"no it is not exactly the same.

perhaps you should consider sentience, and perhaps some other things as well."

"Getting the head cut off is not the same as cutting a lettuce of the ground."

So if someone gave you painkillers before they stabbed you, it would be okay then, no? I mean, you wouldn't be able to feel it. Life is life, you are not morally superior or causing less harm by killing and eating plants as opposed to killing and eating animals. Besides, you don't know for a fact that plants cannot feel pain. Anyways, whether they can or cannot feel pain is irrelevant, who are you to say that you and other animals deserve life more than plants do?

unbelievable. You think it is the same to cut a persons head than a head of lettuce

speechless

look here (warning very graphic video that I did not even watch. I just pasted the google link)

[www.mrconservative.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 01:49AM by Panchito.

"unbelievable. You think it is the same to cut a persons head than a head of lettuce

speechless"

It's only different to human beings because they are the one's on the receiving end of death, but in terms of nature, it is exactly the same thing. Life is life, it's survival of the fittest... whether you eat plants or eat animals, you are killing. It's nothing short of extreme arrogance to believe that humans and other animals have more of a right to life than plants, especially when we wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for plants. Humans are actually a burden to this planet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 01:54AM by jtprindl.

blah blah blah. You did not have time to watch the video I posted.

"blah blah blah."

Lol are you really this immature and close-minded in person? You simply believe what you want to believe and disregard all logic and evidence to the contrary, otherwise known as confirmation bias.

I just hope nobody ever follows the advice of such a mental fool

"I just hope nobody ever follows the advice of such a mental fool"

Typical hostility and incoherence from the high-fruit eaters... can't even have a logic-based, open-minded discussion with someone of a different view without resorting to insults.

no. you started with the insults. Look in the mirror. You could not even watch the video because you would @#$%& on yourself. Thus, your words do not support your actions and you are a fake.

bye bye



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 02:17AM by Panchito.

prindl,

all foods are exactly the same things.

all rocks are exactly the same.

can I kill and eat your dog yet? or just the fleas on your dog? neither? both?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 02:24AM by fresh.

"no. you started with the insults. Look in the mirror. You could not even watch the video because you would @#$%& on yourself."

When did I insult you? I described the way you are acting, which is immature and close-minded and engaging in confirmation bias.

"Thus, your words do not support your actions and you are a fake."

This doesn't even make sense. In case you forgot, this is what I said...

"It's only different to human beings because they are the one's on the receiving end of death, but in terms of nature, it is exactly the same thing. Life is life, it's survival of the fittest... whether you eat plants or eat animals, you are killing. It's nothing short of extreme arrogance to believe that humans and other animals have more of a right to life than plants, especially when we wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for plants. Humans are actually a burden to this planet."

You really act like a little kid, you only believe what you want to believe, then when your beliefs are challenged or refuted (as they are a lot), your ego can't handle it so you start insulting... and then you leave.

"can I kill and eat your dog yet? or just the fleas on your dog? neither? both?"

To me, it's not the same if my dog or a flea was harmed, but that doesn't mean one deserved harm more than the other. It's survival of the fittest, the whole point is that eating plants is still killing, just like eating animals, just like stepping on a bug, etc.. and that it's not "better" to kill one thing over another. Who are you to say plants don't deserve life as much as you or other animals, especially when you wouldn't even be here without plants?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 02:36AM by jtprindl.

jtprindl>>>
---Lol are you really this immature and close-minded in person?
---You having an arrogant, egotistical mindset

you better cut down on your fruit intake, jtprindl.
insults insults insults.

panchito was JUST DESCRIBING your foolishness and mental state, and his concern about your followers.

"I just hope nobody ever follows the advice of such a mental fool"


>To me, it's not the same if my dog or a flea was harmed, but that doesn't mean one deserved harm more than the other.

NOBODY said anything about DESERVING.
changing the argument as usual.


> It's survival of the fittest, the whole point is that eating plants is still killing, just like eating animals,

Nope, not the same.
you may also note that one of the benefits of fruit eating is that it does minimize "killing", unlike you sprout killers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 02:44AM by fresh.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> you may also note that one of the benefits of
> fruit eating is that it does minimize "killing"


For the plant it grows on but not for the fruit overeaters.

"NOBODY said anything about DESERVING.
changing the argument as usual."

I never changed the argument, you misinterpret what I originally say. If humans or animals don't, in your eyes, deserve life more than plants, then why is it wrong to eat animals and not plants?

"Nope, not the same."

How is it not the same? Life is life. You have to kill a plant to eat it. You have to kill an animal to eat it.

I've already said it's not wrong to eat animals from a basic ethic.

But other factors that your "logical" analysis is missing come into play.

and you do not need to kill a plant to eat it, as I have stated already.

"But other factors that your "logical" analysis is missing come into play."

Like sentience? You can't definitively prove that plants cannot feel pain, and even if they could, how is this a factor? Using that logic, it'd be okay to put an animal to sleep (pain-free) and then eat it.

"and you do not need to kill a plant to eat it, as I have stated already."

You're right, sometimes you only need to dismantle it. With that logic, you'd have to agree that it's okay to chop off an animal's leg or breast to eat it as long as we didn't kill it.

you are hopeless and seek out what you think are logical fallacies, when it is simply your inability to think wholistically

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you are hopeless and seek out what you think are
> logical fallacies, when it is simply your
> inability to think wholistically


And my earlier statement: "Typical hostility and incoherence from the high-fruit eaters... can't even have a logic-based, open-minded discussion with someone of a different view without resorting to insults." still stands

What are these factors you keep referring to? You seem to just want to believe you are doing something morally superior by eating plants as opposed to animals. Again, something is still harmed or killed. Using your logic, it's "better" for some reason to only harm or kill plants as opposed to animals.

you are a high carb eater, 60% I think. stop insulting people. you're bad. bad, I tell ya.


there is a qualitative difference between eating algae and taking a lamb from its mother and eating it. and we make judgments based on level of sentience and our empathy as humans given other choices with respect to foods.

in your black and white world , all living things are equal. and we get into "how do you know that they don't feel pain, etc etc"

you even agreed with me but didn't even know it.

"To me, it's not the same if my dog or a flea was harmed, but "

but you overlay this "deserved" word, thinking that gets you out of your trap. it does not.

you have fun in your little binary world there.

"there is a qualitative difference between eating algae and taking a lamb from its mother and eating it."

A difference to who and what is the difference? You, the algae, the mother, the lamb? To the mother of the lamb, of course there's a difference (losing family). For the lamb, of course there's a difference (death versus life). To the predator, it's food and propagates its survival. That's nature, things survive at the expense (death, harm) of other things, regardless of whether you hunted an animal or ripped kale out of the ground.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 03:46AM by jtprindl.

why are you arguing this point when you've already capitulated?

"A difference to who and what is the difference? "

right , what is the difference between the kale, flea and your dog?
why don't you eat all three?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why are you arguing this point when you've already
> capitulated?
>
> "A difference to who and what is the difference?
> "
>
> right , what is the difference between the kale,
> flea and your dog?
> why don't you eat all three?


Because they have a difference to ME, but despite this difference I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I'm not causing harm or death to living beings when I eat sprouts or fruit or algae etc. It's something that I accept and realize that it's apart of life. When one something survives, it's usually at the expense of something else.

>Because they have a difference to ME

that's all that matters. proving my point again.


>, but despite this difference I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I'm not causing harm or death to living beings when I eat sprouts or fruit or algae etc.

harm, yes. you fail to see a gradient of sentience. arrogant binary thinking.

"that's all that matters."

No it's not, because my perspective isn't the only perspective. Opinions aside, what is the difference in killing or harming an animal or plant to eat?

"you fail to see a gradient of sentience."

You fail to see that sentience is IRRELEVANT in terms of the end result.

I would prefer to eat a plant to minimize unnecessary suffering since relatively speaking I think they don't suffer much if at all. why is this so hard for you to accept?

not talking about end result, talking about what you would actually do, not some theory or logic test. you chose your dog. we are no different, it's just I'm honest and discerning and you're in binary land.

<<<I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I'm not causing harm or death to living beings when I eat sprouts or fruit or algae etc.>>>

When it comes to eating Fruit, you might not be arrogant, but you sure are IGNORANT because Fruit is the only Food that wants us to EAT IT! All the more reason to EAT MORE FRUIT!!!

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
> When it comes to eating Fruit, you might not be
> arrogant, but you sure are IGNORANT because Fruit
> is the only Food that wants us to EAT IT! All the
> more reason to EAT MORE FRUIT!!!


Maybe before toilets were invented fruit wanted us to eat it. If they still do they are more than a little behind the curve in ignorance.

"When it comes to eating Fruit, you might not be arrogant, but you sure are IGNORANT because Fruit is the only Food that wants us to EAT IT! All the more reason to EAT MORE FRUIT!!!"

More hostility from another fruitarian-style eater. John, do you ever respond without calling someone else an insult?....



"STOP CALLING THIS CLOWN A SMART DOCTOR!!!

This FOOL thinks that 95% of Cancers are Viral in Origin."


"Kwan, Why are you so naïve?

Interestingly, SueZ’s behavior is right out of Part Three in Defense Against the Psychopath"

"You have NO idea what you are talking about! I’m NOT talking about cellulite dimples. I’m talking about the dimples and indentations that come from Low Body Fat... That's Low Body Fat you FOOL!!!"


" Only FOOLS rely on Scientific Proof!!!"

"SueZ is a SHILL and is ATTACKING the MESSENGER and NOT the MESSAGE!!! SueZ is PAID to stifle this type of discussion because our Raw Food Message will NEVER reach the Masses as long as we do NOT have an avenue or a forum for its presentation. SueZ and her masters know this"


On and on this goes... you act like you're some type of expert who understands everything about diet and disease and is going to wake the world up because you know everything going on behind the scenes. You sound a lot more like an arrogant, paranoid individual with some sort of mental instability. Everyone besides you or people who promote being fruitarian is either a fool, ignorant, has no idea what they're talking about, etc. You simply cannot engage in a discussion without insulting at least one person. Hostility and lack maturity/open-mindedness are becoming the prime characteristics of many fruitarian-style eaters. When their beliefs are challenged, the insults come out because they seem not to be able to handle the "stress" of defending their beliefs without getting angry and able to be open-minded (trapped in ego and cognitive dissonance).

Fruit shills are shrill shills. They are always running on empty.

<<<More hostility from another fruitarian-style eater.>>>

Hey jt,

Apparently, you are using a different definition for IGNORANT and FOOL than I am using.

JR’s Definition:

IGNORANT: A person who is Lacking Knowledge.

FOOL: A person who has been TRICKED or FOOLED.

jt’s Definition:

IGNORANT: A Stupid person.

FOOL: A Chump.

“We shall never understand one another until we reduce the language to seven words.” -Kahlil Gibran

Remember, 93% of all Communication is Non-Verbal and if we were having this conversation in person, I guarantte you that you would NOT feel like you are being ATTACKED or that I am in any way being HOSTILE. All I did is call you IGNORANT and it was you how took it as Hostile.

Now let's pause, reflect and ask ourselves...

Are you - jt - IGNORANT?!?!?!

If you think we are Harming or Killing Fruit by Eating it, then, YES, you are IGNORANT in the context that I used it, just like the “smart doctor” is a FOOL because he has been TRICKED and FOOLED into believing that Viruses Cause Cancer.

"IGNORANT: A person who is Lacking Knowledge."

That would include every person on the planet. Anyways, the point is that you always are putting some type of label on another person in conversations.

"If you think we are Harming or Killing Fruit by Eating it, then, YES, you are IGNORANT in the context that I used it, just like the “smart doctor” is a FOOL because he has been TRICKED and FOOLED into believing that Viruses Cause Cancer."

Maybe not fruit, but fruits are not the only plant-based foods.