The thing is the supposed benefits of these specific raw diets are completely anecdotal, mostly hyped by people who have been doing the diets less than a year or by guru's who don't follow the diets at all.

I could understand if there was a wealth of scientific data validating the benefits of 80/10/10 or raw vegan but there isn't, especially compared to other diets.

If Hippocrates have research proving theres such as huge decline in immune function from eating cooked food then where is it, it becomes just another of Brian Clements imaginary studies ?

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing is the supposed benefits of these
> specific raw diets are completely anecdotal,
> mostly hyped by people who have been doing the
> diets less than a year or by guru's who don't
> follow the diets at all.
>
> I could understand if there was a wealth of
> scientific data validating the benefits of
> 80/10/10 or raw vegan but there isn't, especially
> compared to other diets.
>
> If Hippocrates have research proving theres such
> as huge decline in immune function from eating
> cooked food then where is it, it becomes just
> another of Brian Clements imaginary studies ?


The studies aren't imaginary, I believe TSM pointed out a few reasons why many of them aren't publicized in a previous post somewhere. This is actually what is was, from here: [www.timelessspirit.com] (Written by TSM actually lol)

"In the 1970's the Hippocrates Health Institute and Tufts University in Boston conducted a joint study to see how raw food and cooked food affected the immune system of healthy people free of all disease. Brian Clement of Hippocrates Health Institute reported when 'healthy' people ate a vegan diet of 75% raw food, their immune systems were not compromised in any significant way. But when these healthy people increased their cooked vegan food intake from 25% to 30% (the % of raw vegans cooked is always measured by weight), these people's immune systems dropped in functioning by an average of 17% across the board. And when these people increased their cooked food intake from 30% to 35%, about 50% of their immune systems had been compromised. What was even more startling is that the researchers looked at old research done at the 'Pasteur Institute' in France during the 1930's where the same conclusions were reached by a default study. [1] So we have two studies which confirm that a healthy person must be consuming at least a 75% raw diet to maintain good health. But the reality is… very few people are healthy these days because of the food they eat. Most people have blood sugar disorders (that's why people have cravings) and many are in the very early stages of diabetes. Half of the people living in modern countries are headed for cancer, followed by a large number headed for cardiovascular diseases. This just shows we are eating too little of the raw plant foods, we are compromising our immune systems and eating far too much cooked food, the wrong type of food, and most people (including raw vegans) are not eating enough fresh nutritious foods."

And I suspect there will be studies done on the raw food diet in the near-future as it is gaining popularity across the world.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 08:40PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "In the 1970's the Hippocrates Health Institute
> and Tufts University in Boston conducted a joint
> study to see how raw food and cooked food affected
> the immune system of healthy people free of all
> disease. Brian Clement of Hippocrates Health
> Institute reported when 'healthy' people ate a
> vegan diet of 75% raw food, their immune systems
> were not compromised in any significant way. But
> when these healthy people increased their cooked
> vegan food intake from 25% to 30% (the % of raw
> vegans cooked is always measured by weight), these
> people's immune systems dropped in functioning by
> an average of 17% across the board. And when these
> people increased their cooked food intake from 30%
> to 35%, about 50% of their immune systems had been
> compromised. What was even more startling is that
> the researchers looked at old research done at the
> 'Pasteur Institute' in France during the 1930's
> where the same conclusions were reached by a
> default study. [1] So we have two studies which
> confirm that a healthy person must be consuming at
> least a 75% raw diet to maintain good health. But
> the reality is… very few people are healthy
> these days because of the food they eat. Most
> people have blood sugar disorders (that's why
> people have cravings) and many are in the very
> early stages of diabetes. Half of the people
> living in modern countries are headed for cancer,
> followed by a large number headed for
> cardiovascular diseases. This just shows we are
> eating too little of the raw plant foods, we are
> compromising our immune systems and eating far too
> much cooked food, the wrong type of food, and most
> people (including raw vegans) are not eating
> enough fresh nutritious foods."
>
> And I suspect there will be studies done on the
> raw food diet in the near-future as it is gaining
> popularity across the world.

That isn't an study, thats just a quote which sounds like it originated from Brian Clement, where is the source study ?

what methods did they use to evaluate decline in immune function from cooked food because we certainly don't see it from typical immune markers on a individuals blood test.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 08:47PM by powerlifter.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "In the 1970's the Hippocrates Health Institute
> > and Tufts University in Boston conducted a
> joint
> > study to see how raw food and cooked food
> affected
> > the immune system of healthy people free of all
> > disease. Brian Clement of Hippocrates Health
> > Institute reported when 'healthy' people ate a
> > vegan diet of 75% raw food, their immune
> systems
> > were not compromised in any significant way.
> But
> > when these healthy people increased their
> cooked
> > vegan food intake from 25% to 30% (the % of raw
> > vegans cooked is always measured by weight),
> these
> > people's immune systems dropped in functioning
> by
> > an average of 17% across the board. And when
> these
> > people increased their cooked food intake from
> 30%
> > to 35%, about 50% of their immune systems had
> been
> > compromised. What was even more startling is
> that
> > the researchers looked at old research done at
> the
> > 'Pasteur Institute' in France during the 1930's
> > where the same conclusions were reached by a
> > default study. [1] So we have two studies which
> > confirm that a healthy person must be consuming
> at
> > least a 75% raw diet to maintain good health.
> But
> > the reality is… very few people are healthy
> > these days because of the food they eat. Most
> > people have blood sugar disorders (that's why
> > people have cravings) and many are in the very
> > early stages of diabetes. Half of the people
> > living in modern countries are headed for
> cancer,
> > followed by a large number headed for
> > cardiovascular diseases. This just shows we are
> > eating too little of the raw plant foods, we
> are
> > compromising our immune systems and eating far
> too
> > much cooked food, the wrong type of food, and
> most
> > people (including raw vegans) are not eating
> > enough fresh nutritious foods."
> >
> > And I suspect there will be studies done on the
> > raw food diet in the near-future as it is
> gaining
> > popularity across the world.
>
> That isn't an study, thats just a quote which
> sounds like it originated from Brian Clement,
> where is the source study ?
>
> what methods did they use to evaluate decline in
> immune function from cooked food because we
> certainly don't see it from typical immune markers
> on a individuals blood test.


Don't know, but why would Brian Clement lie when he himself admits to eating cooked food? He's not 100% raw.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 08:49PM by jtprindl.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't know, but why would Brian Clement lie
> when
> > he himself admits to eating cooked food? He's
> not
> > 100% raw.
>
> To promote his raw food diet ?
>
> Reading that quote it makes cooked food sound
> terrible for health, but it really has no basis
> and i doubt the research exists or is credible if
> it does. 35% of a diet coming from cooked vegan
> plant foods(vegan diet it said) im meant to
> believe causes a 50% reduction in immune system
> function ? i don't believe that for a second, were
> not seeing that anywhere else from research.
>
> Maybe sproutarianman can chime in with the source
> study if it exists.
>


Well of course you don't believe since you probably eat quite a bit of cooked food and DON'T WANT to believe it. The Hippocrates diet doesn't even need to be 100% raw and I think they actually serve cooked food to their patients. It emphasizes sprouts, algae's, and sea vegetables, not being 100% raw.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 11:58PM by Prana.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well of course you don't believe since you
> probably eat quite a bit of cooked food and DON'T
> WANT to believe it. The Hippocrates diet doesn't
> even need to be 100% raw and I think they actually
> serve cooked food to their patients. It emphasizes
> sprouts, algae's, and sea vegetables, not being
> 100% raw.

Lol don't cop out on me like a fresh would. That would make me more interested to know if the research was credible, being that i do eat alot of cooked plant foods.

I can view things without bias, if the research is there ill evaluate like i do any other study. But i cast doubt if it actually exists because it just sounds like another Brian Clement quote to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2014 09:10PM by powerlifter.

Oh I am touched, pl, youve been thinking of me.

I agree with you..another quote from hhi.

love to know how u measure immune system, quite a complicated "system"

but brian clement does love his percentages, makes him sound smart.

you know by the way, pl, you dont help anything here by constantly harping
on 100 percent just so you can feel better about yourself.
we are all doing the best we can here on this planet.
if youre gonna get into a "but they lie" response, everybody has lied about
something or other.
worry about yourself instead of this constant 100 percent harping.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That isn't an study, thats just a quote which
> sounds like it originated from Brian Clement,
> where is the source study ?
>
> what methods did they use to evaluate decline in
> immune function from cooked food because we
> certainly don't see it from typical immune markers
> on a individuals blood test.



Yes, not my best written article by any means. I actually asked for it to be taken down because the article read too much like pheuoscience and didn't lend me much credibility, but they won't remove the archives. I also wanted to put up a more recent picture, not that aweful old picture from years ago (I will be doing a video with Santos Bonacci mid year, so you will be able to see a more recent image of me with clear shining skin, not a half detoxed starved mess lol).

I've been meaning to write to the Pasteur Institute to ask for references on the study...still haven't done it yet.

These days l try to avoid posting information that l can't verify with science or good reasoning. Blindly quoting others is a path to no-where. I have stepped out from the Brian Clement shadow and now do my own work. It's a much better path and l am more confident in the sproutarian lifestyle than ever before.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > That isn't an study, thats just a quote which
> > sounds like it originated from Brian Clement,
> > where is the source study ?
> >
> > what methods did they use to evaluate decline
> in
> > immune function from cooked food because we
> > certainly don't see it from typical immune
> markers
> > on a individuals blood test.
>
>
>
> Yes, not my best written article by any means. I
> actually asked for it to be taken down because the
> article read too much like pheuoscience and didn't
> lend me much credibility, but they won't remove
> the archives. I also wanted to put up a more
> recent picture, not that aweful old picture from
> years ago (I will be doing a video with Santos
> Bonacci mid year, so you will be able to see a
> more recent image of me with clear shining skin,
> not a half detoxed starved mess lol).
>
> I've been meaning to write to the Pasteur
> Institute to ask for references on the
> study...still haven't done it yet.
>
> These days l try to avoid posting information that
> l can't verify with science or good reasoning.
> Blindly quoting others is a path to no-where. I
> have stepped out from the Brian Clement shadow and
> now do my own work. It's a much better path and l
> am more confident in the sproutarian lifestyle
> than ever before.


What's the video going to be about?

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Maybe sproutarianman can chime in with the source
> study if it exists.
>

Personally l think the study has limited value because many things can effect immune system functioning. I will write to the French institute tommorrow and see if they can help me locate a reference. Even if they can't, l don't care. I have enough good information to promote a high raw diet to the public.

That article will haunt me forever. I can only do better. It was one of those `what were you thinking moments'. Never again will l release such low quality work.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well of course you don't believe since you
> > probably eat quite a bit of cooked food and
> DON'T
> > WANT to believe it. The Hippocrates diet
> doesn't
> > even need to be 100% raw and I think they
> actually
> > serve cooked food to their patients. It
> emphasizes
> > sprouts, algae's, and sea vegetables, not being
> > 100% raw.
>
> Lol don't cop out on me like a fresh would. That
> would make me more interested to know if the
> research was credible, being that i do eat alot of
> cooked plant foods.
>
> I can view things without bias, if the research is
> there ill evaluate like i do any other study. But
> i cast doubt if it actually exists because it just
> sounds like another Brian Clement quote to me.


It doesn't make sense for him to lie to "promote his raw food diet" when the Hippocrates diet isn't based upon 100% raw foods. Could it be inaccurate? Sure, but I highly doubt they would fake numbers just to do so.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Maybe sproutarianman can chime in with the
> source
> > study if it exists.
> >
>
> Personally l think the study has limited value
> because many things can effect immune system
> functioning. I will write to the French institute
> tommorrow and see if they can help me locate a
> reference. Even if they can't, l don't care. I
> have enough good information to promote a high raw
> diet to the public.
>
> That article will haunt me forever. I can only do
> better. It was one of those `what were you
> thinking moments'. Never again will l release such
> low quality work.


Sorry for posting it, I honestly didn't even know it was written by you until I went on the site for a second time and the sproutarian.com logo and then looked at who wrote it.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> What's the video going to be about?

Copper/zinc, EPA/DHA, phyto chemicals, enzymes, probiotcs, digestive enzymes, algaes, sea weeds, and why a diet should be at least 50% sprouts. I really want to get a strong credible message out there and provide links to numerous studies like Micheal Gregor does.

Hopefully Santos will also do a second video where Mr Kearns will make a rare appearance and discuss EMF waves and solutions, and myself provide the studies which show the dangers.

The three of us do want to change attitudes. Hopefully Santos isn't chucked in the clink for his FOTL activities, they are really trying to get him because he is a big fish they want to make an example of. I think he will be o.k.

at least TSM admits that his website needs some work and references. that is good.



I am still stumped on these though.


these are the easy ones.


-> Should all of the fruit, veggie, potatoes, rice transportation cease around the world? Should all the people of the world simply survive on sprouts and seaweed?

-> Can pregnant moms, children, athletes to thrive on the sproutarian diet?

->"At last we have the science and 55 years clinical research to prove that the sproutarian diet is the most health giving diet on the planet. "

I honestly don't know how one would prove such a grand statement. If just opinion, then great, whatever. and for any diet we must ask, for Whom? is it generally applicable?

95% of my website needs a complete overhall and is way below the standards l require. Most was written from the top of my head at the time.

The kind of standards that will be set is the type of work l am now doing in the `vegan diet problems' section. Even the vitamin D and omega3/EPA sections can be much improved. The `sprouted food is best' section is very low level, but it will be overhauled and much better written in the near future with references to almost everything....it will be the section where l do my best work. And the `sproutarian foods' section will be discussed in detail with studies. It will take at least a couple of years to get everything right....l am only 5% done so far. I have most of the info and studies saved up, l just need to go through thousands of pages and present it in a compact form (a big task). We'll slowly get there.

website aside,

-> Should all of the fruit, veggie, potatoes, rice transportation cease around the world? Should all the people of the world simply survive on sprouts and seaweed?

yes/no

-> Can pregnant moms, children, athletes to thrive on the sproutarian diet?

yes/no

It's very unhealthy to skip breakfast! I still do and will always do. My body loves it, and I know the benefits of it for over years of doing that.

Get Fit from Within
Nazafit Online Fitness and Nutrition - CHEK Holistic Nutrition and Lifestyle Coach, Master personal trainer, IPAC Physique conditioning coach and whole live food nutrition expert

[www.nazafit.com.au]

John, what do you think of doing a grape festing (eating Concord or other grapes for 2-3 weeks)? Could it be a replacement for juice fasting?

Thanks for all your great suggestions and analyisis, by the way!