So, I am learning through this process... of course it is ongoing.

I definitely do better with lo carb but not necessarily eating meat or fish. I need lower GI fruits and veggies or I am way off mentally.

Is there a way I can do this without going back to BTD?

Also, I cannot afford a blender and a food processor, so I need one or other. I think a food processor might work for me per Utopians suggestion)

Just curious if I can get some other thoughts on being low carb and vegan or am I reaching?

Thanks

What does low carb mean to you? I doubt it. Even a high-greens/sprouts diet with a lot of nuts and seeds and less sweet fruit would probably be moderate carb (assuming you're not starving yourself).

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does low carb mean to you? I doubt it. Even
> a high-greens/sprouts diet with a lot of nuts and
> seeds and less sweet fruit would probably be
> moderate carb (assuming you're not starving
> yourself).


Good question and I was actually thinking about this earlier.. I keep saying low carb, however, I would still eat at least 50-70 g per day. There was a time when I was down to about 10-20 per day and did not feel right at all.

I think it is just the fruit that is throwing me off. Perhaps if I eat fruit that is lower GI, I would feel better?

I would give it more time....personally.

Yes, I will give it time. I get frustrated when I feel so bloated and moody though... but my body needs to go through this and staying focused on the positive benefits will help my mind to adjust accordingly.

THANK YOU

michelemm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious if I can get some other thoughts on
> being low carb and vegan or am I reaching?
>
> Thanks

Many "academic" health gurus advocate a low carb diet. They think it protects you against cancer. But be careful with this type of gurus. Academic gurus stick and defend a theory till death because of their ego and image.

They would eat salads, green juices, etc. but their believe is against eating fruit (from fructuse studies on rats). I don't agree with this but in this diet world there are people with all types of ideas.

I don't believe in forming the majority of a diet around sugar or fruit, personally because i don't do well without adequate amounts of protein and fats.

But id rather get carbohydrates from natural fruits, vegetables, sweet potatoes, yams etc than eating grains or other refined sugar sources. Gluten containing grains ruined my digestion and health.

[www.veganingdom.co.uk]

A diet centered around fruit (sweet) can have adequate amounts of fat and protein, provided you eat your green leafy vegetables (as is advised), some nuts/seeds, and avocado or coconut, and enough calories.

But anyway, I'm wondering about the bloating - can you try eating one type of fruit at a time? WAiting 2 hours, and then another?

Like melon first thing
some bananas a few hours later
then pears
etc.

Michelle,

Welcome. You can certainly and should eat moderate to high carb. Of the three macronutrients, carbohydrates are the fuel that the body needs and burns cleanly (glucose). The key is to limit fat and enjoy whole food carbohydrates, preferably raw. Fruits (sweet and unsweet) as well as some starchy vegetables along with sprouted legumes (chickpeas, lentils, mung beans, adzuki beans) can provide the bulk of calories. Lots of people here are on a low fat raw vegan diet (LFRV) and many have experienced tremendous personal benefit from it. Food combining is both a subject for discussion and personal exploration. Many do what are called monomeals eating just one fruit per meal.

I think the idea is that fruit is the most easily digested food (what they have you break a water fast with). And just having one type is the most gentle. Once your system has acclimated, you can make your own call. While I don't subscribe to food combining theory, I agree if you benefit from it it's hard to argue with personal experience. Be sure to get the best of fruits: berries, pomegranate, citrus, and melons. Apples to be sure.

I hope you fare well. And I'm sure we will be talking. Paul

I came across a study exerpt in a magazine today which claimed:

A study published in the journal Cancer Epidemiology has demonstrated that high glycaemic index foods can actually accelerate the growth of tumours and cancer cells. High glycaemic index foods such as refined carbohydrates cause blood sugar levels to increase rapidly.

The study which examined the dietary habits of over 1800 Mexican woman, found that those who gained 57% or more of their total energy intake from carbohydrates demonstrated a 220% higher risk of breast cancer than women with more balanced diets.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

PowerL, I've heard about similar studies.

Well, you also have that reports everyday saying that the healthiest people on earth eat tons of fruit. But those people don't make the news. It is all mixed. You have psycology, lifestyle, chemistry, etc. It is almost impossible to tell if one element trigers cancer because cancer may be based on conditions. I've also read about people curing themselves from cancer eating nothing but fruit. You also have theories challenging the definition that cancer is a disease. They say it is the body trying to cure itself from an unrecognized condition. You got the monkeys eating nothing but fruit (as opposed to rats in a lab). pretty sure next week there will be new studies contradicting the studies of tis week. We are nothing. we are everyting. It is all about the point of view.

For my own personal use, I'd love to see a legitimate, scientific study which says that "the healthiest people on earth eat tons of fruit." Not saying it doesn't exist. Just curious.

Problem with studies is they require funding. Packaged food companies and animal-abuse industries gladly shell out of the money, but fruit companies? Doubt it.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Problem with studies is they require funding.
> Packaged food companies and animal-abuse
> industries gladly shell out of the money, but
> fruit companies? Doubt it.


Exactly. Everything is about the money. However, my friends on the BTD keep telling me that this is why there is not research studies on the btd? It kind of makes sense if we are talking about money.

Thank you for your thoughts. I am trying to think of my health in the long run, and what I have noticed is I am much CALMER without any fish, chick or tofu. Now, I need to find out what will make me have enmough energy to feel good. I am sure the carbs will do it, but I think I just need to go slow with the carbs since I was deprived for so long. My mind/body is scared of them...


pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Michelle,
>
> Welcome. You can certainly and should eat
> moderate to high carb. Of the three
> macronutrients, carbohydrates are the fuel that
> the body needs and burns cleanly (glucose). The
> key is to limit fat and enjoy whole food
> carbohydrates, preferably raw. Fruits (sweet and
> unsweet) as well as some starchy vegetables along
> with sprouted legumes (chickpeas, lentils, mung
> beans, adzuki beans) can provide the bulk of
> calories. Lots of people here are on a low fat
> raw vegan diet (LFRV) and many have experienced
> tremendous personal benefit from it. Food
> combining is both a subject for discussion and
> personal exploration. Many do what are called
> monomeals eating just one fruit per meal.
>
> I think the idea is that fruit is the most easily
> digested food (what they have you break a water
> fast with). And just having one type is the most
> gentle. Once your system has acclimated, you can
> make your own call. While I don't subscribe to
> food combining theory, I agree if you benefit from
> it it's hard to argue with personal experience.
> Be sure to get the best of fruits: berries,
> pomegranate, citrus, and melons. Apples to be
> sure.
>
> I hope you fare well. And I'm sure we will be
> talking. Paul

Ohh im not against eating fruit Panchito, infact i eat alot of fruit and it is a good source of carbohydrates. Id rather get my carbs from natural sources such as fruit, vegetables, sweet potatoes etc than eating grains or other refined sugar sources.

But this isn't the only study which shows high sugar diets aren't healthy. People also tend to take these studies out of context, the study didn't suggest that eating fruit was bad or even carbohydrates.

What it did show us was, that eating more than 50% of our calories from carbohydrates can increase cancer risk, aswell as other diseases such as diabetes.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2012 08:44AM by powerlifer.

No,the study did not show what u said
Because you use the word carbohydrates.
The study may have shown that
people eating x is assoc with y
Under z conditions

U generalize and overextend based
On invalid labeling

You are happy to use science when it supports your own ideals Fresh.

It is only one study but there are multiple more showing the adverse effects of high sugar diets. We are starting to see high sugar raw foodists with increased levels of triglycerides which is alarming considering most of these people are following a low fat approach.

High sugar diets longterm can increase blood triglyceride levels which increases your risk of heart disease and can be a sign of metabolic syndrome, not only that but it wears out the pancreas eventually causing blood sugar issues. A moderate consumption of carbohydrates is a more sensible approach, serious athletes will tend to get away with high carbohydrate consumption because they will burn it off.

But someone relatively average who doesn't exercise intensely daily will not use the excess sugar and this is where problems begin, not only with weight gain but issues with blood sugar and the development of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2012 01:30PM by powerlifer.

If u have a high sugar raw diet study
I would love to see it.
Otherwise for our purposes your "carb"
Generalization is invalid

I would also like a raw reference on ur trigliceride
Statement as clearly there is a difference
Between cooked and raw.

Yes, I employ selection bias as most of us do, unfortunately

What I do suspect is that u could be right
But only in relation to overeating.
I see no evidence that high fruit in and of itself
And neg outcomes.

Getting your sugar from fruit is undoubtably more healthy than getting it from a refined white sugar source. But sugar is sugar and we know that an excess of it taken chronically will raise blood triglyceride levels regardless of the source, which like i say does come with an increased risk of heart disease.

I know quite a few high sugar raw foodists personally who have developed increased triglyceride levels in as little as 8 months following the diet. It is also beginning to pop up on many of the raw forums people having increased blood triglyceride readings which they didn't have before, i suspect we will begin to see more of this issue popping up. Like i say most of these people are following a low fat approach so it has to be the excessive sugar intake raising these triglyceride levels.

These high sugar raw diets are in there infancy, even most of the gurus following these type of diets have only been eating this way for 3-4 years. I suspect we will begin to see more of the raw veterans reverting to including cooked food due to problems with the diet.

This doesn't mean carbs are bad and to start a low carb diet either. A moderate intake depending on activity level is healthy for most. Some people will do better on lower or higher carbohydrate diets, often in relation to their activity levels.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2012 02:03PM by powerlifer.

the studies do not show the cause of cancer. So, it is true that in Some people, eating a high carb diet May cause cancer. Our body works by chemistry, reactions, etc, more so than by quantifiable amounts of phisical matter. Meaning that chemical reactions are not easy to measure and so, the cause of many problems like cancer becomes a witch hunt subject to the interpretations of the person making the questions. This, when acompanied with the need to show results in studies can lead to speculations and myths.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2012 02:05PM by Panchito.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the studies do not show the cause of cancer. So,
> it is true that in Some people, eating a high carb
> diet May cause cancer. Our body works by
> chemistry, reactions, etc, more so than by
> quantifiable amounts of phisical matter. Meaning
> that chemical reactions are not easy to measure
> and so, the cause of many problems like cancer
> becomes a witch hunt subject to the
> interpretations of the person making the
> questions. This, when acompanied with the need to
> show results in studies can lead to speculations
> and myths.

Agreed, but what these studies are showing is that sugar in any form increases the growth of cancer cells and tumours, which is a serious issue considering many diets are excessively rich in carbohydrates.

There is a fair amount of solid research on this from what ive read so far. In my opinion it would make sense to keep carbohydrate intake moderate from the current research, especially if you have a family history of cancer.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2012 02:11PM by powerlifer.

Again, no it is not "regardless of the source"

Unless u are going to show it. Ive not seen it.

And regarding triglycerides, show the data.

People say a lot of things.
Even when clement did blood test of a board member
Here yrs ago, and pointed out "deficiencies"
His analysis was bunk as I checked the numbers.
He had an agenda.

Check google for sugar and cancer cells to get a whole number of different studies from fructose in fruit to isolated fructose from high fructose corn syrup which is obviously miles away, sugar period is needed by healthy cells but it is also used for growth by cancer cells, this is well documented.

Regarding triglycerides this is also basic biology and nutrition that high carbohydrate diets increase triglyceride levels. Again it only takes a 2 second search to find numerous unbiased sources.

This doesn't mean low carb is healthy either, there shouldn't need to be an excessive consumption of any food group in a diet. Gorging on endless amounts of sugar just to fill your calories isn't healthy or balanced. Are people really suggesting that high sugar diets are good for health?

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2012 02:46PM by powerlifer.

I asked for raw related studies.
they dont exist.

According to you, and cancer,we should not eat
Anything with sugar,even though u are,
And non fruit is also converted to sugar
And we run on sugar.
So what would we eat exactly?
If u say,some fruit,how do u know you're
Not eating too much?

U cannot understand any answer to ur last question
As long as u characterize food as
"sugar" "fats" and "protein"

I certainly respect that ur doin what makes sense
For you based on ur experience.

Its just that u and billings, et al, had an experience
And have drawn conclusions that may not be valid
Due to factors not considered.

This is evidenced by stories of those who have
Had symptoms like u and have come out the other
side.

Ohh here we go again. I purposely ended two of my posts with the statement that going low carb isn't healthy either, so please don't make out like i am promoting to go low carb or no fruit because im not.

I already stated three times that a moderate intake of carbs is probably the best way to go for the majority in my opinion, but i don't believe excessively gorging on sugar and fruit to be healthy or what constituents as a balanced diet.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2012 03:41PM by powerlifer.

Gotcha. I was just trying to
Figure out if sugar feeds cancer cells
Then what the suggestion would be.
Maybe breatharianism.

U cant just say low fruit.
non fruits are converted to sugar
Which feeds all cells too

The answer is that we can't avoid sugar like you say, the best idea for the majority would be to consume a moderate carbohydrate diet which would suffice for average person energy needs. A moderate carbohydrate diet is getting about 40 percent of your intake from carbs or sugars.

The healthiest sources in my opinion are fruits, vegetables, starchy vegetables such as sweet potato which remain fairly low GI but are a good source of carbs and yams.

The problem of sugar feeding cancer cells is only really a problem in those with excessive sugar intake. Which is all the more reason for a more balanced diet.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2012 04:21PM by powerlifer.

Now, I am totally confused.. so, do I listen to my body and not eat alot of fruit or skip it if it makes me feel shaky?

michelemm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now, I am totally confused.. so, do I listen to my
> body and not eat alot of fruit or skip it if it
> makes me feel shaky?

Its good to see both side of the coins like i say. Many are overly pro fruit on here and can't accept that any bad can come from consuming it.

But there are many who don't tolerate fruit well due to digestive issues and poor blood sugar regulation for example. If fruit is making you shakey then i would go for the lower gi fruits such as berries in the meantime personally, alot of people have problems with the higher sugar tropical fruits such as banana and watermelons.

I can consume all the fruit in the world now at one sitting with no problems. But a few years back even one full watermelon would leave me shakey, panicky and weird feeling.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2012 04:28PM by powerlifer.