The guilt is only in your head. Being 100% raw is a personal decission that does not involve killing other animals. As far as I see it, if you are 99-75% raw, there is no sin in calling your self a raw fooder.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a sham this whole place and raw movement is.


I'm not really happy to be included in this statement. That you say it categorically makes you a liar. I think you should retract it if you want to be taken seriously by those of us who it doesn't apply to.

Oh, and have you forgotten to comment on what you think is wrong with how Matt Monarch is doing based on more than your two measly snapshots you used as evidence? He's obviously doing very well...

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 08:52PM by SueZ.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What a sham this whole place and raw movement
> is.
>
>
> I'm not really happy to be included in this
> statement. That you say it categorically makes you
> a liar. I think you should retract it if you want
> to be taken seriously by those of us who it
> doesn't apply to.

Obviously i wasn't meaning everyone on here of course, and i do believe you are raw. I feel ive had some decent chats with you despite different diet beliefs, so of course i wasn't meaning everyone. It was an off the cuff remark, that i really can't believe some of the crap i read on here.

As i do believe many others on here TSM, suncloud, Paul, Prana and such. But i can easily spot the fakers, although many of these people openly admit to eating cooked or animal foods themselves whilst pretending to be 100% raw vegans, so its not like im sherlock for pointing it out.

Panchito who comes across as a 100% raw foodist, this is the issue. Im done with it, im not away to sit for 10 pages going back and forth with you. A 100% raw foodist means someone who eats no cooked food, it shouldn't be this difficult to grasp.

Enjoy your vegan diet and i will enjoy mine. Bananawho wanted an honest opinion, she got mine. She's got yours panchito, i don't cry about your opinions, you should just ignore mines or debate them



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 08:52PM by powerlifter.

PL, to meet the b12 daily allowance, you need a minimum of three small sardines per day. How many sardines do you eat or do you also eat other animals?

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The guilt is only in your head. Being 100% raw is
> a personal decission that does not involve killing
> other animals. As far as I see it, if you are
> 99-75% raw, there is no sin in calling your self a
> raw fooder.


I'd say calling yourself raw even though 25% of your diet is cooked would be a bit misleading. Not that there's anything wrong or unhealthy with eating 25% lightly steamed veggies, it's just not raw. I could understand if it was 95%+ or something of that nature, but a quarter of the diet being cooked wouldn't be a raw food diet in my opinion.

Maybe people should add a number like:

10% rawfooder
50% rawfooder
75% rawfooder
100% rawfooder

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PL, to meet the b12 daily allowance, you need a
> minimum of three small sardines per day. How many
> sardines do you eat or do you also eat other
> animals?

Lol your kidding right ?. One can of sardines supplies over 300% of the RDA of bio-available vitamin B12, its one of the best sources of this nutrient discovered.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe people should add a number like:
>
> 10% rawfooder
> 50% rawfooder
> 75% rawfooder
> 100% rawfooder

Why so we can all be little sheep with our rigid diet labels and percentages ?.

Its simple just don't go around lieing and pretending to be something your not. Its really not that difficult, if your not 100% raw vegan then don't make out that you are on the forum.

If your still eating the occasional animal foods at social events then your not a vegan. Maybe a part time vegan if your really that into wanting a label.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 09:07PM by powerlifter.

That did not answer the question but:

[www.google.com]

Googke says: 1.1 ug Sardine, Atlantic, canned in oil 1 small

but RDA = 2.5ug

Again, the question is how many sardiunes do you eat per week?

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That did not answer the question but:
>
> [www.google.com]
>
> Googke says: 1.1 ug Sardine, Atlantic, canned in
> oil 1 small
>
> but RDA = 2.5ug
>
> Again, the question is how many sardiunes do you
> eat per week?

[whfoods.com] - Sardines Nutritional Info.

1-3 cans a week as per Dr Wilsons and the mediterranean diet recommendations. Dr Wilson says that at 1-3 cans a week you eliminate your need for a vitamin B12, vitamin D and omega-3(epa/dha) supplement in most cases other than treating deficiencies. All health organizations recommend this level of intake to be safe. Sardines are also wild, and caught when already dead. So there not typically killed as far as i know, there considered a sustainable food choice and are low to no accumulators for toxic metals. All other seafood choices other than kelp i feel aren't healthy choices however and too prone to toxic metal accumulation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 09:14PM by powerlifter.

Can of sardines?
Vegan do not eat sardines

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can of sardines?
> Vegan do not eat sardines

Of course they don't

But they also don't eat raw goats milk like you mentioned in the other thread.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1-3 cans a week as per Dr Wilsons

ha ha. This is just a sample of what you are really eating. From what I hear you really like rotten stuff.


putrescine (carcinogen)

nutritionfacts.org/video/carcinogenic-putrescine/

"Biogenic amines such as spermine, cadaverine, and putrescine are chemical compounds of decay that may have adverse health effects. Which foods are most contaminated: beer, blue cheese, feta cheese, kimchi, miso, sardines, sauerkraut, sausage, soy sauce, tempeh, tuna, or wine

Sardines were the runner-up, but the highest levels are found in tuna.

To stay away from putrescine, we should stay away from canned fish."


dioxins and methyl mercury

[nutritionfacts.org]

"The consumption of dark fish, such as salmon, swordfish, bluefish, mackerel, and sardines, may increase one’s risk of atrial fibrillation, an irregular heart beat rhythm associated with stroke, dementia, heart failure, and a shortened lifespan.


domoic acid

[nutritionfacts.org]

"A review was published recently on domoic acid, a potent neurotoxin found extremely rarely in seafood that can cause seizures coma death like the paralytic fish toxins, but mostly interestingly causes amnesia, permanent short term memory loss. If anyone’s seen the movie Memento, that’s what they’re talking about, anterograde amnesia.

This amnesic seafood toxin, has been found in tuna, anchovies, mackeral. sole sardines, halibut. And the diatoms that produce the original toxin that bioaccumulates up the food chain “appear to be increasing in frequency and toxicity, thereby presenting a continued threat to human health and seafood safety.

The toxin is heat stable, so “it is clear that cooking will not increase the safety of the products contaminated with domoic acid.” It does ‘’cross the placenta can enter the brain tissue, and accumulate in amniotic fluid"

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That did not answer the question but:
> >
> > [www.google.com]
> >
> > Googke says: 1.1 ug Sardine, Atlantic, canned
> in
> > oil 1 small
> >
> > but RDA = 2.5ug
> >
> > Again, the question is how many sardiunes do
> you
> > eat per week?
>
> [whfoods.com]
> d=147 - Sardines Nutritional Info.
>
> 1-3 cans a week as per Dr Wilsons and the
> mediterranean diet recommendations. Dr Wilson says
> that at 1-3 cans a week you eliminate your need
> for a vitamin B12, vitamin D and omega-3(epa/dha)
> supplement in most cases other than treating
> deficiencies. All health organizations recommend
> this level of intake to be safe. Sardines are also
> wild, and caught when already dead. So there not
> typically killed as far as i know, there
> considered a sustainable food choice and are low
> to no accumulators for toxic metals. All other
> seafood choices other than kelp i feel aren't
> healthy choices however and too prone to toxic
> metal accumulation.


From Brian Clement's book "Killer Fish"...

"In 2006 Spanish researchers discovered that sixteen different types of Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) were present in numerous species, including salmon, swordfish, mackerel, tuna, sardines, and shrimp. Of all groups tested, women and girls who ate these species had the highest PAH concentrations in their blood, meaning they had an increased risk of developing cancer."

Furthermore, you're not concerned about BPA from canned fish?

Powerlifter,

you did not correct me on anything as I am quite aware of what a vegan is and your continued slandering of people is pathetic.

I have not misrepresented myself as u repeatedly falsely assert.

what u can never understand is that u do not support the intent of this board which is why people question your presence.

its not about 100%

Nobody should be claiming 100 raw or 100% vegan
Because then we need to get into definitions and its pointless.

Ohh noes am i gonna diez ?

Theres toxins in everything, i could list the agricultural pesticides that are sprayed all over your conventional mangoes and fruit. Some of these are banned chemicals in other countries.

Do you actually bother to read any of Dr Gregers sources or just take his word for it as usual. If you would have read the source studies he provided, the sources of these toxins was contaminated shellfish and the study says:

The illness was named amnesic shellfish poisoning (ASP) and due to effective seafood monitoring programs there have been no documented ASP cases since 1987.

I do wonder about you Panchito unless your purposely trying to be dishonest. Both studies were about the same thing, last recorded outbreak was over 20 years ago lol and was from contaminated mussels.

So Dr Greger makes a video saying don't eat any seafood guys lol. What a joke.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 09:34PM by powerlifter.

BPA is also found in canned sardines

[nutritionfacts.org]

male sexual dysfunction

"They measured BPA levels in over a hundred fresh and canned foods, foods sold in plastic packaging, and in cat and dog foods in cans and plastic packaging. Nearly all the canned foods were contaminated, from green beans to sardines, tuna and V8 to Chef Boyardee. There was only one fresh, noncanned food that had detectable levels. So if you don’t buy canned foods, or stick to BPA-free canned foods, the only food left to worry about appears to be sliced turkey."

They can also be irradiated with cesium, strontium, Fukushima radiation, mercury, histamine, bacteria, posioned seeweed, etc

[www.bbc.com]

"At least 14 people have died in Madagascar after eating toxic sardines.

Officials say more than 120 people remain seriously ill after the incident in the south-western town of Toliara.

The government sent its condolences to the victims' families, promising to foot the medical bills of those being treated in hospital.

Samples of the sardines have been sent for analysis. In previous incidents, researchers said the contaminated sardines had eaten poisonous seaweed."

[www.ticotimes.net]

"The food chain took a turn for the fatal in a recent case of 500 brown pelicans found dead on an islet in the Pacific Gulf of Nicoya.

Scientists have discovered that these birds ate sardines contaminated with toxic algae, the daily La Nación reported."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 09:44PM by Panchito.

"Theres toxins in everything"

Which is a reason to consume even more?

"i could list the agricultural pesticides that are sprayed all over your conventional mangoes and fruit. Some of these are banned chemicals in other countries."

Unless you eat organic, of course, which I'm assuming most raw foodists do.

looks like a terrible choice to get b12 from. Look at all that stuff above.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Powerlifter,
>
> you did not correct me on anything as I am quite
> aware of what a vegan is and your continued
> slandering of people is pathetic.
>
> I have not misrepresented myself as u repeatedly
> falsely assert.
>
> what u can never understand is that u do not
> support the intent of this board which is why
> people question your presence.
>
> its not about 100%
>
> Nobody should be claiming 100 raw or 100% vegan
> Because then we need to get into definitions and
> its pointless.

Continued slander, are you kidding ?

I have never once slandered you or any others around here and i put up with alot of crap from you and a certain other individual in particular over the years on here, even when i was still vegan or at least vegan supportive. Ive been called many insults from you fools, idiot etc. When ive never once lowered myself to retort back to you, but i will debate you.

You do misrepresent yourself on the forum, if you don't want to believe that fair enough. Im not the only one who has brought this up in the past, i remember one member in particular was shocked to learn that you ate cooked and other foods, they were convinced like most others on here that you are a strict raw vegan. You present yourself as if you are accepting of nothing but 100% raw vegan.

I agree definitions are pointless,but until recently it was people like yourself and your mentor durianrider that engrained these labels, elitism and inter diet wars within the raw food movement, now these people are more relaxed, people like you are like who cares about 100% now lol. if your going to claim you are something, at least be truthful to it. Or just do the simple thing and don't claim your anything special diet wise.

If your going to claim you are breatharian for 80 years or completely raw vegan for 24 years with no supplements, then be prepared people will question the authenticity of such feats.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2014 10:07PM by powerlifter.

[articles.latimes.com]

"New data from Dr. David Caron’s lab at University of Southern California found that the gut contents of the dead sardines contained high levels of domoic acid, a powerful neurotoxin produced by the diatom (microscopic plant) Pseudo-nitzschia"

[www.forum.rivierareporter.com]

"The retailer Casino announced Monday the recall of batches of canned sardines contaminated with histamine, a compound that is resistant to cooking and can cause digestive disorders, skin and headaches. "

[www.unboundmedicine.com]
"Staphyloenterotoxicosis following the ingestion of contaminated sardines"

[www.thehindu.com]

"The fish, especially oil sardines, is said to be contaminated with ammonium chloride."

[www.foodsafetywatch.org]

"Scombrotoxin is most often associated with scombroid fish, especially tuna, skipjack, bonito and mackerel, but other non-scombroid fish, such as sardines, herring, pilchards, marlin and mahi-mahi have been involved in outbreaks of illness."

[optimalprediction.com]

"Security Tokyo has found uranium daughter isotopes in sardines caught in the Pacific off the coast of Ibaraki prefecture.

Proactinium-234m: 23 Bq/kg (uranium-238 daughter)
Thorium-234: 10 Bq/kq (uranium-238 daughter)
Cesium: 0.3 Bq/kg"

[digitaljournal.com]

"Energy news reports tons and tons of dead sardines have been washing up in Isumi City of Chiba Prefecture, at the Ohara port in Japan. Chiba is just south of Fukushima, and east of Tokyo."

Well at least no one will die from eating sardines from the Pacific coast of the US, Canada, or Mexico. There were none this year. Not one. There will be none from there ever again probably.

Since I am sure powerlifter is still here reading these posts every day....

>Continued slander, are you kidding ?

nope

>I have never once slandered you or any others around here and i put up with alot of crap from you and a certain other individual in particular over the years on here, even when i was still vegan or at least vegan supportive. Ive been called many insults from you fools, idiot etc. When ive never once lowered myself to retort back to you, but i will debate you.

if you don't want to be called a fool or an idiot, don't act like one.

there's a perfect example below where you stupidly (because you're an idiot and a fool??) assert that durianrider is my mentor.

this is just one of the many false, ignorant statements that you make.

so stop playing the poor me, I'm such a great guy, everyone is mean to me card.


>You do misrepresent yourself on the forum, if you don't want to believe that fair enough.

I do not. I transitioned over years to raw vegan, was raw vegan for many years and am now 99% .

and that is why I know that vegan is possible and healthy, based on my experience and based on the science.

The only reason that you don't agree is because you personally didn't do well, even though I explained to you why (you even think that a month is sufficient and you're supposed to feel well after a month, or whatever short period of time - which is one reason why it didn't work for you)

so where is the misrepresentation? post a quote from me and I will address it, or stop your childish accusations.

come back on here as TEMP and defend your slander.

>Im not the only one who has brought this up in the past, i remember one member in particular was shocked to learn that you ate cooked and other foods, they were convinced like most others on here that you are a strict raw vegan.

What about The fact that I was shocked to learn that you eat 25% raw food?
Should I accuse you of misrepresenting yourself since that was a surprise and a shock to me based on your posts?

I don't care how many members you claim are "shocked to learn".
We all present ourselves here and if someone makes a judgment that is their deal.
ask me a question and I will answer it. not hiding anything

>You present yourself as if you are accepting of nothing but 100% raw vegan.

I DO NOT. it's all in your head.

post a quote or shut your piehole.


>I agree definitions are pointless,but until recently it was people like yourself and your mentor durianrider that engrained these labels, elitism and inter diet wars within the raw food movement, now these people are more relaxed, people like you are like who cares about 100% now lol.


I say "who cares about 100%" because it is pointless and divisive to discuss it, and leads to infighting, not because it is not a good and healthy goal for someone if they so desire.


>if your going to claim you are something, at least be truthful to it. Or just do the simple thing and don't claim your anything special diet wise.

are you accusing me of something?

post a quote from me where I claim to be "special diet wise" or am lying .

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


>If your going to claim you are breatharian for 80 years or completely raw vegan for 24 years with no supplements, then be prepared people will question the authenticity of such feats.


another irrelevant statement.

SueZ, thank you for the link to her videos, she is fun to watch and seems like a nice person. I didn't know her, I will watch more of her videos.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

Ela2013 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ, thank you for the link to her videos, she is
> fun to watch and seems like a nice person. I
> didn't know her, I will watch more of her videos.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~


I am beginning to think that "Suez" IS that broad in the video. How many times is she gonna push that on us?

Well, Banana who, I don't see anything wrong in her posting the link to that video. Besides, she said that she thought of me when seeing the video, so I think it was very lovely of her to point that video to me

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

Ela2013 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, Banana who, I don't see anything wrong in
> her posting the link to that video. Besides, she
> said that she thought of me when seeing the video,
> so I think it was very lovely of her to point that
> video to me
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~


Not "wrong," but just over and over and over. I just saw another post where she's posting the same link. I will somehow find the strength to sit through it in the near future but it's getting to the point where I am wondering who SueZ really is. She sure burst on the scene and started in like she'd been here for years...

Hey BW,

Is the video that you are referring to?

[www.youtube.com]

Ela2013 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ, thank you for the link to her videos, she is
> fun to watch and seems like a nice person. I
> didn't know her, I will watch more of her videos.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~

Your welcome, Ela!. Tanny does seem like a nice person and she goes way out of her way to help people who are on the 80-10-10 style diet she has been on for 7 years now. She has helped a lot of people stay on it's fully raw version not only because of her recipes but because she is a wonderful, caring coach and a good example. (She is a first grade teach - and I bet she's great at that, too.)

Just because I don't care for that diet for myself I respect how Tanny is doing on it and how many really great low fat recipes she provides for people who choose to go low fat as you are doing.

She has also gone through some major life changing events and, IMO, offers a lot of thoughtful insights on handling difficult times while staying strictly low fat raw vegan.

[www.youtube.com]