greens - goitrogens, oxalates etc.
fruits - too much sugar ( too much sugar is "bad"
nuts - rancid etc.
sprouts - still has anti nutrients
fermented foods - could have "bad" bacteria if not too careful

i don't have any answers

just more and more questions

its a labyrinthical ever inward spiraling journey

whatcha gonna do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2013 12:17AM by la_veronique.

You know the real answer to that, it is to consume the real food...our ideal food...the pure foods with no anti-nutrients. The light and sound vibrations. The question is, how do we manage it.

Think about it. Where is the evidence that cells and atoms consume food to exist. You might want to read Hilton Hotemas excellent book `Long life in Florida'. He covers many interesting things on this subject.

The more you meditate and experience an increasing degree of enlightenment, the more you realise that food is an absurd concept. But we have conditioned ourselves into needing this rot just as alcoholics and drug addicts have conditioned themselves to need their regular poison to function and possibly avoid death in some cases.

When we ate from the `so called' garden of eden we all paid the price and began to live in an illusionary environment that we believe to be our truth. The belief that we need this foods appears to be an illusion. I know good people who defy science and are close to breatharian, so l know it's not a crazy concept. I know various people who so little calories that they should be dead according to our silly science, but they thrive. Things are not how we think they are, we can be conditioned to various realities.

Great thread, l was actually going to touch on this subject in the recent calorie thread l started. I know most can't handle or like such concepts (we are supposed to be sick in the head lol), so it's great to speak with like minded people.

You connect with the cosmos and the truth will come out.

Important things to think about - the BIG questions and concepts

Once again...show me the proof that atoms and cells in our body use this food we eat? Why don't planets comprising of cells and atoms need food?

I put it to you that the minerals and fatty acids etc in food is what is actually drawing electromagnetic fields which sustain the body. You miss a certain mineral or fatty acid and the body doesn't have the neccessary supporting energy fields to for complete health.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2013 12:46AM by The Sproutarian Man.

"The day your eyes will be opened, you will come to realize that the foods you eat are poisonous to your body".

Eyes opened = enlightenment.

Poisons in bananas = cyanide, fructo-oligosaccharides which aren't digested and need to be broken down by intestinal bacteria causing poisoness methane gas production. It goes on and on, all foods have nasty business going on in them.

If foods were meant to be eaten then why aren't they 100% digestable with no toxins in them?

So why do foods exist? Because the cosmic intelligence knew humans were prone to being silly and falling into temptations because they had a choice. Since we had a choice and were prone to making bad decisions we were given a stomach and intestines etc.

That's the thing...life can only work if we have a choice. If we don't have a choice there would be no free will, and the consequences that go with free will wouldn't be able to provide a learning experience.

If we live in a perfect world we wouldn't be able to know everything, because to gain knowledge your light being needs lifetimes to gain experience, and proper experience is only gained when we go through the good and bad so we can appreciate what we really have so we don't drop our level like we originally did. When we were in a perfect world we lacked the experience and memories of a downfall, so we needed that downfall to complete our knowledge so it was recorded in our light being's memory. We can only become truely perfect when we have all the experiences which contribute to total knowldge and perfection.

I believe we once started in a very high realm, then we got tempted with nonsense, chose a body because we wanted an experience, fell from grace because we didn't appreciate the perfect circumstances we once had, and now we are in a mess. The cosmos is perfect and goes on forever, and we were once part of that perfect reality and entirely at one with it. Soul levels can go up and down.

When we have total knowledge and perfect life recall we are never ever going back to this muck we call the Earth. Until then souls can go up and down until knowledge and perfection is complete.

See, if God made it easy we wouldn't know anything. That's why the dark forces are part of God...it ensures our perfection. The system works PERFECTLY!!!

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2013 01:28AM by The Sproutarian Man.

<<You know the real answer to that>>

i suppose everyone does.. in their own way

i like hilton hotema's work
i didn't read that specific book u mentioned but read another of his book a while back ( original thinker. he is.. i like that)

these ideas are ancient
and hence
essential to pose the question of why they have survived so long

and still continue to do so

everything that is "magical" is real

and everything that is real is magical

just look at your hand or your feet

note where your feet will tend to traverse towards

and what your hands will be incited to forge

and what about the magician that is called " Mind"

and the greater sorcerer called "Soul"

sproutman


the concept of free will and also

the notion that one polarity cannot exist without another in order to complete the cycle of perfection

have always from time immemorial been striking and stunning

and still very much alive today

and begs for further pondering

it was important then

and it is important now

You want your mind really blown? Do you really want to hear about some cool stuff we can do as humans? Do you really want to know some cosmic truth from the big boys? Beware, it's beyond human imagination and will blow minds too far out, wayyyy far out...people can only talk about this stuff when they access certain vibrations that lead to cosmic truth because the very best imaginations can't just make stuff like this up. Ready..want to give it a go?

Btw, when l talk about garbage (health talk and raw foods and the garbage science that goes with it) l often use the words "in my opinion" and are careful how l state things because we are dealing with illusionary nonsense dealing (human ideas/science) with illusionary situations (food eating and a material physical world). BUT, when it comes to cosmic spiritual talk l am not careful about what l say because we are tapping into perfection - l don't have opinions on this stuff, l just access the cosmic vibrations and just say it without any apologies. No thinking about stuff in this case, it's just letting it flow through you and spitting it out.

When you live in an illusion you need to use the brain and think because we are using nonsense to try to explain nonsense. The brain is a dumbing down tool because it makes us think in illusionary situations. There is no such things as smart people...we are all dumb as doornails, the only smartness is the universal intelligence we can tap into.

Anyway...time to stop rambling. Want your mind blown?

And yes....l don't like talking about raw food or most of anything because it is all nonsense...it's an illusion and when we buy into an illusion we buy into satanism. Being on this forum darkens my spirit and l don't like being here because l would rather take the vow of silence and meditate and avoid the illusion as much as possible, l only post here and my site to help other people, but l would rather avoid it and meditate. I'll do a few years to help people and then l am going away and becoming a recluse...i'll do what the yogi's do when they want high level enlightenment...take the vow of silence and disappear. l am ready for the bigger ride...the big picture.

"some men create familes, other men create philosophies" - Hotema

"if something is not important, don't do it". - Me

"only talk about highly important things or don't talk at all" - Me

"avoid all distractions like t.v, fiction, newspapers, music, trivial conversations...only do highly important things". - Me

www.thesproutarian.com

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life: and man became a living soul" (Gen. 2:7).

Man was supposed to use his intelligence to solve the food problem.

Food was meant to be eaten intelligently by human



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2013 03:04AM by CommonSenseRaw.

Earthly entertainment is the work of the dark forces because it is a distraction from our reality. When you are completely fulfilled and reach a certain state you don't need any entertainment because you are complete in yourself and don't need to go looking for external things to complete your happiness. That's why the gogi's go into the mountains to meditate, they are complete. Your happiness shouldn't be dependant on external things because that is conditional happiness. When the `light and sound' radiates through you, you become complete.

We can become complete as humans and be happy to just contemplate, and when we reach that level we can then move on to become God. I don't like the word God because it is only a man made word that means nothing, but what is God? God is the sound and light and we can become part of God.

Everyone knows God inside, it is our response to the light and sound vibrations. God speaks in funny voices that no language can interpret, but we ALL understand the words of God. I hear the words of God 24/7 and l see it and it speaks to me and guides me. There is only one God and we are all part of it because we are all as one, but we feel we aren't God because we have lost the connection.

How do l know we are all as one? It's easy to know.

Ready for your mind to be blown yet la_veronique?..because l will blow it if you want me too. Then again...maybe you are a very high level being and know everything and are just visiting the Earth under disguise.

You reckon the mythical creatures, Elves and aliens don't exist? Bwhaha. Oh dear, we live in such an illusion.

How much do you want your mind blown...5/10, 8/10, or 10/10? Be careful what you ask for. And no, some things are not allowed to be said, they have given me strict instructions to keep my mouth shut about most things.

I can only talk about low level stuff like: what causes babies, why do we have bodies, how can we be in many places at the one time (what???), how we can enter people's bodies and read minds, how we can be in different dimensions at the one time etc (what???). I can't tell you the real big stuff because they won't tell me, so l only talk about the basics. And l certainly cannot tell you about some of the places we can visit in the universe and the hidden beings living on Earth...l get in big trouble if l talk about that stuff.

CommonSenseRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the
> ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath
> of life: and man became a living soul" (Gen.
> 2:7).
>
> Man was supposed to use his intelligence to solve
> the food problem.
>
> Food was meant to be eaten intelligently by human

We need to be careful of things which man has intervened with. Pure documents can be tampered with by man with bad intentions to control information. Some good books can be manipulated, that's why there are many opposing versions of various texts.

I choose not to read many books because they are tarnished by man. l prefer to go directly to the source and get the real information.

It's great talking about this stuff, l am winding my engine up and just getting started. I love truth...don't like illusions.

The purpose of brains are to be able to function in a physical illusion. A brain is for low level beings and l can't wait until l get rid of it. The really high level spiritual people lose most brain ability to function, they basically become like zombies because their soul is mainly living in another dimension when their body is still on Earth and it is like they aren't human beings anymore. Speak to these people and they usually say "huh"? They can barely function in life. It's a difficult transition period taking place, but everyone will go through it. When my brain starts becoming really dense, that's when the magic times will begin...can't wait!

A major shift in consciousness has happened recently.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2013 03:26AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Sweet thread La V. Big smiles.

Yes, food is meant for human consumption, as we humans are merely part and parcel of the universal flow of nature's gift of life. (to be grandiose about it).

Humans - like everything else on the planet - are components of biogeochemical cycling, which is made possible through storage and transfer of the elements. To me, this is most fascinating, as it indicates such profound spiritual order.

CO2 is an example that I love: Plants use CO2 for performing photosynthesis to generate energy from the sun. Carbon from the CO2 is stored in plants as carbohydrates. People/animals eat the carbs and we convert them back again to energy and CO2. CO2 is exhaled into the atmosphere, where it is picked up by plants for performing more photosynthesis -> carbs -> people - CO2 -> plants -> carbs -> people -> CO2, etc. The energy flows along with the carbon.

No man is an island (or woman or any other organic being in the universe). The fact that we are required to eat to live is one of nature's great lessons of interdependency and oneness (IMO).

Perhaps at one point, we transcend that interdependency through enlightenment. I don't know. I've never gone there personally myself. But if so, such existence is beyond the life of the body.

Or, a more basic way of looking at it: Each of the little essential vitamins and minerals we eat performs many of the essential functions for life. We cannot exist or have energy without these functions. The B vitamins provide some fun examples:

-Thiamin (B1) is an essential coenzyme for oxidative decarboxylation (there's those carbs again) of pyruvate to acetyl CoA that enters the TCA cycle as fuel for generating our life force energy through use of the electron transport chain.

-Riboflavin (B2) has essential coenzyme derivatives that deliver phosphate for oxidative phosphorylation which is required for the formation of the energy product (ATP) of the electron transport chain.

-Niacin (B3) is essential for transferring electrons within the electron transport chain.

-Pantothenic Acid (B5) is essential as a partner with thiamin for energy metabolism and is also essential for synthesis of acetylcholine, which is required for nerve transmission.

-Biotin is the essential coenzyme for transfer of CO2.

-Folic Acid is essential for cell division.

-B12 is essential for production of succinyl CoA, a component of the TCA cycle that produces CO2 (that we exhale for the plants) from carbon biproducts. The TCA cycle throws electrons into the electron transfer chain.

One interesting fact for rawfooders: The B vitamins are easily destroyed by heat.

All the essential vitamins and minerals (not just B vitamins) play crucial roles in our survival and the production of our DNA that rules the production and function of everything else. That's why we die when we don't eat them after a couple of months or so.

So it has been, and so it will always be - from our birth till the day we die - at which point, everything that is in our bodies will decompose and be recycled back into the lovely system called "life".

It's kind of a "share and share alike" proposition.

Here is something to make you smile. Even breatharianism is low level, for the universe usually contains no air because it is not needed by many folks.

What about beings said to be living with no sun, light or air? I've heard that some really high level beings can even learn to live on the vibrations of `love' alone haha.

Then there are various high level beings who claim they live on and in the sun, no kidding. Not hard to understand either because when you reach a high level of enlightenment you radiate out intense energy that is brighter than the sun (would vapourise most people instantly). So it is understandable that the various high level beings could live in the sun because their energy is greater than the sun. Some of the people on Earth claim to be able to contact these beings. And some people mention about having conversations with the sun. But if you are lower level you can definitely communicate with the sun because it is an electromagnetic being. The sun is our humble servant and they are there to intesify our vibrational field..ask them for help and they will be there to serve you. Oh dear almighty sun l love you so.

If an average SAD eater meditated in my body they would die because the intense energy vibrations would burn them out.

l am not talking about food in this thread. Talking about living on love and avoiding air and light is far more interesting. Wish l could live on love alone haha...maybe one day l will.

All sound, love and light are is energy fields. If you are living on water and air you are low level, but if you live on the former you have really made it to the big time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2013 04:20AM by The Sproutarian Man.

It all depends on what level of consciousness we are. St Hilarion (St Paul) food was only fifteen dried figs after sunset.
Scientists are so concerned trying to find life in distant galaxies while we have it every where in our galaxy. All these planets are inhabited just that life is at a different level of vibrations, we cannot perceive the beings living on Venus or Mars it does not mean they are not there. "Body" nourishment may be different in those worlds.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2013 02:45PM by RawPracticalist.

"I can only talk about low level stuff like: what causes babies, why do we have bodies, how can we be in many places at the one time (what???), how we can enter people's bodies and read minds, how we can be in different dimensions at the one time etc (what???)."

Do tell

How do you get into INTO a movie and you cry? It is only a movie but you cry because you are totally in it.

Food was meant to be eaten by humans, but all the issues with food that you have mentioned are because very few of us grow our own food and pick it fresh and eat it, and the rest has been tampered with, stored, etc. Natural fruit is more fibrous and often full of seeds but that's been all bred out of it by scientists, along with demineralised soils, etc. so commercial fruit is basically sugar and water with everything else missing. I hated celery growing up until many years ago an Italian guy brought some celery to work one day and wanted me to eat it. I told him I didn't like celery but he said to try it, and because it was home grown and freshly picked that morning it was delicious.

I had a similar experience with passion fruit. When you buy them in the shops they are expensive and sour so I wouldn't buy them. One day I was over at a friends place and they were growing their own passion fruit and offered me a bag of almost shriveled up passion fruit. I didn't really want them but took them. When I got home and cut them up they were all sweet and beautiful tasting - all home grown and allowed to ripen on the vine ( and I ate the lot in one sitting ).

When i grew up all the grapes had seeds in them so you couldn't just gorge on grapes madly, you had to eat them slowly.Now it's almost impossible to find grapes with seeds. The same with mandarins. They were more pithy, fibrous and full of seeds until some smart individual decided to remove the seeds and the pith. The same with watermelons.

The food isn't the problem, it's the totally unnatural lives we lead that have lead us to this situation. Now we have to try and do the best we can in our current circumstances, as a lot of us here are trying to do. Whether it is using supplements, growing your own sprouts, fermenting, or eating cooked foods and even eating a small amount of @#$%%^&&*. There is no one perfect optimum diet for everyone - and there never was such a thing as a fruit nirvana.

I think that one of the worst things for people interested in health is exactly what has happened to Harley, me, Tom Billings and to so many others. We were told not to eat this that and the other as it's poison, toxic, mucous forming, dead food, etc, and then our body ( and our mind ) rebelled. Eating a tiny amount of x, y or z was never the problem as long as the vast majority of our diet was healthy. If Harley hadn't been so extreme ( and obnoxious ) and allowed himself small amounts of cooked treats occasionally then he wouldn't have got to the point where he had to resort to white sugar and eating 3 whole pizzas in one sitting.

Having said the above, for some people the 100% raw mainly fruit diet works. It's not about bashing fruit or raw, just being realistic in this unnatural world we have to live in and be a part of.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2013 10:31PM by BJ.

Hi BJ,

I remember that - the grapes always having seeds, and we would eat them more slowly. Or if we ate the seeds too, we wouldn't eat so many grapes. It seems like the red grapes always had seeds, and they were still very good.

sproutman

<< Ready for your mind to be blown yet la_veronique?..because l will blow it if you want me too. Then again...maybe you are a very high level being and know everything and are just visiting the Earth under disguise.>>

we are all high level beings
and we know everything
and we are just visiting this beautiful bluish green planet under disguise
if a baby could talk
that's what it would tell you
when you looked into its eyes


<<You reckon the mythical creatures, Elves and aliens don't exist? Bwhaha. Oh dear, we live in such an illusion.>>

i imagine that to elves and aliens
humans are a mythical creature as well
and are perceived as quite odd and
exotic
cuz... they are
i mean
look at us

all on this raw food board
ruminating about rutabagas and radishes
it doesn't get any more odd
than that




How much do you want your mind blown...5/10, 8/10, or 10/10>>

I'll take a "10" please.
i mean, why not?
sounds good to me

hey suncloud

nice addendum to the krebs cycle
thanks

beautiful!

BJ

liked reading about your experience with home grown garden fresh celery and passion fruit

i'm jealous

suncloud


in the end,

its all about the ATP, isn't it?

the very much coveted glittering ATP

i guess my question could be reworded to say, do we need food to generate ATP?

the obvious answer is " yes"

any other answers?

From La Veronique:

"i guess my question could be reworded to say, do we need food to generate ATP?

the obvious answer is 'yes'"



IMHO, this very perfectly sums it up.

Didn't you know? We're supposed to live off the Light.

Here is an interesting experiment I did unintentionally.

Yesterday as I was walking home I passed the small local market. It's a mixed bag of everything. It's not a farmers market, but occasionally some fresh produce is there.

As i was walking past I saw some cherries. I wasn't going to buy any at $10 a large punnet, but they had some for tasting. After tasting one I found it was amazing - freshly picked and grown by the man there on his small acreage. I asked if I could have $5 worth and he obliged. I finished the lot off later on in the day. Later I happened to be in the local supermarket. They had cherries as well so I sampled a couple. They were soft and mushy and had been around for a while - terrible.
This morning I went to the organic shop to buy 2 bananas and they had expensive organic cherries as well so I sampled one. They were almost like the supermarket ones, soft and mushy and once the pip was out you more or less swallowed them.

This morning I went and bought another $10 worth of the freshly picked cherries. With these cherries you can't just remove the pip and swallow them. The are full inside and you actually have to chew them one at a time - like real food, and after eating a certain amount I had to stop. That's how fruit should be. It should be a complete food, as opposed to just being sugar and water, and that's why fruit has such a bad name in the raw food community. The question is, how many of us are able to get freshly picked good quality fruit? That's why I believe that the advice to just eat mountains of commercially grown organic and non organic fruit has proved so disastrous for so many people.

These cherries are just fantastic. You actually have to chew them, they are so full of flesh.

This story of the cherries reminds me of something a friend of mine told me. He comes from Lebanon. They had acreage and lived in the mountains where they grew their own food. He talked about eating their naturally grown tomatoes. He said they ate their tomatoes like we eat our apples. You had to eat it one bite at a time as the whole tomato was flesh - a whole food. That's why I think referring to our commercial organic and non organic fruit as natural isn't true any more. It's proven great as a short to medium term cleansing diet - just like fasting and juicing, but to offer it as the mainstay of someones long term eating is wrong - and dangerous, unless someone has access to real naturally grown fruit that is more than sugar and water.

Sometimes it seems that in order to adopt the "raw lifestyle", one has to be spiritual/theistic and I am neither. I just want to be a happier, healthier human animal.

pixel says

<<Sometimes it seems that in order to adopt the "raw lifestyle", one has to be spiritual/theistic and I am neither. I just want to be a happier, healthier human animal.>>

what do u mean by "spiritual" ... ? as opposed to...what, exactly? I'm curious.


<<I just want to be a happier, healthier human animal.>>

everyone else just wants to be the same too
i guess we all have that in common

suncloud wrote:

<< From La Veronique:

"i guess my question could be reworded to say, do we need food to generate ATP?

the obvious answer is 'yes'"



IMHO, this very perfectly sums it up.>>

hey suncloud,

let's have a food fight !

Yeah, food fight!!!

You throw first - as much as you like - while I hide behind my shopping cart. No, No, not the mangos! (SPLAT!) Mmmmmmm.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2013 08:08PM by suncloud.

By spiritual, I mean souls, a higher power, fate... many people who don't follow a specific religion yet believe in some kind of higher power often define themselves as such. I've gotten the impression that many raw foodists are very spiritual, or religious, and I've wondered if becoming raw started their spiritual journeys or if their beliefs were present beforehand.

pixel says

<<By spiritual, I mean souls, a higher power, fate... many people who don't follow a specific religion yet believe in some kind of higher power often define themselves as such. I've gotten the impression that many raw foodists are very spiritual, or religious, and I've wondered if becoming raw started their spiritual journeys or if their beliefs were present beforehand.>>


oh interesting thanks for answering
i didn't know that some people were spiritual and others were not
its an intriguing word

i thought all people wondered about things outside of the material boundaries
if not, then... hey, maybe they are sort of blessed in a strange way

then again, i don't know if animals or plants "wonder" about non material matters
and i think they are pretty "spiritual" simply because they never
get lost in a maze of presuppositions and mental conundrums
so in a way, they are kind of "free" thus "spiritual" cuz freedom and "spiritual" seems to go sort of hand in hand ( though not sure why, exactly)

as far as if people are spiritual first then become raw or vice versa
that's an interesting idea to ponder as well

i think that anyone that attempts to bust paradigms
or at least experience and test them

have a seed of expansiveness already planted within them

then, as the project/experiment continues
the seed simply swells up and busts out of the dirt
and ultimately attains a different perspective
then the one it had while it was lying under the ground