A raw vegan diet has weaknesses of a few elements. But once they are met (yes with supplements), it blows away any other diet. However, we cannot engage on this because you refuse to tell what you eat so that I can compare it.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A raw vegan diet has weaknesses of a few elements.
> But once they are met (yes with supplements), it
> blows away any other diet. However, we cannot
> engage on this because you refuse to tell what you
> eat so that I can compare it.

Is there any proof that the vegan diet you follow i.e high sugar 80/10/10 blows other healthy balanced diets away though(none to my knowledge), or is this just your belief because you've been told it so many times from guru's. Also try to not compare studies done on cooked vegan diets and 80/10/10, as the diets are hugely different. A wholefood cooked vegan diet is much higher in protein and amino acid quality, as well as minerals such as Zinc tend to be higher due to inclusion of beans, legumes and grains.

Im still aloud my point though which is, i don't feel its healthy or natural to have to rely on synthetic supplements such as B12 or Zinc just to make your diet nutritionally complete. With how anti-supplement or even natural foods such as spices/herbs you guys are, i find it quite funny that you would allow and make such exceptions for synthetic supplements as mandatory for the diet to be healthy.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 02:24PM by powerlifer.

And artificial Taurine is not synthetic? As far as I know, Zinc and Iodine are not synthetic sicen they are elements. Check out the chemical periodic table.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And artificial Taurine is not synthetic? As far as
> I know, Zinc and Iodine are not synthetic sicen
> they are elements. Check out the chemical periodic
> table.

Another strawman response, im not against the use of synthetic supplements as you fine well know if its use is warranted, i already stated above that i understand the use of these supplements to correct severe deficiencies for example.

I am however against the use of synthetic supplements if its to supply a nutrient which should be obtained naturally from dietary food sources. How hard is this to understand? Why not eliminate all vitamin C sources and start taking ascorbic acid Panchito for your Vitamin C needs whilst your at it?

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 02:32PM by powerlifer.

And a cooked steak is a natural happening phenomena that comes out from a tree? Again, I am patiently awaiting to hear your diet a supply of natural and essential elements.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And a cooked steak is a natural happening
> phenomena that comes out from a tree? Again, I am
> patiently awaiting to hear your diet a supply of
> natural and essential elements.

Well you know fine well this forum is vegan and i can't reply with recommending food sources or i more than happily would. Infact another member recommended an ethical source of these nutrients before, think what came before the chicken. In this day and age its much more natural to eat that food than injecting yourself with b12 or relying on supplements.

Although if you are striving for extreme dietary purity i.e orthorexia you will likely view all foods as toxic other than fruits in excessive amounts. How did we get this far from balance and rationale. I am glad i am over this crap, because all this stressing about dietary purity was half the problem for me.
[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 02:43PM by powerlifer.

So, how do you define natural? Does 'cooking' pass your natural test?

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, how do you define natural? Does 'cooking' pass
> your natural test?

Yes i would deem cooking natural, i think its fairly certain that to get to this point in evolution that cooking was a requirement. There are more than enough studies to show the correlation between brain size and cooking now.

Before you assume that to mean that the diet must contain 100% cooked food, no it will have been likely balanced with adequate amounts of raw foods such as fruits, vegetables, herbs and other botanicals.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 02:49PM by powerlifer.

I think brain development may have been due to having a constant supply of calories like from agriculture, not because of cooked food. As far as I know, all animals like apes have brains. Do you think different dogs need a different diet?

We are drifting away from the topic

I know nothing about canine nutrition so i couldn't answer that im afraid.

Agriculture and grains in particular has been a hindrance if anything by causing increased intestinal permeability(leaky gut) and systemic inflammation through weaked adrenal gland function. Gluten in particular has had the most ravaging effect on health in my opinion. Since the introduction of Agriculture we have seen a constant rise in auto-immune diseases such as MS, this doesn't surprise me since research finds leaky gut is a suspected causative factor in auto-immune disease as is adrenal insufficiency.

But yes calorie density does have a role in this your right, but due to the inclusion of cooked animal foods im afraid, volume to calorie density.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 03:09PM by powerlifer.

That sounds like a pretty story. But I don't see where the 'cooked' part is the originating factor. If you feed cooked foods to animals, they don't get smarter and their brain doesn't get bigger either. Lions should have a huge brain since they eat calorie dense foods. Maybe the story is just to justify cook food. There are many hypothesis and new ones keep coming every semester.

Well like i say there is a fairly decent amount of research on this now, which shows the correlation between invention of cooking and increased brain size and development.

I guess this goes heavily against the raw hypothesis, one thing we know for sure is that as human beings we have never been strict herbivores and certainly not in the way many of you guys are trying to replicate with diets such as 80/10/10.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 03:20PM by powerlifer.

Food for thought.

Raw Food Not Enough to Feed Big Brains

PL, in this case, in order to be convinced of a diet, you first need the 'want part.' Surely, it is very well documented how people are hard headed. Just look in TV for food shows. It takes a huge bomb to make people change their diets. "they want us to eat lettuce! Rise your arms! Find the scientist to back us up.

So, I just ate a small handful of raw org almonds and 4 dates. Now my gut hurts a bit. Not alot, but a bit and I'm sleepy.

Anyone?

Are dates probably not a good idea since I have sugar addiction issues? Or are they ok?

Mindy

Mindy,

Maybe don't mix sweets and fat? Do either almonds or dates, not at the same time. If it's evening where you are, prolly nuts are a better choice, as dates are energizing and you are likely not running a marathon after midnight

Thanks Tamukha.

I'm surprised that I was so sleepy after having eaten that mixture if dates are energizing. ??

Nonetheless, I'll try to remember that I am not supposed to mix sweet and fat.

Didn't know that.

Mindy

Feeling sleepy post eating can be a sign of rebound hypoglycemia and if it happens after sugar rich foods such as dates this is pretty likely.

This is why you need to be careful jumping into high sugar diets such as 80/10/10 if you have existing metabolic issues such as insulin resistance or blood sugar issues.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]

Powerlifer,

Isn't it possible that fermenting the cruciferous veggies will "cook" them and allow them to be safely eaten just as steaming them would do??

Would be nice if is so.

Mindy

mindy66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Powerlifer,
>
> Isn't it possible that fermenting the cruciferous
> veggies will "cook" them and allow them to be
> safely eaten just as steaming them would do??
>
> Would be nice if is so.

Fermentation is meant to decrease the goitrogenic activity of foods unfortunately this hasn't been found in the cruficerous vegetables to the best of my knowledge, although a few studies have found fermentation actually increased the goitrogenic activity of some foods. Fermented foods are great for health especially for maintaining healthy gut flora balance.

Goitrogens are generally not an issue pending you are consuming sensible amounts of these foods and getting adequate iodine intake. Goitrogens are potential problems for those with hypothyroidism though, so i would exercise caution on consuming large amounts and use methods such as light steaming to reduce the goitrogens if you want to consume these foods with existing thyroid disorders.

The cruciferous vegetables are some of the best for health so i wouldn't let the non-raw put you off, because there is a wealth of benefits to be had from these vegetables even cooked. Studies have shown light steaming retains the anti-cancer benefits of broccoli for example.

Although every plant food could technically be considered "goitrogenic" due to the phyto-estrogen content.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2013 06:41PM by powerlifer.

How much iodine, per day, is adequate?

What are some good natural, raw sources of iodine that I can consume daily?

Also, if I am to eliminate cruciferous veggies, what greens might I consider for juicing??

Thank you Powerlifer!

Mindy





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2013 06:54PM by mindy66.

Just for my own personal record, want to document that today is my 8th day and I am very sluggish and feeling extra fatigued. Constipated also. Ugghhh. Not giving up though. No Way! Still trying to understand what I should and should not consume daily. Still don't have that down, but moving forward.

Mindy

Hi Mindy.

If you take advise from a non raw fooder, then I am afraid your journey will end soon. At the first sign of trouble he may even tell you to eat a steak. You are going to end up so so confused. Try to start with a model and go from there.

Great advice Panchito!!!

Yawn, maybe Mindy should just be dogmatic then and consume lots of raw goitrogenic vegetables, despite stating in her initial post that she suffers from hypothyroidism. Ignore common sense to uphold your RAW purity label though.

The best natural food source of iodine is sea vegetables, they are also a rare source of many hard to get trace and ultra trace elements. The amount of iodine can depend on the individual. If your hypothyroidism is caused by auto-immune hashimoto for example then high intake of iodine can actually aggravate the condition.

[www.natuhealth.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2013 08:45PM by powerlifer.

Personally I fear that you may figuratively be shooting yourself in the foot by trying to go 100% right away. Your chances of success and sticking with it are statistically much lower, and your chances of keeping with it in the long run (long enough for results) are also lower.

It seems that most people I know who STAY raw transitioned into it, and I may be slightly biased toward this as it is my story as well...but when you think of it as slowly REPLACING things with NEW favorites, it is no longer a diet, it is no longer confusing, and you no longer have all of the side effects.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

[fresherthanlife.com]

Mindy, what did you eat the day you were feeling sluggish and constipated. Can you put your daily menu as follows (this is what I ate recently):

2pm: 8 navel oranges, 6 satsuma tangerines
7pm: 12 satsuma tangerines, a salad of a romaine heart, handful of baby arugula, 3 cucumbers, a handful of cherry tomatoes, a dressing with 2 tablespoons cashews, 1/2 tablespoon chia, bell pepper, 2 ribs celery, an orange,

Thanks everyone for your input.

Prana, I will come back here and do that later, though I will confess that I'm not certain I'll be able to remember everything. Will try though.

I certainly hope I'm not shooting myself in the foot.

My health depends on this.

Mindy

Today Wed, Jan. 16 so far -

7:30am - Woke up, took meds, drank water

10am - 3 Oro Blanco Grapefruits (the best ever!) I wasn't hungry for some reason until 10am

10:30 - 2 oranges - was still hungry

11am - Veggie juice (4 lg. Swiss Chard leaves, 4 Carrots, big handful Italian Parsley, greens from 1 Green Onion, 2 celery stalks, 1/2 lemon) Yummy!

3 pm - Large salad of mixed organic greens and 1/2 avacado and pomegranate/ACV salad dressing.

Mindy

Mindy, I entered in the food you ate into cronometer, and it said you ate 1005 calories, with 16% fat, 76% carbs, and 8% protein. I think this may be too few calories. Do you know how many calories you used to eat with cooked foods on a daily basis?

Are you hungry at the end of the day? Is this enough food for you? If you are feeling well fed, then great.