Sproutarian man?
Anyone?

I mean below recommended caloric level...

I am curious what u eat
Calorie level
How often u eat
Low med or hi activity level

I think I was wrong when I doubted richard blackman
And sman eating lowcal and think maybe
Overeating is common
And caloric needs overstated



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 11:25PM by fresh.

I do agree with you that caloric needs are often overstated and over-eating is quite common.

But if you are even relatively active do watch long term with a low calorie diet.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

if you go low calorie, watch out for the hormones. I think people will attribute the effects of hormone imbalance to a lack nutrients (low calorie). It is all at once. Your age and physical condition are also very important because of the hormones. Not everybody will get the same effects. That's why some people will get big and others will get skiny. Their hormone balance is not the same.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2012 09:23AM by Panchito.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do agree with you that caloric needs are often
> overstated and over-eating is quite common.
>
> But if you are even relatively active do watch
> long term with a low calorie diet.
>
> [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

At this point I am referring to low activity
And short term

U may be right about long term and activity level
My experiment is ongoing

Its just that due to accepted theory
I should not have been able to go a week
Without going hungry on 700 kcal per day
That's way below basal rate

yes, hormones must be a factor as u said, panchito

you could stimulate hormone glands naturally (if you think you are low) by taking gingko biloba and ginseng. Gingko will affect the circulation of the brain plus dopamine, and this affects the pituitary gland (master homonal gland). The pitutary glands stimulates other glands to release hormones and neurotransmiters.

oh wows Fresh ..700 cals really? that seems really low to me .. what do you eat for the day?

i dont think even when im desk jockeying all winter doing taxes i could make it on 700 calories a day

i think id runout of steam

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

It didnt happen until I was clear
And eating pure
And made a conscious decision
Not to eat unless feeling some kind
Of hunger pull. It was not a strong hunger
And maybe I could have gone a day or more
With no problem but I decided to eat a bit each day
No energy problems, some exercise too.
Weightlifting,swimming biking,desk jockeying ;-)

Either I am losing weight or we all overeat
And much goes to waste...
Or cant go by hunger
Or....?

I ate mostly fruit and some veg
Will post foods if I go long enuf without losing weight
Equal to calorie deficit

I eat 1200-1400 a day, varied raw vegan diet (99% of the time, very occasionally i would eat tofu, steamed white potato, boiled buckwheat, quinoa, or white rice, and raw seafood when we go to japanese restaurant).

Some of the staples are sprouted broccoli, mature broccoli, lettuce (lots), avocado (1 or 2 a day), sweet potato, cauliflower, tomato (lots), cucumber, onions and garlic, parsley and cilantro, beetroot and carrots, dried seaweeds, miso, sprouted mung beans, lentils, chickpeas and adzuki beans.

And fruits for breakfast and as a snack in between meals: banana, mango, apple (lots), kiwi (lots), blackberry, pears, blueberry.


I eat 3 times a day main meals (fruit for breakfast and veggies for lunch and dinner), and approximately twice in between these main meals I would eat couple of fruits more.

Low activity I suppose, or medium? I drive most everywhere, and my job is desk based, although I get to talk a lot and feel it requires a lot of energy. But I go to gym couple of times a week during lunch where we play basketball, and I ride horses another 2-3 times a week. And some fast latin dancing once-twice a week.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2012 03:21PM by chat.

oh I dont doubt the overeating part lol

travelling around asia ..and even south america years ago i found when you had meals outside of your main city centers ..

most meals seem to center around a common theme .. small amount of rice/potato/noodle .. some boiled veg flavorored with spices .. and very rarely a bit of meat/seafood .. but the quanties are small .. and people work hard al day

i think a 1lb hungry man dinner would feed a famlily of six in nepal LOL

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

chat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I eat 1200-1400 a day, varied raw vegan diet (99%
> of the time, very occasionally i would eat tofu,
> steamed white potato, boiled buckwheat, quinoa, or
> white rice, and raw seafood when we go to japanese
> restaurant).


and using a calculator online like
[www.freedieting.com]

what does it say for you?

personal food intake study at 12 days
all raw

results/comments:
no weight loss
did not go hungry
ate when hungry
energy level good
not sedentary
low to moderate activity level
higher energy than normal
less sleep required

daily calorie intake 32 to 54% of recommended intake level

total calorie intake
54% of basal metabolic rate
40% of recommended calories based on activity level

should have lost 4+ pounds ?

even though study not tightly controlled and brief, it must be indicative of something.

i have always overeaten, cooked and raw

the change to undertake the study was that i consciously did not eat unless some hunger existed, even though sometimes weak cues.

EVEN IF THE CALCULATIONS are off and there was some weight loss, how can the following be explained
- energy level good
- very low calories
- low hunger level

NOTE -
Some people claim to eat X (3000+ for example) calories on raw diet. This does not mean that it is ideal or necessary. of course higher activity requires higher intake but..
Unless there is a true need for food, with real hunger,
excessive eating can occur due to fears of low weight or nutrients, or not eating high water diet, or because we like to eat. Dehydration can be mistaken for hunger. Of course also ANY dried food, condiment, salt, etc can increase false hunger.

if my experience is at all typical...
-overeating is common, cooked and raw
-calorie recommendations are inflated
-much eating occurs for non nutritive reasons
-much eating occurs when not hungry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2012 03:13PM by fresh.

I was low-fat and low calorie for quite a while. Active too. The problem for me was that I bonked...big time. An interesting positive was that I went down to what I consider to be my most comfortable and natural weight (6'1" and 160 lbs.) and stayed there. There was no wasting away or emaciation.

Fresh, if you know it, do you mind sharing your height and weight on your current diet?

Right, but bonking does not mean it
Was caused by lowfat or cal

I am still of the opinion low calorie is not something that works longterm. It can often provide good results in the short term especially in regards to weight loss but eventually you will run short most likely.

If you are doing it for a longevity point of view in regards to the studies which show calorie restriction promoted longevity then even the mediterranean diet has shown to be better.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

if the calorie theory is true
then I should be more hungry

unless hunger is too vague of a cue when
one is eating just fruits and veg, no condiments
(virtually nobody does so, so there is little to draw from)

however, as i said, r blackman, and l lockman, and a couple others i have heard of have all claimed to do fine lower cal than recommended.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2012 06:58PM by fresh.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am still of the opinion low calorie is not
> something that works longterm. It can often
> provide good results in the short term especially
> in regards to weight loss but eventually you will
> run short most likely.
>

define low cal
i'm suggesting that most people overeat
much food is wasted and pushed out
and recommendations are inflated



> If you are doing it for a longevity point of view

doing it to find relationship between hunger and intake

I'm willing to listen to suggestions as to what it could have been. I admitted that I was active, running 20-30 miles a week and stretching with some light yoga. Otherwise, my lifestyle was incredibly chill. I was living for free with a well-off friend who paid for all my food (produce). I didn't even had a job. All I had to do was sleep, exercise, paint, meditate, make love, and go to the grocery. It's also true that I de-bonked after adding more fat and calories to my diet.

What are you weighing these days? Just curious to know what happens on 700 raw calories.


fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right, but bonking does not mean it
> Was caused by lowfat or cal



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2012 09:51PM by HH.

Could have been low cal but not likely lowfat imo
Or something else... I certainly dont have enuf info, only commented because people draw conclusions
That are invalid
x happened and y happened
So x caused y... Even tho Unknown z was the cause

120 5 7"

I agree. We do tend to simplify cause and effect, but that can go both ways. I felt amazing during that low fat/low calorie time (pre-bonking at least). Maybe I've wrongly attributed my happiness to diet? Or maybe diet was just one part of the equation.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could have been low cal but not likely lowfat imo
> Or something else... I certainly dont have enuf
> info, only commented because people draw
> conclusions
> That are invalid
> x happened and y happened
> So x caused y... Even tho Unknown z was the
> cause
>
> 120 5 7"

I recently attended a health conference. I was shocked to hear the recommendations of the speakers as they were the leaders and savers of health with the latest information. Most people there and the speakers looked a little sick (like a bad skin color, low energy, sick) even if they were doing this raw food thing lot longer than I. So my advice is to take the advice of experts with a grain of salt. Try it and compare. Experts are experts at defending their opinion and always being rationally "right." If you feel good, you are doing something right and that is the bottom line.

Fresh-

I'm also wondering if your current weight is where you've stabilized at 700 calories a day or if that's where you're at today as your body weight decreases. What did you weigh when you started at 700 daily calories?

too short of a time to be of anything definitive regarding weight.
weight was same after 10 days

<<<120 5 7">>>

Hey Gary,

Let’s take a look at 3 Scenarios…

Scenario #1:

Let’s assume that your Body Fat% is 5% making your BMR or RMR 1572 Calories a day where ~60% of those Calories are coming from Fat and the other 629 Calories are coming from Carbohydrates. Assuming you have No Activity and are resting all day long and you are following 811, 700 X 80% = 560 Calories, it is impossible to meet your Carbohydrate needs and Gluconeogenesis will kick in within 2 or 3 weeks, which means that you are going to start losing Lean Body Mass.

Scenario #2:

Now let’s assume that your Body Fat% is 15% making your BMR or RMR 1407 Calories a day. Using the same 60:40 Ratio, ~563 Calories are coming from Carbohydrates. If we once again assume that you are inactive all day long and you are following 811, you are just barely meeting your Carbohydrate needs.

Scenario #3:

Now let’s assume that your Body Fat% is 15%, but this time you are Active, but not aerobically and are burning another 500 Calories a day all of which are Carbohydrates. Now you are depleting your Carbohydrate Fuel Tank by ~500 Calories a day and within 3 days your Carbohydrate Fuel Tank will be EMPTY and Gluconeogenesis kicks in, which means there goes your Lean Body Mass.

So the key factor here is how active are you?

I encourage all of my students to invest in a scale that measures Body Fat % and especially Water %, but many of these scales will also keep track of your Muscle Mass% - some will even indicate how much Muscle Mass is in each limb. What is really interesting is that almost everyone I coach is below 50% Water where we need to be around 70%. Since you have been eating Raw for so long, I can’t believe that your Water % would be of any concern, but you want to protect your Lean Body Mass and if you are going to keep up with this experiment, I sure would want to do know if I’m eating away at my tissues!

Peace and Love..........John





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2012 02:15PM by John Rose.

thanks. some swimming running biking weight lifting, but not too much and not too long

again, it's mostly the hunger issue.
either hunger serves to maintain lbm or it doesn't
i'm just puzzled as to why it wouldn't.
but hunger can be a slippery thing
maybe i'll continue tracking for a month to see if
i am not hungry because of burning of fat and muscle stores

In reference to caloric needs, harris benedict formula is the basis for BMR and by extension to recommended maintenance calories for various activity levels is based upon

HEAT production of human subjects.

and it is an estimate based on a study of 136 persons.

katch mccardle is not much difference as per the results.

certainly a healthy raw foodist has lower heat production, for one thing.

secondly, heat production is not necessarily a good way to determine necessary food intake

real world evidence points to many people reporting eating low calories but not losing weight, and eating high calories and not gaining weight.

harris benedict
[www.pnas.org]

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

The HB formula overestimated REE 1) in each weight history group (by 160 ±125 kcals among never-overweight, 295 ±189 kcal among overweight, and 105 ±135 among weight-reduced)

I love sprouts! But don't do it enough unfortunately. Hope to change that really soon... everyone should be sprouting. there's so much life in it! haha.

I attempt to eat every 2-3 hrs if possible. Lately i've been trying to do well at food combining/mono meals. But I make huge salads as much as I can.

I start the day with 24-32oz of water, then either drink apple cider vinegar, or lemon juice. Then I hit the rebounder(minitrampoline) for 15-20 min, or work-out for 45 min. I take Magnesium(natural calm) and MSM powder...

I make protein shakes with a lot of difference conctions with hemp, pea, maca, bee pollen, tocotreniels... and i'll have some fruit in there as well.

I try to make a lot of green juices as well. I love the Lemon Ginger Blast!
Always 1/2 dark leafy greens and 1/2 fruit.

Also, been taking digestive enzymes before meals. I've been consuming a lot of Chia seeds as well... and probiotics at the end of the day.

I shoot for 3000 calories a day, but sometimes it's hard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 07:11AM by kevers59.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> and using a calculator online like
> [www.freedieting.com]
> r.htm
>
> what does it say for you?


I use chronometer, mainly because it is more detailed, and tick most boxes - the only things i have to supplement are zinc and calcium, plus I also take general multivitamin/mineral supplement which takes care of D, B12 and iron.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am still of the opinion low calorie is not
> something that works longterm. It can often
> provide good results in the short term especially
> in regards to weight loss but eventually you will
> run short most likely.
>
> If you are doing it for a longevity point of view
> in regards to the studies which show calorie
> restriction promoted longevity then even the
> mediterranean diet has shown to be better.
>
> [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Powerlifer, could you elaborate on mediterranean diet please or suggest a link etc? Being mediterranean i naturally love traditional food, but didn't know it had these properties.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

chat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > and using a calculator online like
> >
> [www.freedieting.com]
>
> > r.htm
> >
> > what does it say for you?
>
>
> I use chronometer, mainly because it is more
> detailed, and tick most boxes - the only things i
> have to supplement are zinc and calcium, plus I
> also take general multivitamin/mineral supplement
> which takes care of D, B12 and iron.


what i was asking was....

(after you stated that you ate 1200-1400 calories per day)

what is the recommended amount for your weight and activity?