[shazzie.com]

Granted, it's a bit controversial to some raw fooders and/or vegans, but I think it's a healthy exploration. Basically, after decades of veganism, Shazzie ate some sheep cheese and it didn't resonate with her. She wanted to see if the reason she became a vegan was valid.

Why am I posting this? Because there are those of us who really want to be high-raw at the very least but may feel intimidated by "purists" of either the raw or vegan variety. I am very much into animal rights. However, I have never been swayed by the theory that humans are not supposed to partake in any animal products whatsoever (although it should always be a humane source of course).

This is not meant as advocating for eating animal products. After all, Shazzie decided not to continue eating sheep cheese and I have become less and less enamored by the prospect of animal products myself. I just found it interesting, especially when she updates her daughter's current diet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2012 09:30PM by banana who.

LOL! Edited to write SHEEP cheese. I am so used to saying SHEEPLE on the Internets...LMAO

First, I must say that I'm a fan of your posts because you're not afraid to speak your mind, even if the ideas are controversial.

Second, I agree that the "purity for the sake of purity" mindset isn't very productive--we should be able to be personally behind any decision we make, and if a little experimentation will do the trick, or if only taking steps WHEN and IF you're ready will do the trick, I say go for it.

[fresherthanlife.com]

The purity aspect is purely orthorexia for some. As someone who has suffered mild orthorexia in the past, albeit not to the same degree as many raw foodists ive come across.

When i had orthorexia it wasn't even known as a condition, it was simply viewed as an extreme obsession with dietary purity.

Ive never gone as far as to consider wholefoods such as nuts or onions as toxic though. Being addicted to junk food was what caused mild orthorexia for me. I think Shazzie has a fairly balanced view i.e not being dogmatic. Orthorexia and eating disorders are extremely mentally taxing.

The ever lasting search of purity will drive you from a vegetarian diet, to a cooked vegan diet, then you go raw. But then even raw food isn't enough so you go 80/10/10, then 80/10/10 isn't cleansing or pure enough for you, so you remove all overt fats. Then even that diet isn't pure enough so you start to make the transition to a liquidarian lifestyle. This is the last step before you become a breatharian and live off the suns detoxing energy. I joke but sadly you can see this transition in many raw foodists. The quest for purity can and will kill you if you take it too far.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2012 12:01PM by powerlifer.

"Animal rights" has really lost its meaning because people who eat animal products are starting to call themselves animal rights activists. If a person is eating animal products and claiming to be concerned about the welfare of exploited animals, then that is an animal welfare advocate, which is very different.

I'm not sure if people realize that even on "humane" farms and with products labelled humane, free range, grass-fed, etc. we are talking about murder. All male chicks born into the egg industry are put into industrial blenders or suffocated in bags. Even if a person has their own hen and uses those eggs, the place that bred the hens killed the male chicks. This is because they have no use for those males because they're different than male chicks used for meat (which are made to grow abnormally large and fast.)

Also, males born to dairy cows are sold to the veal industry. All dairy cows end up in the same slaughterhouse as cows used for meat when they're done breeding. Cows are very maternal and mourn when their offspring are taken from them.

Humane murder and animal exploitation is really an oxymoron. The animal welfare movement has only misled people into believing animals are treated well and then quickly killed or something. It's really not like that at all. Even if it were (hypothetically), forcibly impregnating sentient beings, taking the offspring so humans can have the milk/cheese/dairy, killing them isn't part of animal rights.

Raw Please, thank you for taking the time to state that! It is something I needed to read. Believe it or not, I have not heard anyone give as detailed an explanation of what can happen to these animals. However, I have a question to you: what about goat milk products? I have heard that even non-organic goat milk may be okay because it's not on the scale of cow milk production and probably is humane, as well as not containing hormones. Have you heard anything about the male goats and how they are treated? I am wondering if there is anywhere where the males are kept on the farm (maybe to weed fields?).

Thanks fresherthanlife and powerlifer--agree with your statement, also.

I've recently gone back to checking into Shazzie's blog regularily. She was the raw celeb that got me into this lifestyle--I stumbled across her previous blog a few years ago and spent a weekend reading about ten years' worth of entries, and was convinced to give it a try! I too value her sensible "personalize-it" approach to diet and lifestyle. Also, her new TV show on the U.K.'s The Active Channel is interesting; lots of easy and quick gourmet cooking and nutrition insights.

RawPlease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> All male chicks born into the egg industry
> are put into industrial blenders or suffocated in
> bags. Even if a person has their own hen and uses
> those eggs, the place that bred the hens killed
> the male chicks. This is because they have no use
> for those males because they're different than
> male chicks used for meat (which are made to grow
> abnormally large and fast.)


I took up chicken-rearing so that my husband could have eggs to eat, which he craved, and I didn't like the ones from the store as they were cruelly produced.

I buy heirloom breeds of chicks, which are not sexed. That means when I order a dozen chicks from the hatchery, I might get at least half males. They just grab the chicks, stick them in the box, and the purchaser is stuck with whatever the hen to rooster ratio is. I let them all live until they die of old age.

When I stand in front of the throne of judgment I hope to get an "E" for effort, anyway.

<3 Horsea <3

Horsea, why do you buy dozens of chicks at a time? Do they have a short life? And what do you do with the males (besides perhaps using them as breeders)? If they can mate with the females, wouldn't that stop your need to re-order? They passed an ordinance allowing chicken coops in suburbia recently but I believe that the males are not allowed due to the noise factor. LOL- in my last town I woke up one morning to a surreal experience of crowing and discovered that a neighbor had some chickens! Someone else must have complained because eventually they were gone.

Raw Please I think you need to look at the big picture of the planet before you start criticising others. We have the crew of the Sea Shepherd going into the Antarctic and risking their lives to save the whales and if they eat some animal products to keep them warm then are they a lesser person than you?
Dianna Fossey gave her life so the mountain gorrilas could have some hope of survival. It's ok to sit comfortably in your own home and have a holier than thou attitude but that's living in a fantasy world. There are many serious issues that need to be addressed on this planet that are being addressed by people who don't fit into your paradigm and giving their lives for it - like the activists trying to save the Amazon forest.


This isn't a personal attack on you, just a general view of things.

Yeah, we used to actually have to work in order to be a hero. Now all we have to do is eliminate a food group from our diet. I know I'm not about to go tell the carnivores who toil at my local animal shelter that they don't care about animals. Humanity evolves over time. If you're not happy that a huge amount of people have eliminated factory-farmed animals from their diet over the last 5 years while hugely increasing their organic produce consumption, you're just not seeing the big picture. Let's praise people for their positive actions and encourage them to continue heading in the same direction.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Horsea, why do you buy dozens of chicks at a time?
> Do they have a short life? And what do you do with
> the males (besides perhaps using them as
> breeders)? If they can mate with the females,
> wouldn't that stop your need to re-order? They
> passed an ordinance allowing chicken coops in
> suburbia recently but I believe that the males are
> not allowed due to the noise factor. LOL- in my
> last town I woke up one morning to a surreal
> experience of crowing and discovered that a
> neighbor had some chickens! Someone else must have
> complained because eventually they were gone.

Hi. I don't buy dozens of chicks at once. Okay, the very first year I took up chicken rearing, I did order 3 dozen, of which a little less than half were hens. I ordered that many because I was new to this and didn't know how to go about it, how long the hens would last, etc. I had way, way too many eggs so gave some away to unappreciative neighbors. Having all those roosters did cause problems for the hens, too. I had to isolate some of them.

Regarding the mating with the hens - that's the only thing they seem to want to do - that, and eat. Yes, the eggs are fertile but it is not often that the hens actually "go broody", i.e., sit on eggs for 3 weeks to produce baby chicks. Some breeds are more likely to do so than others, but I've never tracked it too much. Over a dozen years, I've had maybe a dozen or so chicks born that way.

As to longevity of my hens, they usually last 4 - 6 years of age. However, before I made a safe enclosure, they'd roam the whole farm and a few would be taken by hawks or foxes or something else.

I am very much opposed to chickens in the city unless the owners are licensed to have this, and subject to the same laws regarding animal cruelty as "pets". If backyard flocks, no matter how small, are allowed, you are going to see nastiness from the human species, and animal suffering, you didn't know existed. Nobody asks, what do we do with HennyPenny when she doesn't want to lay anymore? In cold places, what do we do with them during the winter? During that first year, they just like those fresh eggs and bucolic sight of hens pecking away in the backyard (awwww, ain't it cute), but most of these urban farmers don't know the details.

Thanks for asking!

I think it is a very healthy and sound thing to do, to experiment, to doubt, to ask questions. I find it important for me to re-examine my choices.

take care of your health
Gosia



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