We've been through these topics before and my replies are in most of those thread for people to see.

Was i recommending mercury laden tuna or salmon ? No what i did recommend was if people were consuming these foods to change to sardines which contain low to no levels of these toxic metals because there lower in the food chain and feed solely on plankton compared to bigger fish.

No where do i recommend dairy foods either or cheese.

The rest is Dr Gregers usual heavy vegan bias, if you actually read the studies that he references the majority of them don't come to the conclusions he MAY or MAY not be making.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 02:13PM by powerlifter.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes it is bias because, in truth, while
> turning
> > to animal foods makes eating less trouble free
> in
> > some regards you open up a Pandora's box full
> of
> > even worse problems by eating animals.
> >
> > Come on. You know that is the truth even
> though
> > you have decided those little details are not
> > worth being included to your warnings to
> people.
>
> Thats not being true or honest though either,
> because the studies on these foods show that its
> only excessive intake of these foods which cause
> the problems.
>
> Again being honest i don't disagree and i added a
> paragraph to the post above that consuming animal
> foods comes with alot of contraindications in
> itself. Too excessive intake like i said above has
> been linked to increased cancer risk such as those
> of the stomach and maybe even heart disease. Too
> much red meat, smoked, fried and processed nitrate
> containing meats have been implicated as the main
> offenders. Wrong seafood choices can result in too
> much exposure to toxic heavy metals such as
> mercury for example, but that doesn't mean all
> seafood is bad including sea vegetables, there are
> good choices and choices that provide many hard to
> get vegan nutrients.
>
> But again its about dietary balance, none of these
> studies recommend removing these foods from your
> diet completely and warn that doing so would
> likely result in the increased risk of these
> typical vegan deficiencies. They mostly always
> conclude that an excessive intake of animal foods
> isn't recommend and i would agree. Which is the
> honest conclusion these studies come too.
>
> If there were reliable vegan sources of these
> foods id be more than happy, i was vegan for
> multiple years myself. But unfortunately there
> isn't and thats why the majority of studies on
> vegans find these nutrients are deficient or low.
>
> These studies wouldn't be consistently reporting
> these findings if it wasn't common knowledge.

Let's get real, shall we? Even if we throw aside from the vastly important ethical aspects the 800 pound gorilla in the modern world's room is the never to be fully reported ongoing nuclear fallout and it's effects on the food chain. It falls out on water and grass. In todays world the lower you can eat on the food chain the better. Period. The problems of a raw vegan diet can be worked around. The problems of a meat and fish eating diet can not be.

PL, all references were from sicentific studies. You did not provide any. All you got is your self glorified opinion. You are not at the same level.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 02:16PM by Panchito.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The
> problems of a raw vegan diet can be worked around.
> The problems of a meat and fish eating diet can
> not be.

I have yet to be convinced that they can be worked around, especially without supplements.

Can these potential problems on a raw diet be worked around with supplements, possibly they can although even then we see its not enough for most individuals. Matt Monarch's got access to every common raw vegan superfood, b12 supplements, taurine etc in the world yet he's not exactly beaming with vibrancy.

Why are durianrider and co back on the cooked food ? these people were injecting b12, claiming to smash down multiple thousands of calories of fruit, yet are back eating cooked junk ?

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are durianrider and co back on the cooked food
> ? these people were injecting b12, claiming to
> smash down multiple thousands of calories of
> fruit, yet are back eating cooked junk ?

he? Why are you now trying to change the subject? Can you provide any counter references top the links I posted?

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PL, all references were from sicentific studies.
> You did not provide any. All you got is your self
> glorified opinion. You are not at the same level.

Did you actually read the studies that Dr Greger references in his video on the eggs for example ?

We've been through this already and my quotes from those studies are in that exact thread.

Also give me more than 30 seconds to reply if you want a study pulled up, mr impatient.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 02:23PM by powerlifter.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why are durianrider and co back on the cooked
> food
> > ? these people were injecting b12, claiming to
> > smash down multiple thousands of calories of
> > fruit, yet are back eating cooked junk ?
>
> he? Why are you now trying to change the subject?
> Can you provide any counter references top the
> links I posted?

Well DR and such were your mentors weren't they ?

You are one that makes me laugh the most Panchito because it was only less than 6 months back that you were a hardcore 100% raw 80/10/10 true believer chomping down on boxes of dates daily.

And now what a meager 6 months later and your now even recommending 25% of the diet be from cooked and higher fat foods.

Why is that ? What went wrong with the amazing 100% rawness that you used to so hardcorely promote ?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 02:26PM by powerlifter.

PL: ha ha. yeah, and people should read it to see that you don't have any comprehension skills. It is ridiculously low. I am stil waiting for your counter studies.

PL: STAY ON TOPIC. you cannot make claims and then try to changfe the conversation. The topic you raised was that meat is not bad. I have provided scientific links that say toi the contrary. YOu cannot make claims and then try to avoid converstaion your claims. You are promoting disease.

EDIT: PL has changed the response. Cheese, by the time I responded he had moved everything around. What a joke.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 02:35PM by Panchito.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PL: ha ha. yeah, and people should read it to see
> that you don't have any comprehension skills. It
> is ridiculously low. I am stil waiting for your
> counter studies.
>
> EDIT: PL has changed the response. Cheese, by the
> time I responded he had moved everything around.
> What a joke.

Counter studies to what ?, like i am saying did you actually read the source studies in the first place that Dr Greger provided ? Most of them aren't concluding what Dr Greger is saying. One even says there is little to no link between eggs and type 2 diabetes. (this was one of the studies Dr Greger actually provided)

Quote

In this cohort of older adults with limited egg intake, there was no association between egg consumption or dietary cholesterol and increased risk of incident T2D.

I also agreed in the thread about tuna and gave a proven safer alternative, verified by various health organizations as being safe and important sources of many nutrients, even for those who are pregnant 1-2 a week.

Yet my comprehension skills are in question lol. You like most other vegans are selective in what you wish to hear. As long as its pro-vegan of course.

You are more than happy to sit and post news article after news article slandering the paleo diet(which im no fan of myself), yet you can't handle hearing the vegan side of these things. Other members have noticed this in you, the bias is just as bad on both sides of the coin whether pro vegan or pro paleo.

No balance whatsoever.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 02:37PM by powerlifter.

I am still waiting for your studies. You see, I have posted studies that say the opposite of what you said. But all you do is to re-arrenge your opinions. Hope people see through.

Click on the study link and you'll see the response



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 02:41PM by Panchito.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am still waiting for your studies. You see, I
> have posted studies that say the opposite of what
> you said. But all you do is to re-arrenge your
> opinions. Hope people see through.
>
> Click on the study link and you'll see the
> response

I even posted a quote from Dr Gregers studies again for you directly above. Like i said i was in agreement about the tuna and im not a fan of dairy foods such as pasteurized milk myself. Raw milk might be better in that regard but its not a food i consume. Just because i advocate including a small amount of animal foods doesn't mean i recommend fried smoked foods, pasteurized milk or proven toxic foods such as tuna. Thats cherry picking as usual and you know i don't like these foods from my past posts.

You talk about me diverting, you completely ignored my post where i asked why you are now recommending a quarter of your diet to come from cooked foods ?

Have you given up on the all 100% raw mantra yourself ? Trouble sticking to an all raw diet ? It was only a few months back you were a hardcore 100% raw advocate, so there must be some reason for the radical change and in such short period of time.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 02:57PM by powerlifter.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> The
> > problems of a raw vegan diet can be worked
> around.
> > The problems of a meat and fish eating diet can
> > not be.
>
> I have yet to be convinced that they can be worked
> around, especially without supplements.
>
> Can these potential problems on a raw diet be
> worked around with supplements, possibly they can
> although even then we see its not enough for most
> individuals. Matt Monarch's got access to every
> common raw vegan superfood, b12 supplements,
> taurine etc in the world yet he's not exactly
> beaming with vibrancy.
>
> Why are durianrider and co back on the cooked food
> ? these people were injecting b12, claiming to
> smash down multiple thousands of calories of
> fruit, yet are back eating cooked junk ?


I don't know about Matt Monarch's diet but he doesn't appear to be doing badly to me. What are you seeing that I'm not?

Durianrider has a lot of rationalizations for everything he does so who really knows with him. My thought was that all that sugar intake works for the young and athletically oriented as long as they live like hamsters in a wheel. Once the get older and slow down though - it's all over for the 811 diet for most people on it. Unless they are fine with hugely accelerated aging appearances and chose to not ponder that their internal organs are getting the same glycation fusings.

In any case I think the best work around for raw vegans to maintain good health is living in places which get a lot of sunny days and are at latitudes conducive to getting at least some D producing UV light year round. People who live in those areas, or add those places in their vacation times, seem to be doing the best, IMO.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know about Matt Monarch's diet but he
> doesn't appear to be doing badly to me. What are
> you seeing that I'm not?

Really ? I always thought Matt looked a hundred times more vibrant and healthy on his before raw picture. To me he often looks emaciated, mal-nourished and not what id think of as vibrant. No offense intended as i enjoy his and Angela's videos and i think Angela looks well most of the time.

This is Matts before and after. To me he looks much better before. Although he looks tired in the first picture, he looks a 100 times more vibrant and healthy in the before picture.









Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 03:08PM by powerlifter.

To get back to BWs original question, having read Brenda Davis, Vesanto Melina, Jack Norris, and Ginny Messina, four reputable vegan RDs, there is no question that a well planned vegan diet, raw or not, is sustainable.

I agree with PL that some nutrients are more difficult to get on a vegan diet. However, if you plan well, many or most can satisfied with whole food sources or some exposure to sunlight.

B-12 is obviously the exception, though even here some whole plant chlorella hold promise though more work needs to be done.

Any diet needs to be well-planned to be successful, vegan or otherwise. But a well planned vegan diet is sustainable and nutritious and has some comparative advantages over an omnivorous diet. Lower exposure to toxins. Raw vegan is typically lower glycemic load, few Advanced Glycation Endproducts, and less exposure to organic cooked toxins like PAHs, HCAs etc.

If you think of the body as a machine and our GI tract as the fuel tank, many of the phytonutrients we get by eating more plant material is of huge benefit. More phytosterols, polyphenols, isothiocyanates, etc.

I think Chris is right that there hasn't been a lot study of vegans in general, esp raw vegans. But what there is may be based on a poorly planned vegan diet. If one is careful, I think being either raw vegan or just vegan is sustainable, ethical and delicious!

In my humble opinion.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 03:13PM by pborst.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't know about Matt Monarch's diet but he
> > doesn't appear to be doing badly to me. What
> are
> > you seeing that I'm not?
>
> Really ? I always thought Matt looked a hundred
> times more vibrant and healthy on his before raw
> picture. To me he often looks emaciated,
> mal-nourished and not what id think of as vibrant.
> No offense intended as i enjoy his and Angela's
> videos and i think Angela looks well most of the
> time.
>
> This is Matts before and after. To me he looks
> much better before. Although he looks tired in the
> first picture, he looks a 100 times more vibrant
> and healthy in the before picture.
>
> [i1.ytimg.com]
>
> [i1.ytimg.com]
>
> [30bananasadaysucks.com]
> 012/09/Picture-34.jpg?aa4864

Those are just snapshots. Here he is in a video for an hour and half with Dara taken 9 months ago and he looks great.

[www.youtube.com]

"At the end of the day, if the vegan diet was the most natural diet in the world as its promoted to be, how would we have lived before vitamin B12 supplements came along ? This is why there is no recorded vegan cultures ever discovered, strict veganism just simply isn't possible. If vitamin B12 supplements were banned for over-the counter/non prescription sale for any reason the day from tomorrow, then veganism would be over as an experiment."

1.) Before the last 5-6 generations, everyone produced enough of their own B12. B12 deficiency is a result of things like processed foods, drugs, pesticides, etc... which destroyed B12 in our bodies, resulting in deficiencies.

2.) Some vegan foods contain B12, like chlorella and nori.

3.) Veganism is possible, maybe not for people who give up when they face challenges like yourself, but you saying it's not possible is actually a huge compliment to people who have been doing this for decades.

4.) You admit yourself to taking a whole bunch of supplements.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1.) Before the last 5-6 generations, everyone
> produced enough of their own B12. B12 deficiency
> is a result of things like processed foods, drugs,
> pesticides, etc... which destroyed B12 in our
> bodies, resulting in deficiencies.

Yet even during these periods in human evolution there were still no strict vegan cultures documented that survived and weren't eventually extinct ?
>
> 2.) Some vegan foods contain B12, like chlorella
> and nori.

I don't disagree but the science is questionable at this stage for these pseudo-analogues of B12. Its abit early to be considering these as reliable sources of vitamin B12 just yet.
>
> 3.) Veganism is possible, maybe not for people who
> give up when they face challenges like yourself,
> but you saying it's not possible is actually a
> huge compliment to people who have been doing this
> for decades.

I like how newbie vegans such as yourself make out former vegans like myself just give up at the first hurdle. It does really annoy me because i tried my foremost effort to keep a vegan diet going despite feeling like crap on it for years. I was covering all the typical vegan supplements, i ate a great variety of foods, sprouts, sea vegetables, fruit, vegetables, lots of raw foods, periods of 100% raw which was even worse.

So yeah its a cop-out to hear you try to discredit my attempt at veganism, when you haven't even been doing this strictly for 2 months. I have much more real life experience with the vegan diet than many of you guys do, who try to belittle my attempt.

>
> 4.) You admit yourself to taking a whole bunch of
> supplements.

Yes i have tried lots of supplements and researched most of them, this was out of necessity in the hope some of them would improve my health at the time, most of them weren't even applicable to my problems. What does that have to do with any of this ?

I don't feel comfortable having to be dependent on any synthetic supplement to be healthy or to nutritionally complete your diet. It doesn't make sense. What happens if your body doesn't tolerate the synthetic B12 or iron ? If you can't afford and run out of these supplements then what happens then, do you just die from anemia because your too wrapped up in the concept of veganism.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 05:47PM by powerlifter.

"Yet even during these periods in human evolution there were still no strict vegan cultures documented that survived and weren't eventually extinct ?"

There is though...

[www.facebook.com]

Most cultures back in the hunter-gatherer times didn't live in locations where they could get enough plant foods, especially year-round, so they had to rely on animal products to survive. Fortunately, we don't have to live like that anymore.

"I like how newbie vegans such as yourself make out former vegans like myself just give up at the first hurdle. It does really annoy me because i tried my foremost effort to keep a vegan diet going despite feeling like crap on it. I was covering all the typical vegan supplements, i ate a great variety of foods, sprouts, sea vegetables, fruit, vegetables, lots of raw foods, periods of 100% raw which was even worse.

So yeah its a cop-out to hear you try to discredit my attempt at veganism, when you haven't even been doing this strictly for 2 months. I have much more real life experience with the vegan diet than many of you guys do, who try to belittle my attempt."

I haven't been doing this for two months? I've been raw vegan since July or August of last year. I think you're flat-out lying about the foods you consumed because you want to tell yourself veganism isn't possible because you personally don't want to follow it.

"I don't feel comfortable having to be dependent on any synthetic supplement to be healthy or to nutritionally complete your diet. It doesn't make sense."

Then why do you currently take a bunch of supplements?

Well if you want to believe im lying thats your own prerogative. You can check back my old account(powerlifer) where i talk about the benefits and eating these foods. Your not the first guys to come across sea vegetables, sprouts, algaes etc. I have been promoting these foods for nearly 10 years, often trying them just as they came on the market i.e blue-green algae which i now think is a horrible toxic haven.

Either way i still have much more experience with a strict vegan diet than you do, years more. We'll see if your still true believer once you've got a year of veganism under your belt, your a newbie at the moment as far as im concerned, 6 months or so is not long enough for you to be convinced this will work forever.

The only supplements i take TMG and kelp thats it. Sometimes i boost my diet with wheatgrass and other superfoods. I take whatever i can afford to boost my diet, but my diet doesn't rely on these supplements to be healthy. I can stop them and i wouldn't get anemia like you would if you stopped B12 as a vegan. I take TMG because its a great supplement for many people to get a therapeutic dosage of methyl-donors which wouldn't be obtainable via diet.

I take kelp which is the only sea vegetable i consume for a bio-available source of iodine and other trace elements that you can't typically get from land plant sources.

Would i die if i stopped any of these supplements, no because my diet provides other sources of iodine, b12 etc. Sometimes the supplements are to improve my athletic performance and recovery, but again im not reliant on these to be healthy.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 06:22PM by powerlifter.

I want to ask a slightly different question than BWs. Is veganism a sustainable, safe and ethical choice for today, irrespective of whether it is "natural" or not?

I don't want to be beholden to the past. I'd like to make my best chess move now for the planet, animals and myself. Why should I care about whether or not I can exist on vegan diet without supplementing, when I can supplement? Supplementing isn't a dirty word.

I don't believe veganism is "natural" for people. But I also don't think the question of whether it is "natural or not" is the right question in terms of making your decision today? Can you live on a vegan sustainably and in a healthy manner?

Yeah you can, and it's not that difficult. Are there some nutrients missing or at risk. Yeah to be sure. But pretty easily met through either whole foods or supplements. Vegans have the lowest prevalence of diabetes, high blood pressure and CHD among the cohort in the Adventist 2 health study. 13 percent lower cancer rates than other 7th day Adventists. Not too shabby.

Paul

"Either way i still have much more experience with a strict vegan diet than you do, years more. We'll see if your still true believer once you've got a year of veganism under your belt, your a newbie at the moment as far as im concerned, 6 months or so is not long enough for you to be convinced this will work forever."

This doesn't mean anything because there are tens of thousands of people, outside of the vegan culture I posted, that are thriving on a vegan diet. Would it really matter if I told you in a year that I was still doing well? You'd likely just accuse me of eating cooked foods or animal products.

"I can stop them and i wouldn't get anemia like you would if you stopped B12 as a vegan."

So why are there tons of vegans who don't have B12 deficiencies? Again, nori and chlorella has been scientifically linked to higher B12 levels. People who haven't killed off all the B12 in their bodies by consuming lots of toxic food likely have the ability to always produce their own. B12 deficiency does not only affect vegans.

"Your not the first guys to come across sea vegetables, sprouts, algaes etc."

No, but you just don't realize how vital they are. A few sprouts here and there or a miniscule amount each day is not enough.

PL is not telling his whole story. Before he was even vegan, he spent over one hundred thousand dollars on supplements like in a year being riddle with metabolic problems. His body is a puzzle of nature to this date. He's been on supplements since Tutankhamun. It seems that every week there is new discovery that explains why his body does not work right. Now he may have cut then for a week and say he does not take supplements. But he takes tons of herbs. His diet is the most unatural diet in the planet that not even astronauts dream off. Thus the irony of critizicing raw vegans taking supplements or things like nori. Lately, he has fallen into a sardine dietand now all other diets are inferior. Would anybody, even vegans, want to get advice from him?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 07:18PM by Panchito.

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I want to ask a slightly different question than
> BWs. Is veganism a sustainable, safe and ethical
> choice for today, irrespective of whether it is
> "natural" or not?
>
> I don't want to be beholden to the past. I'd like
> to make my best chess move now for the planet,
> animals and myself. Why should I care about
> whether or not I can exist on vegan diet without
> supplementing, when I can supplement?
> Supplementing isn't a dirty word.
>
> I don't believe veganism is "natural" for people.
> But I also don't think the question of whether it
> is "natural or not" is the right question in terms
> of making your decision today? Can you live on a
> vegan sustainably and in a healthy manner?
>
> Yeah you can, and it's not that difficult. Are
> there some nutrients missing or at risk. Yeah to
> be sure. But pretty easily met through either
> whole foods or supplements. Vegans have the
> lowest prevalence of diabetes, high blood pressure
> and CHD among the cohort in the Adventist 2 health
> study. 13 percent lower cancer rates than other
> 7th day Adventists. Not too shabby.
>
> Paul

Great post, and I whole heartedly agree!!

Go Vegan.

Vegan for President.

Lest anyone be mislead by the misrepresentation, I have been vegan and raw longer than I have been on this forum and have never stated that the dates coincide. Unsure where that assumption came from.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PL is not telling his whole story. Before he was
> even vegan, he spent over one hundred thousand
> dollars on supplements like in a year being riddle
> with metabolic problems. His body is a puzzle of
> nature to this date. He's been on supplements
> since Tutankhamun. It seems that every week there
> is new discovery that explains why his body does
> not work right. Now he may have cut then for a
> week and say he does not take supplements. But he
> takes tons of herbs. His diet is the most unatural
> diet in the planet that not even astronauts dream
> off. Thus the irony of critizicing raw vegans
> taking supplements or things like nori. Lately, he
> has fallen into a sardine dietand now all other
> diets are inferior. Would anybody, even vegans,
> want to get advice from him?

You are a fake raw vegan at the end of the day. Least im honest about what i eat.

Answer my one question seeing how you demand so much from me. Why are you now recommending 25% of the diet to be from cooked food ?

When you were a hardcore 100% all or nothing advocate only less than 6 months ago ?

What has changed in that short amount of time ?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 07:40PM by powerlifter.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are a fake raw vegan at the end of the day.
> Least im honest about what i eat.
>
> Answer my one question seeing how you demand so
> much from me. Why are you now recommending 25% of
> the diet to be from cooked food ?

he? I did not recommend anybody 25% cooked food. You misunderstand things because of your problems. You read what you want to read. What I said once was that a raw fooder could eat up to 25% cooked. That apparently angries you as you are trapped in your mental jail. How many cans of sardines do you recommend? If you recommend only a few, you may be b12, D deficient unless you supplement.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 08:15PM by Panchito.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> he? I did not recommend anybody 25% cooked food.
> You misunderstand things because of your problems.
> You read what you want to read. What I said once
> was that a raw fooder could eat up to 25% cooked.
> That apparently angries you as you are trapped in
> your mental jail. How many cans of sardines do you
> recommend?

Quote

A raw fooder can eat steamed veggies. The rule is that you can eat up to 25% of your calories cooked (preffered steamed). But if you want to be a 100% then you are more limited. It is the same as being called a fruitarian but also including salads, veggies, seeds, and nuts in small quantities. - Panchito

I hate to break it to you panchito but if your eating any level of cooked food your not a 100% raw vegan.

If your eating any level of animal foods then your not vegan.

I had to explain this to fresh in the other thread also, i cannot believe that you guys still don't understand the basic terminology around here. Veganism is someone who eats NO animal foods or uses NO animal products for that matter.

A 100% raw vegan is someone who eats NO cooked or animal foods. Not up to a quarter(25%) of their diet. Or the occasional cooked animal foods at social events whenever they feel like it.

Why can't people be honest and just say there high raw, instead of pretending to be something their not and promoting a diet they clearly don't follow.

What a sham this whole place and raw movement is.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 08:19PM by powerlifter.

he? I do not eat animal foods at all. Isn't the sham only in your head? Maybe your last sardines were not 100% mercury free. Hey Pl, have you ever tried to speak to the sardines? Next time you crack open a can, ask them how does it feel to be there. They may even tell you they are sorry for giving you mercury poison.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 08:29PM by Panchito.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> he? I do not eat animal foods at all. Isn't the
> sham only in your head? Maybe your last sardines
> were not 100% mercury free.

Did i say you ate animal foods ?

I said if someone eats animal foods then they are not vegan.

I was giving you a refresher course in the basic terminology around here, since your post considered a raw foodist to be someone who could eat up to 25 percent of their diet from cooked foods, which i guess is the biggest oxymoron of all time.

a raw foodist eating a quarter of their diet from cooked foods lol ive heard it all now.



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 08:41PM by powerlifter.