Ok well in attempt to heal myself from some chronic esoteric undiagnosable problem, I have tried everything from undergoing extensive fasts, urine therapy/fasting, Himalayan salt water therapy, went from omnivore to vegetarian, to fruitarian, and now im just a raw vegan (5 months now), with 70% of my daily diet is blended foods for better assimilation. The question that I have been asking myself since I went raw is that would I still be 100% raw if i take supplements (capsules), or would this inhibit the healing process of a raw foodist. Also what about tea? should I or shouldn't I? In attempt to get better I would like to take herbs and the sort, but not sure if staying 100% raw is the better option in the long run. Some advise from the gurus here would be very helpful. Thanks to all.
-Ken

Opinion:

-I would advise weaning yourself from all processed items (or any medications or chemicals) at a pace that is right for you...and in conjunction with your health professional. If YOU feel they are necessary - however - I certainly support you 100%.

-David Z. Mason

David,
Thanks for the support, im currently not taking any medications/chemicals. In spite of my condition, I don't feel that my problems will make there way into remission. But would taking something like an herbal supplement be a problem for someone trying to potentially heal themselves by solely going 100% raw? Are you still raw if taking herbal supplements? Any advice on other types of treatments? Thanks again.
-Ken

I hear you.

I took a vegan multi-vitamin (children's chewable) for a couple of years while transitioning....but after a while...various supplements just made me ill. I just feel that if you can't get your nutrition through your food / lifestyle.....then you'll never get it from supplements...which are electrically dead! Ha! ha! I suppose if I thought herbal supplementation was necessary...I'd just eat herbs! LOL. (and some dirt!).

-You don't have to believe it, but they say they great part about healthy eating....is that they body truly heals based on what you are NOT eating! Ha! ha!

-As to true health-giving practices...you have the standard list:

1) Light eating (fresh fruits / vegetables)
2) Light fasting (juice or water)
3) Light exercise (walking, running, swimming, dancing, yoga, weights)
4) Fresh air and good breathing
5) Pure water
6) Acceptance
7) Joyful and passionate living towards your job and lifestyle
8) Creative hobbies
9) Motivated service work
10) Reasonable sunlight in the skin and eyes every day

-What do you think?

-David Mason

I'm in agreement with David. Herbs and supplements may suppress the problem, but at some point you'll have to deal with them.

Here are some other places to play:

1. Find a fasting supervisor, and take a long supervised water fast. Say like 30 days or so. Dr Graham has a water fast he supervises in Costa Rica. Robert Sniadach and Tim Trader now supervise fasts in California. There is also the True North fasting Center north of San Francisco.

2. Get plenty of rest and sleep. So much of healing happens during sleep, and if in your previous lifestyle you had a fair amount of stress or lack of sleep, it may be that you need to pay back a previous sleep debt. Are you sleeping without an alarm clock, and getting at least 8 hours of sleep a day. For a person with a chronic condition, even more sleep, say like 12 or more hours would be desirable.

3. Are you eating any foods that are not fresh ripe raw organic whole fruits and vegetables? Spice or condiments are an example of a substance that is NOT a fresh ripe raw organic whole fruit or vegetable.

Thanks for some great replies,
To David your idea's are very simple, yet are powerful and effective. I don't take in any vitamin supplements as I get all my vitamins and minerals from whole foods, except vitamins D and b12. Strange thing is I had the stop the fruitarian diet because recent blood tests came back positive for anemia. Now Im back to blended smoothies. And to Bryan I only eat fresh ripe raw organic foods, would rather starve then to bite into any conventional foods. I went on a urine fast for 14 days unsupervised and was experiencing severe stomach pain in the last few days with a real hunger starting to come about so I had no choice but to end the fast. I lost about 20lbs (I was 5'10 and weighed 128) and wasn't looking/feeling to good, since that was only last month I don't think it would be a good idea to fast again anytime soon.

I still don't see why herbs wouldn't help to promote healing, as they have been used since ancient times, wouldn't we come to learn from our ancestors knowledge in these ancient healing herbs?

As of now my diagnosis is up in the air, but have gastrointestinal, neurological, and muscular problems. And have blood reports come back to say I have an overactive immune system, as I have 1 stage of lupus (not sure what that means but there are 5 stages I guess), have gone through every test doctors can think of so far and have become a head-scratcher for them to provide a educated diagnosis.

So what exactly is the science behind consuming herbs and how they only are temporary remedies, and would taking a vegan encapsulated herbs be raw? (My guess is probably not, but to what extent?) Also would it be alright to do have a little tea or is that as bad or if not worse then herbs? Thanks again guys for your time, concern and respect.
-Ken

Ken,

You are too thin and you need to eat more. Don't stop taking your B12 source, there are some liquids now with minimal excipient that you can take in only one drop once per week. If the sun is breaking you out in lesions as is typically the case for people with lupus when exposed, you need to take your D2 from a pill also.

But mainly you need to eat more! You should weigh at least 140. If you are eating only enough to maintain 118 lbs you may have multiple deficiencies. Eating enough on a raw diet should be helpful for the lupus.

Some herbs can help but may interfere with vitamin and/or mineral assimilation of our foods. That doesn't sound like it will help in your case.

Do you mind sharing your exact diet? I think you might need to double the quantities of food you are eating.

Ken,

Do you believe that your lupus condition was caused by a deficiency of some herb? Or is the herb just another form of medicine, a plant version of what the medical paradigm does with pharmaceutical?

Any substance that has a medicinal effect, that is, can cause symptoms to disappear or be suppressed, it toxic. How do you know it is toxic? Would you feed such an herb or medicine as food to young child? Probably not, as this would probably make the child sick.

The difference between an herbal medicine and a pharmaceutical one is the lack of refinement found in the pharmaceutical medicines. Both have the ability to suppress symptoms, both have the capacity to poison.

Wouldn't you rather remove the causes of the lupus rather than administer some medicine to make the symptoms disappear. And if the symptoms disappear, but the cause of the illness isn't removed, then what? Would you be happy to get cancer instead?

Hi Ken, my sister was diagnosed with lupus a few years ago and managed to get healthy again after about a year of doing a raw food diet. She remains helathy to this day. She didn't do any fasts or anythings like that but she did get plenty of sleep, avoided the sun (which was a trigger for her) and ate plenty of raw fruits and veggies (she didn't lose much weight at all). The idea is to let the body heal itself, by removing those parts of your life, such as poor diet and other environemental/emotional toxins, that interfere with this process and take up energy. It's very important, in my opinion, that you become aware of what you are going through, and also look to improve your emotional health and stability, so not just your physical diet but your emotional/spiritual one as well.

Cheers and good luck,
J

HI Ken,

Autoimmune disorders respond very well to the raw diet. You do not need any supplements/herbs/etc. You will be getting plenty of nutrients from fruits and veggies. I suggest that you stick to a very simple diet of mostly fruit and tender greens. Food is actually more digestible if you eat mono meals (one thing at a time per meal) rather than blending. I healed from fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, irritable bowel syndrome, chronic bladder infections, depression, anxiety and other health conditions! Stick with it and you will get better. Use positive affirmations and visualize yourself as healthy, vibrant and strong. Gets lots of rest. Health is our birth right, all we have to do is get out of our bodies way.

All the best,

Audrey
www.rawhealing.com

Fist off, thank you everyone so much in your concerns with my ongoing condition. Its always reassuring to hear of other people with similar experiences "heal" themselves from chronic physical aliments of the body. To give you all an understanding as to what im doing now in terms of diet, I mostly eat sequentially except for the smoothies as its not easy to eat a 1/2 lb of raw greens a day, but here is a typical daily diet I have been maintaining this season. Because im at school most of the day its difficult to modify my eating schedule, but the smoothies make it convenient between classes.

Breakfast: 7:00am
4-5 Organic Oranges w/ peels

Brunch: 8:30am
2 Organic Hass Avocados

Pre-Lunch: 11:00am
4 Organic Tomatoes

Lunch: 12:00pm
1/2 of Smoothie Mix
- 1/2 lb of Organic baby greens (Spinach, Romaine, or Spring Mix)
- 2-3 Organic Bananas
- 1oz Sun-Dried Goji Berries (Soaked Overnight) [Or other whole berries]

Post Lunch: 2:00pm
Finish up other 1/2 of Smoothie

Pre-Dinner: 4:45pm
4-5 Organic Bananas

Dinner: 5:45pm
35-40 Grams Organic Hemp Seeds

So tell me what you guys think about this diet, I really try to consume the most nutrient dense foods that also help pack on the most calories. I currently weigh in around 143 lbs and have been able to maintain this weight with this diet. I have been raw for 4 months now and have only experienced minor improvements, so I am still struggling with desperation to get better and have my days where I feel like crap and that maybe im doing the wrongs things, or pessimistic about being raw will take care of my problems, Im not even sure if lupus is what i defiantly have but I do have an overactive immune system (autoimmune), so I don't know how to tackle the situation the proper way. I can only diagnose myself through my symptoms, which I could explain in detail if anyone could be of help.

And a big problem with getting rest for me is that I find it difficult to fall asleep, so even though I hop in bed at 9-10 I dont fall asleep till 2-3am, I do exercise, meditate, and practice pranayama yogic breathing, but still cant fall asleep well, and when I wake up, I don't feel rested .

I feel some herbs can be helpful to detoxifying organs in the body but at an expense of the liver, but we all drink and breathe toxins daily that cant be avoided unless you live in a bubble. But im not going to resort to herbs unless I know that it will help my yet undiagnosable problem and still remain raw.

But that you everyone for such imformative responses and encouragement towards self-healing. Keep me posted as I will listen to and take into consideration to all your recommendations. Peace and blessings.
-Ken

This is what I come up with:

1990 kcal
81 g fiber
186 g sugar
74 g fat
40 g protein
(diet is about 31% fat and 6% protein)

no vitamin deficiencies if b12 and d2 sources are reliable and consistent

minerals:
calcium: meets 68% of daily value (probably doesn't have to be 1000 mg or more but 800-ish would be good).
iron: meets 79%, could be higher
sodium: your intake is on the low side
zinc: 52%L this one is difficult to get enough of in a vegan diet.
selenium: 31%, eat some brazil nuts

essential fatty acids:
excellent, perfect o63 ratio

--

The main thing I see is that you could use more kcals and more importantly more protein. Your amino score is 90 for your 40 g which gives you a net of around 36. Also your very high fiber intake with further reduce your net, to maybe low 30s. This might not be high enough to sustain perfect health. About 0.8 g per kg or more is a good target on a raw vegan diet

I get 40-50 g per day and I am about 40 lbs lighter than you. I think you would do better with 60-70 g/day and a good source of selenium (brazil nuts have both lots of selenium and the sulfur amino acids cysteine and methionine). And you could increase your sodium intake slightly (celery?).

You could try brazil nuts, other nuts/seeds, and a little more greens for iron and calcium. Less bananas maybe and maybe a little less avocado (but not if it means you lose kcals, you could increase kcals by 10-20%).

But truthfully you are doing so great in many other ways.

Ken,

Your fat intake is high at 30%. This could be affecting your sleep, as you last meal is a fat meal, and you could be feeling the effects of digesting your food as you try to sleep. When digesting is occuring, the body can be stimulated/agitated.

Try going a month with no overt fats, ie, no nuts, seeds, avos, oils, etc.

This may allow you to sleep more soundly.

Ken,

Oranges with peels?

I used to have trouble sleeping that I tracked to digestive disturbances. Those orange peels would have me up for weeks.

Hmmm, interesting stuff. I have tried a no fat diet for about 2 months and only led to problems, especially after my fast, extremely dry skin, dandruff, and led me in a daily low caloric intake. After having the avocados for several weeks I have noticed the skin problems were beginning to clear up. I get plenty of sodium and calcium from my water which I mix with Himalayan salt called (sole), this has also been helping with dehydration issues I have had for some time. If I cut the fats/bananas I will loose almost half my daily calories. I am getting mixed answers here which confuses me, Bryan's advice of cutting the fats/proteins compared to Arugula's advice to increase the fats/proteins. Also I tried some raw wheat germ the past several days and it has lead to very malodorous gas/stools, so I had to put it down for awhile. I also have chronic belching/bloating/gas all the time and nothing I do with my diet seems to help, one of reasons I had for considering taking herbs. Also I have tried eliminating orange peels before but has not seemed to help so I'm eating them again, is there something about the peels that affect sleep? The peel is more nutritious then the actual orange itself, so I would like to keep it in my diet.

My problem is very complex and without an accurate diagnosis, I can only look to food as my medicine. If I eliminate anything in my diet, It will only lead me to less overall nutrition. What should I do? If you need anymore details as to what im doing and whats going on, feel free to ask questions. Thanks everyone. You have all been so supportive.
-Ken

Also: Its documented that wild animals can get autoimmune diseases, just as humans do. And they live on raw food. Raw foods certainly is the healthiest lifestyle, but maybe it just cant stop in inevitable from happening.

My statement is based on DRIs (which includes RDAs) and WHO recommendations for health, which you are currently not meeting for protein and a few minerals. The DRIs are not a joke. You can read more about how they were developed at the National Academies Press website:

[www.nap.edu]

Search on DRIs.

You are getting enough fat, but not enough protein, which is why I suggested switching out part of the avocadoes for higher protein nuts (and possibly seeds) and greens.

Going raw doesn't mean RDAs no longer apply. A lot of people run into trouble for not meeting them. Some lucky ones don't.

We never know which side of the bell curve we are on so it's best to play it safe and meet the needs that have been handed down to us based on extensive study + safety factor for 98%+ of the population.

That is to say nothing of having physical symptoms, which indicate that there is a real problem, not merely a wish to avert a potential one.

There isn't much evidence that having a diet adequte in essential fats and moderate in monounsaturated raw fat (say, over 25% but less than 40%) contributes to ill-health if other needs are met although I do not discount the possibility that higher fat diets are more conducive to cancer growth. But for a person of normal or overweight, there may be no benefit to this much fat, either, aside from taste.

Ken,

It sounds like you know what you need to heal yourself. I'm not certain why you were asking for input.

Ken,
Just a few thoughts about your different posts.

Not sure about doing urine fasting when the urine is from a sick person. Have heard that it isn't such a good thing when you are a sick person to drink your own urine. But ok for a well person to drink their own urine. (Not sure??).

At a talk Gabriel Cousens, said that ill people might be better off doing several shorter fasts (eg with green juice) of e.g. 7 days length rather than long fasts (you mentioned doing a 14 day urine fast).

According to e.g. Traditional Chinese Medicine, the body is in an elimation phase until late morning (I think approx 11am or so). And it is best to eat only fruit during this time. Although avocado is a fruit, it is a dense, oily fruit and would be harder on your digestion at that time of day than a lighter fresh fruit.

Stuff like candida and parasites can affect getting off to sleep at night as they give off certain substances into your body that can affect your ability to fall asleep.

You said:
I also have chronic belching/bloating/gas all the time and nothing I do with my diet seems to help

Candida and / or parasites can cause that too. (They are opportunists when you are not in good health).

John

John,
Thats interesting you bring up the Candida/Parasite possibility. I thought for so long that I had candida overgrowth and then believed I had to of had some type of parasite like giardia. But after many blood/stool/endoscopic tests everything was coming back negative. I went many months on a sugarless diet, and pounding myself with probiotics and supplements. But still.... no improvement in the long run, thats when I stopped all the supplements and everything, and resorted to raw food smoothie diet. But still no major improvement. Thats what leaves me so confused, I dont know what to make of all this. My life now has become such a struggle.
Sincerely,
Ken