I don't follow Keven Gianni and his wife's Youtubers so I was not aware that they gave birth recently. However, I just came about this blog post of his and found it quite interesting and refreshingly honest.

[renegadehealth.com]

One thing I thought a bit amusing was when he said (in response to the babies of healthy weight who are from supposedly raw mothers) that people may LIE about their diets. I will admit, I sometimes find it hard to imagine that babies (and adults) could look so full-faced on so little food and calories.

Do you know of any children who are 100% raw and do you think it's wise to raise young children with this diet?

Uhm, most kids who are breastfed are raw til 1 year to 2 years. so.....uhm, weird question. Unless they're formula fed and using cooked formula, I think all babies are raw. Do you mean toddlers?

Children cannot be raised raw vegan because they need many conditionally essential nutrients in full form such as taurine.

Not only that but Vitamin D and B12 are also other potentially major issues for a growing child.

What they mean by raw is no breastmilk,they use raw vegan baby formula recipes, which are not nutritionally complete for a child.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2012 11:07AM by powerlifer.

After reading the book I linked below, I have no problem with anyone who goes omnivore before, during, and after pregnancy. My partner has already told me that if we ever have a kid she's going to eat like Gianni's wife ate through the whole process. That's fine. Common sense should tell anyone that pregnancy is a massive nutrient drain on the body.

[www.amazon.com]



banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't follow Keven Gianni and his wife's
> Youtubers so I was not aware that they gave birth
> recently. However, I just came about this blog
> post of his and found it quite interesting and
> refreshingly honest.
>
> [renegadehealth.com]
> w-food-baby
>
> One thing I thought a bit amusing was when he said
> (in response to the babies of healthy weight who
> are from supposedly raw mothers) that people may
> LIE about their diets. I will admit, I sometimes
> find it hard to imagine that babies (and adults)
> could look so full-faced on so little food and
> calories.
>
> Do you know of any children who are 100% raw and
> do you think it's wise to raise young children
> with this diet?

i have 4 kids. 1 is 6 years old. two are 3, and one is 5 months old. They are all 100% raw vegan. I take them to the doctor regularly just to prove they have no nutrient deficiencies. It is wise to not read information to find truths. It is more wise to actually go out and DO IT myself. My kids are not starved for calories, or nutrients. Not sure why anyone worries about all these factors so much. Usually it is the people that stay on the fence that talk all the jive!! most people who are 100% don't have skepticisms because they realize how easy it is to tune ones diet to their needs. it is absurd and stupid to assume we can't get enough nutrients from raw food. Raw food has multiple times the nutrient levels of cooked foods. Cooked food is addictive, plain and simple. People will argue their addictions to the grave but that doesn't make it right or accurate. Try raising kids raw, then you can unload accurate information on people.
It is a god damned disservice to humanity to feed kids cooked foods. They are so innocent and can't help what gets put into their mouths. So parents who learn about nutrition should take the leap for sure to feed their kids raw! My kids are so happy and smart and energetic and NON ADD like. Kids in my daughters 1st grade class are all jacked up on cereal crap and can hardly pay attention.
have faith in the earth as it was created. Fire is something we don't need. just an addiction.
also, my kids take in TONS of calories, in fact I have to moderate their intake. Things like almond butter and other high calorie foods can be used wisely to increase calories when needed. The core of the diet should be high nutrient, lower calorie foods such as salad greens. and lots of fruit, but with the use of some seeds and nuts it would be impossible to have deficient kids.

Raw Lion, I love it! Love your passion and it resonates with me. As long as you are monitoring their development, I feel that you are 100% correct. The obsession with nutrients does seem over the top and given the denatured diet of SAD-ers (supplemented with inorganic minerals and dead vitamins), why would we follow that mess?

I do believe that Keven Gianni is very vibrant-looking, for what it's worth. And they apparently eat a whole foods diet, which is not the same as SAD. I don't feel that kids need meat, though. Or expecting mothers, for that matter.

Utopian Life, you are correct. I was gonna change it to specify toddlers and beyond, but I figured that you guys would get where I was coming from.

If I were a parent, I would feed my kids a balanced, whole food diet. They'll have plenty of time to decide what's perfectly healthy for them when they're out of my care. Children just pass through us. They're not here for us to inflict our weirdness on.

And by the way, I eat tons of raw vegan foods and promote them all the time. Almost NO ONE on this board is 100%.

SAD diet shouldn't mean that we have to go to the complete other end of the spectrum and provide a diet so pure that it is void of many essential nutrients.

Especially conditionally essential nutrients which are essential for a growing child. But i am not a parent, so really my input is nothing more than suggestion.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

My babes weren't fat when they were born, some babies are really chunky right from the get go. But they had nice little rolls and chunky cheeks during the first year when they were exclusively breast fed and were certainly healthy looking beyond that. I tend to nearly all raw for a dietary start with babes, they didn't get much cooked food until later on.
If I were raising raw vegan children you can bet I'd be supplementing B12. No way I'd take a chance on that for some dogmatic ideals, nuh uh.

Your children were exclusively breastfed for an entire year, did I understand you correctly?

The boy very close to that yes, he had nothing more than the occasional taste of food after 6 months and around a year I started to give him one small serving of food daily. He was a heavy nurser from the start, put on wieght the first week which is very rare. He would have nursed forever, that one, but I had enough after 3.5 years. The girl was interested in food a little earlier than that but the caloric percentage from other than my milk was very low, negligable. All they did was taste.

Right on rawlion.

How sad that raw is considered weird,esp from someone here.

Taurine? Come on now plifer

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right on rawlion.
>
> How sad that raw is considered weird,esp from
> someone here.

----------
Right! hahah Unless cooked food is "weirdness" "inflicted" upon children as well, then I don't see the relevance of the post. *eyeroll*. I'd say feeding people all of these processed, high-sugar, and omnivorous foods is an experiment that is failing. More raw fruits & veggies, some nuts & seeds, the better, IMO. Supplement or get sunlight for vitamin D, sublingual for everyone for B12.

I didn't mean "weirdness" like that. No need to attack. I should have used quotes to indicate that I was speaking in the language of others. I was being cheeky, sarcastic, whatever you want to call it. What I mean is that the diet can be marginalizing, lonely, and require a lot of courage to maintain. It's much more than just a diet. You could say that about any diet that's non-standard. To place a child in that position of taking on the vegan's social burden without ever asking them is not something that I would do. Maybe you would, I wouldn't. I would prefer to be an example and allow them to gravitate to it on their own if they chose. Did I ever say that I would feed them twinkies and gatorade? NO.

HH, you are right about most people not being 100% and I am sure not advocating for or against however if Raw Lion is doing it successfully, who are we to argue? I respect parents who either choose to feed cooked, and/or animal products to their children or supplement out of concern for their wellbeing.

However, Coco, I was referring to the MOTHER'S diet and the baby's birth weight. So were you 100% raw during your pregnancies? From your comments, I sure doubt it. If you were eating nori sauerkraut wraps and coconut water almost exlcusively throughout your pregnancy and your kid came out at 9 lbs., I would be shocked LOL

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't mean "weirdness" like that. No need to
> attack. I should have used quotes to indicate that
> I was speaking in the language of others. I was
> being cheeky, sarcastic, whatever you want to call
> it. What I mean is that the diet can be
> marginalizing, lonely, and require a lot of
> courage to maintain. It's much more than just a
> diet. You could say that about any diet that's
> non-standard. To place a child in that position of
> taking on the vegan's social burden without ever
> asking them is not something that I would do.
> Maybe you would, I wouldn't. I would prefer to be
> an example and allow them to gravitate to it on
> their own if they chose. Did I ever say that I
> would feed them twinkies and gatorade? NO.

fair enough, but you can say the same thing about all kinds of parental choices that are potential social burdens


the problem with allowing them to gravitate is that cooked is addicting.

so it's a tough thing to deal with either way.

I don't know. I've never seen any hard scientific proof that a plate of steamed vegetables is somehow more addictive than raw vegetables. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just haven't come across it. Care to provide some? I'm not even sure what you mean by "addictive." Physical dependence and withdrawal symptoms? Is that what you mean? If I consume anything nearly every day of my life, yeah, I expect to go through a period of adjustment that might not be pleasant when I stop consuming it. It might also be euphoric. That doesn't mean that I'm experiencing the delerium tremens or even mental irritation from an addictive substance. Besides, aren't humans naturally addicted to food because of our dependence on it for survival? If we go without food, we enter a pretty drastic reaction called death.

My philosophy with children, or anyone for that matter, is that teachings will be more lasting with them if they learn through example instead of force. Let them choose their own way by observing and experiencing different ways and the people who live them. Trying to make them little mirrors of mom and dad never works with born free-spirits, which is what most children are. Sure, I would teach them basic politeness, respect for animals, nature, and people, conflict resolution, good habits, etc., but forcing my diet or politics or anything like that on them is not my style. It lacks magic.


fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I didn't mean "weirdness" like that. No need to
> > attack. I should have used quotes to indicate
> that
> > I was speaking in the language of others. I was
> > being cheeky, sarcastic, whatever you want to
> call
> > it. What I mean is that the diet can be
> > marginalizing, lonely, and require a lot of
> > courage to maintain. It's much more than just a
> > diet. You could say that about any diet that's
> > non-standard. To place a child in that position
> of
> > taking on the vegan's social burden without
> ever
> > asking them is not something that I would do.
> > Maybe you would, I wouldn't. I would prefer to
> be
> > an example and allow them to gravitate to it on
> > their own if they chose. Did I ever say that I
> > would feed them twinkies and gatorade? NO.
>
> fair enough, but you can say the same thing about
> all kinds of parental choices that are potential
> social burdens
>
>
> the problem with allowing them to gravitate is
> that cooked is addicting.
>
> so it's a tough thing to deal with either way.

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Let them choose their own way by observing
> and experiencing different ways and the people who
> live them. Trying to make them little mirrors of
> mom and dad never works with born free-spirits

--------
Well, at first I thought your objection to feeding children raw vegan food exclusively was that they would be perceived as "weird." Now it's a matter of them choosing their own diet and being born free. Or maybe it's both in your mind. Are you suggesting then that parents who choose to feed their children omnivorous food have removed the choice as well, or do your opinions vary depending on degrees of indoctrination to what society deems as "normal"?

So HH, if you took your kids to the grocery store and they wanted Capt'n Crunch, you'd pitch it into the cart?

That reminds me...saw a hilarious new video by Matt and Angela. They took Oria to a supermarket for the first time and Matt grabs a box of sugary cereal (was it Fruit Loops?) and says the cardboard is more nutritious and actually rips off the box top and stuffs it into his mouth! Oria is looking at him (and the box) like everything is bonkers.[www.youtube.com]

This is a quote of mine from my second post in this thread:

"If I were a parent, I would feed my kids a balanced, whole food diet."

Another quote from another one of my posts:

"Did I ever say that I would feed them twinkies and gatorade? NO."

You're not even reading what I write.


banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So HH, if you took your kids to the grocery store
> and they wanted Capt'n Crunch, you'd pitch it into
> the cart?
>
> That reminds me...saw a hilarious new video by
> Matt and Angela. They took Oria to a supermarket
> for the first time and Matt grabs a box of sugary
> cereal (was it Fruit Loops?) and says the
> cardboard is more nutritious and actually rips off
> the box top and stuffs it into his mouth! Oria is
> looking at him (and the box) like everything is
> bonkers.[www.youtube.com]
> &list=UUPW4dz9AgWji2kFW--wIqMA&index=1&feature=plc
> p

I honestly don't understand your question.


Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Let them choose their own way by observing
> > and experiencing different ways and the people
> who
> > live them. Trying to make them little mirrors
> of
> > mom and dad never works with born free-spirits
>
> --------
> Well, at first I thought your objection to feeding
> children raw vegan food exclusively was that they
> would be perceived as "weird." Now it's a matter
> of them choosing their own diet and being born
> free. Or maybe it's both in your mind. Are you
> suggesting then that parents who choose to feed
> their children omnivorous food have removed the
> choice as well, or do your opinions vary depending
> on degrees of indoctrination to what society deems
> as "normal"?

Oh, ok, sorry. I'm going to bed.

<<<Sure, I would teach them basic politeness, respect for animals, nature, and people, conflict resolution, good habits, etc., but forcing my diet or politics or anything like that on them is not my style>>>

If you wouldn't force your diet on them and they CHOSE some junk when you were at the store, would you or would you not let them have it? It's really not a very out-there question, when you think about it. It's pretty possible.

My feeling is that parents are guides. It's the job of parents to lead their children as best they can. If I had children, I would definitely have them 100% raw for at least 2 years. It's so easy to mash a banana, avocado (not to mention breast milk), raw applesauce...Very young children don't seem to eat very much and yet parents want to cram all sorts of dense foods down their throats when they can barely even walk. It makes me batty when I see kids with only a few teeth gnawing on a bagel.

However, when they are a bit older I am not in favor of being militant about it, so I agree with you there, HH. Allowing them to have whole foods that MAY be cooked sounds pretty responsible.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right on rawlion.
>
> How sad that raw is considered weird,esp from
> someone here.
>
> Taurine? Come on now plifer

Raw food is not considered weird, living solely off raw food could be perceived that way and becoming so fearful of cooked food that you'd provide a child with a diet which is missing essential nutrients for growth.

Taurine although considered an conditionally essential nutrient for adults, is considered essential for growing children as such it must be provided in full form, one nutrient you are not going to get from a strict raw vegan diet.

If you feel that children don't need this nutrient then id love to hear why fresh or where its going to be found on a raw vegan diet in full form.

Vitamin D and B12 are other nutrients of worry, where is a growing child going to get these from, from the air just like Doug Graham does lol?. A newborn child will not be exposed to decent levels of sunlight daily. We've already had some raw baby deaths posted up on the forum from vitamin D deficiency.

It does worry me how little some know about nutrition and are willing to use their children as some new age experiment with a diet which is purely in its infancy.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2012 09:23AM by powerlifer.

If they had their own money, they could buy whatever they want. I wouldn't be spending my money on it though. I'd also let them know that they better have some spare cash to pay for the dentist visits and whatever other medical costs they'd likely incur from taking on a refined sugar habit.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
> If you wouldn't force your diet on them and they
> CHOSE some junk when you were at the store, would
> you or would you not let them have it? It's really
> not a very out-there question, when you think
> about it. It's pretty possible.

Powerlifer,
aka tom billings JR
It is pointless for me to spend any further
Time discussing these matters with you.
You may continue your invalid fearmongering
Without me.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Powerlifer,
> aka tom billings JR
> It is pointless for me to spend any further
> Time discussing these matters with you.
> You may continue your invalid fearmongering
> Without me.

Lol typical of someone who can't debate their own ideals fresh, resorting to pettyness.

typical BS dogma where your not aloud to say an opinion on raw unless its a positive one. I will leave you guys to it.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2012 02:43PM by powerlifer.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Powerlifer,
> aka tom billings JR
> It is pointless for me to spend any further
> Time discussing these matters with you.
> You may continue your invalid fearmongering
> Without me.

Also stop engaging in conversation i.e by constantly quoting my posts if you do not want to enter into debates or conversation with myself.

Seems like common sense, then you don't need to resort to the petty name calling because i have a different opinion on nutrition to yourself.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2012 02:55PM by powerlifer.

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know. I've never seen any hard scientific
> proof that a plate of steamed vegetables is
> somehow more addictive than raw vegetables. I'm
> not saying it doesn't exist, just haven't come
> across it. Care to provide some? I'm not even sure
> what you mean by "addictive." Physical dependence
> and withdrawal symptoms? Is that what you mean?


i mean addictive in a weak sense, in that we are driven to eat
more of it than we otherwise would.

i would say steamed vegetables may be for some

of course if salt or anything added, then yes

and steamed tubers and many other things, yes i would say
addictive in the sense above.


regarding gianni

>The reason I say it’s an experiment is because no human society — before we could corral fire — has ever eaten all raw.

if it was before we could corral fire,
then how were we cooking ?
and how would he know?


>So, that to me indicates that if you’re doing the raw food thing, you are doing an experiment on yourself

cooked is the experiment.


>— which in many ways I support deeply. What’s important is that you see it as >this — something you’re doing for yourself that may or may not have positive long >term results.

cooked has positive long term results?


>Long term raw fooders tend to have health issues, just like anyone else in our culture. Their teeth fall out — maybe even more so than people who eat a poor diet — they have hormone issues, they get batty, and they tend to be more agitated.


??????????



of course gianni did and should do what he feels best


but he's another fear promoter
misstating facts and distorting



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2012 02:57PM by fresh.