more to this equation than meets the eye eh! Sometimes, facts and figures don't mean anything, and you could argue until exhaustion, providing a mountain of journal articles of verifiable and valid studies, but it still wouldn't make a dent.

Social change is slow, and also painful, but it's happening, and as long as we can communicate with others, we too are providing the RAW materials that have seen much change within the last several decades. Just look back to the beginning of the hippie movement, and the changes that have occured since then, magnificent

<<<I wasn't going to let that go unchallenged>>>

WOW!!! Talk about Serendipity - just before you posted this I went back through my files on all of my old posts from this website and created this Recap

…JR Inserts for Defending the Truth…

JR Insert from “LIVING AND RAW FOOD DISCUSSION - 1” file…
8-16-00
Are people who don't believe or understand this simple law going to object? Of course, but it doesn't mean that this simple law should not be defended. Almost every problem that we have as a species can be traced to the violation of this law. All of our problems are Nature's way of telling us that something is wrong. If anyone doesn't understand this concept, than maybe what the Egyptians said to Pythagoras may also apply to them...

1-23-01
Personally, I prefer to focus on the positives and not the negatives. I do agree with you, however, I too will defend the TRUTH if anyone attacks our RAW FOOD message.

1-24-01
Just for the record, I will never oppose what anyone says because of a personal attack on me, but I will when they attack the TRUTH.
john

Hi Ladybug,

<<<Well if that isn't a case of "the pot calling the kettle black", I don't know what is.>>>

As I mentioned to you on an earlier post...I will defend the TRUTH if anyone attacks our RAW FOOD message. ...see below reference:

2-6-01
tom<<<You - JR - are a waste of everyone's time, in my opinion. I only tease you because you have repeatedly attacked my website and me. Examples of groundless attacks are in the post this is a reply to. Your negative behavior discredits the raw movement more than anything I could do, or have done.>>>

Even though I have been attacked by some, I have NEVER lowered myself to their level. I have NEVER attacked anyone, but as I have said in the past, I will defend the TRUTH when it is attacked. As Thoreau once said, "He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Lately, I've been ignoring your insults to me and now, you try to get out of it by calling it teasing. If anything, your negative behavior and comments against me are not only discrediting the raw food movement, but they are also libelous.
End of JR Insert from “LIVING AND RAW FOOD DISCUSSION - 1” file….

JR Insert from “LIVING AND RAW FOOD DISCUSSION - 3” file…
09-26-02
I sure do agree with you about all of the garbage that goes on at the living and raw foods board and I sure do hope that some of these people change their ways or are banned. We've had problems like this before and I had to turn into an asshole to get rid of Winston...I did not like doing it, but I will do whatever it takes. I've recently had to do something similar with Zsuzsa and since then she has not attacked me. I do not enjoy having to resort to such drastic measures, but I am dedicated to my mission and I will do whatever it takes.
End of JR Insert from “LIVING AND RAW FOOD DISCUSSION - 3” file….

Of course, one of the first things I thought of was the Buddha…

“Again, there may be some people in the future who...being under the influence of the taste of meat will string together in various ways many sophisticated arguments to defend meat eating. ...But meat eating in any form, in any manner, and in any place is unconditionally, and once and for all, prohibited. ...Meat eating I have not permitted to anyone, I do not permit, and will not permit.” -Buddha

Peace and Love..........John

jalanutan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At work, a group of us guys were chatting about
> everything and nothing, and diet came up. One guy
> said, 'Hey, you're a vego aren't you?'. Of course
> I gave affirmation, and we continued to discuss
> the topic for awhile until another overweight guy
> launched into a tirade of how unfit vegetarians
> were, and how they don't have any staying power
> (endurance). Well, I wasn't going to let that go
> unchallanged, and considering that everyone there
> had heard me say that I was a vego, I also took
> the slight personally. So, I turned to the guy and
> said, 'Is that right, well you just heard that I
> don't eat meat, and I reckon I'd run rings around
> you!' He didn't utter a sound and someone jumped
> in and changed the subject.
>
> The above is a good example of what I believe is
> generally thought about people who don't eat meat,
> and particularly among men. I've certainly heard
> more negative conversations among the general
> public than positive ones. However, the tide is
> slowly turning, and it's about time.


Is the above really that a good example though? From what you describe it seems very likely that the guy was merely jealous. You were sitting there, slim, fit, healthy, crunching your veggies, undoubtedly catching the eyes of some women, and he was sitting there next to you, fat, stinky, unhealthy, and plainly realising his own inadequacy. And so he had a go at you, in an attempt to try and make you feel inadequate as well.

Can you really do anything else but laugh at such attempt, so desperate and futile that it's difficult to feel anything other than pity for the guy. Just like John Rose here, he doesnt know from which side to jump, from which new angle to bite, but he painfully searches for them forgetting everything else, where he is, whose thread it is, what's it about and so on, in the hope that it will make him feel better. How can this ever be taken seriously

As I said above, I totally agree that there are still plenty of uneducated people around, it's just personally I haven't really come across the disbelief and sense of exclusiveness at being a vegan that you described in your situation with the doctor, and it surprised me. In fact, I don't really expect to come across those sentiments when meeting other people, who knows maybe this lack of expectation has something to do with the lack of feedback. In any case that's why I quoted that article next to giving other examples of vegan/vegetarian awareness around, simply to explain why I felt so. Not to press numbers on you of course, sorry you thought that

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2012 03:27AM by chat.

Yes, that was interesting John, and these days I tend to believe there's more to it than only basic coincidence.

Chat, I didn't think you were, but I thought your POV was interesting. It seems that we both have experienced each end of the spectrum. Anyway, I'll post the encounter with my Doc when it happens, but it'll be awhile since I don't have another appointment until mid August, when I'm legally able to drive again.

Cheers, jalan

I am so happy to hear how well you're doing! This is fantastic news and I know it will only get better and better as you are making sure not to overdo it and to pay careful attention to how your body is feeling.
Very best wishing for recovery my friend .

Thx heaps for the encouragement Coco girl

Hi all,

Well, as from yesterday (31st July) I can walk without any walking sticks and without very much discomfort (not even one month since the op). However, I do need a little help when I first stand, from being seated for a considerable length of time. For this, I only use one stick, as it appears that the muscles sort of 'gel' when seated and there's a little pain when re-energising them again on standing and walking those first few steps....

Also, I only now use one stick when going on my daily walk down the beach. I probably don't really need it, but for stability, and due to the danger of a fall and dislocation, I use the one stick for now.

Cheers, jalan

I'm so glad for you especially about the pain relief. Enjoy the beach!

Love,
Prism

Thank you Prism yes, and it's like everything is happening in reverse. For years before my op, the pain was slowly increasing with less and less mobility. And now it's like it's all reversing rapidly in fast motion, and soon I won't have any pain at all with full mobility and full extention.

I can't wait to get back on my Harley and back windsurfing again...you beauty!

jalan x

This is great to hear, jalan--your joy about this is palpable! Keep on healin'!

Hi beautiful people,

As from yesterday (2nd Aug, 1 month since surgery) I don't need the stick at all, even when standing from being seated for a length of time. However, I have been using just one stick when going for my walk since there is still a little pain and also the danger of dislocation.

Dislocation will be the only thing I'll have to be careful of duing the next few months.

Cheers, jalan