Hi.

I only quote what he wrote. This is another quote related to animal protein.

"This is an important point, so stick with me while I explain: Many people imagine that egg white, chicken breast, or haddock are healthful foods because they are high in protein-but that very fact is what makes them undesirable. The less animal protein you consume, the lower your risk of kidney problems. You are much safer getting your protein from plant sources-beans, vegetables, and grains, for example."

Appreciate the time your taking to write them out .

Again another quote that brings me back to is there any evidence that sensible amounts of animal foods causes deterioration in kidney function. Ive sat for the past hour or so trying to find anything and i can't find much out width dietary modification in those with kidney disease which is more than understandable, but as to healthy individuals kidney function im not sure where he is getting his basis.

I can understand how an excessive intake of these foods could potentially cause problems by taxing the kidneys but again an excess of anything can potentially be bad, even water in large amounts can kill you. We can't conclude whether a food is bad because of some consuming excessive amounts.

Overall my opinion is that grains are some of the worst food group especially for those prone to intestinal issues such as leaky gut, which id theorize is a strong contributor in the rise of auto-immune diseases that we are seeing on the increase. These diseases simply didn't exist before agriculture and grains consumption. Personally grains messed my digestion big time, i cannot fathom why national dietary guidelines often recommend 7+ servings of whole grains a day.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi.
>
> I only quote what he wrote. This is another quote
> related to animal protein.
>
> "This is an important point, so stick with me
> while I explain: Many people imagine that egg
> white, chicken breast, or haddock are healthful
> foods because they are high in protein-but that
> very fact is what makes them undesirable. The less
> animal protein you consume, the lower your risk of
> kidney problems. You are much safer getting your
> protein from plant sources-beans, vegetables, and
> grains, for example."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2012 06:00PM by powerlifer.

Actually, he does not attack animal protein as much as animal fat. Either or, he thinks it is really bad for your health. He also writes about the causes of modern diabetes (like animal fat in type II and dairy products in type I).

Hes not got very much if any information backing up his animal protein/kidney stance by the looks of it though, as such hes not doing much to convince me.

Most of the studies above which i assume were all linked from his book weren't really anything to do with animal foods and kidney function minus one. Which id assume if it concluded that animal foods had caused a decline in healthy individuals kidney function that he would have been all over quoting it in his book to support his viewpoint. But without seeing the study its hard to tell. All it is, is a title of a study which is essentially useless.

Im interested in reading the book now lol, but i have too much to get through as it is.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2012 06:12PM by powerlifer.

It does have lots of studies about unhealthy animal fats (the Evil). Good book even if you are not diabetic, specially to learn about energy, how insulin works, and mitocondria.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It does have lots of studies about unhealthy
> animal fats (the Evil). Good book even if you are
> not diabetic, specially to learn about energy, how
> insulin works, and mitocondria.

Again id be interested in seeing the science, most of the studies i have read animal fats are little problem in moderate sensible amounts. Excessive intake again sure, but then carbohydrates are just as evil in this sense when consumed in excess and in relation to diabetes.

I take it his stance is low-fat?

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2012 06:24PM by powerlifer.

yes. He advocates alpha-linolenic acid and linoleic acid in fruits, vegetables and nuts. Avoid oils (salad dressings) and animal products as they are the cause of disease. He has a good track record and many followers.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes. He advocates alpha-linolenic acid and
> linoleic acid in fruits, vegetables and nuts.
> Avoid oils (salad dressings) and animal products
> as they are the cause of disease. He has a good
> track record and many followers.

Most of the benefits of these type of diets come from the increase in plant foods rather than the absence of major food groups. The same results could be had with a sensible balanced diet rather than extremely cutting out macronutrients such as fat and carbs. The above diet would be low in essential fatty acids i would reckon.

Many diets have improved glucose control like i see the excerpt for Bernard promoting the diet, but even the atkins diet has shown this and paleo even showed reversing of insulin resistance.

Anyway this has strayed abit off point for B12 but im not a great fan of low fat diets mainly because the research largely bases itself on that a high intake of fat or cholesterol is bad, so a low intake should be good. But low fat diets comes with there problems also.

[www.vegankkingdom.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2012 07:40PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for taking the time to write that out
> Panchito.
>
> None of the above suggests in anyway that meat
> causes a decline in kidney functioning healthy
> individuals though. Those with kidney disease is a
> different case but like i say there are plenty of
> plant foods that are contraindicated in kidney
> disease also in large amounts.
>
> Large amounts of protein will tax the kidneys
> regardless of source so what hes saying is abit of
> a swizz really, its just easier to do with animal
> foods because they are denser sources per weight.
>
>
> [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]


Hi Powerlifer

I can think of one way meat can reduce kidney function. It has to do with the long term effects of stimulating the nervous system with epinepherine that is naturally contained in factory farmed meats. Supplementing hormones over the long term is very dangerous as the respective endocrine gland becomes weak at producing its own hormones. Eating this meat containing epinepherine will weaken the adrenal glands and sympathetic nervous system over the long term. This will reduce kidney function.

Hey Workoutman,

Not seen you about in a while. I have heard this also, but can find no data as to the amount of epinephrine in meat if there is actually any at all.

I guess my point was that no research has found deteriorating kidney function from eating meat out width those with kidney disease.

But as always im interested in hearing others points of view and if there is any research please post it up.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

WorkoutMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks for taking the time to write that out
> > Panchito.
> >
> > None of the above suggests in anyway that meat
> > causes a decline in kidney functioning healthy
> > individuals though. Those with kidney disease is
> a
> > different case but like i say there are plenty
> of
> > plant foods that are contraindicated in kidney
> > disease also in large amounts.
> >
> > Large amounts of protein will tax the kidneys
> > regardless of source so what hes saying is abit
> of
> > a swizz really, its just easier to do with
> animal
> > foods because they are denser sources per
> weight.
> >
> >
> > [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]
>
>
> Hi Powerlifer
>
> I can think of one way meat can reduce kidney
> function. It has to do with the long term effects
> of stimulating the nervous system with
> epinepherine that is naturally contained in
> factory farmed meats. Supplementing hormones over
> the long term is very dangerous as the respective
> endocrine gland becomes weak at producing its own
> hormones. Eating this meat containing
> epinepherine will weaken the adrenal glands and
> sympathetic nervous system over the long term.
> This will reduce kidney function.

Alcoholism and heavy meat eating often go hand in hand. I don't need any data to convince me there is epinepherine in meat. Just my 2pence Chris.