John Rose wrote:
Dr. Flora was very active on this website from 2-6-02 to 4-18-02 as she types 120 words per minute and wrote 40,218 words in just over 2 months. Since this website has crashed several times, I have posted all of her Posts in the Best of Dr. Flora in 2002 and in 2003 and I've been meaning to do so again, but have not got around to it yet.

Me:
Is this posted somewhere on this site or somewhere else?

What is the truth about Ann Wigmore and fruit? In the latest discussion about her, it seems it was low fruit and in this thread, it seems high frui whn she was in Puerto Rico. WHo started the low fruit diet...Ann Wigmore or Brian Clement?

Is this THE Dr. Flora? If it is is she a real Dr. or a typical HHI type Dr.?

[www.youtube.com]

She was too fat to be a fruitarian

SueZ:

I seem such to remember that the lady called Dr. Flora had a N.D. after her name. Now whether that was from an accredited Naturopathic College (there are 4 such four-year program colleges in the US & one in Canada last I heard) or whether it was from a month-long week-end program with a required 200 word dissertation at the end, which, with $100, gets you a beautifully framed doctorate diploma, partially in Latin, who knows.

The institutions listed below (& only those) have been accredited by the Council On Naturopathic Education (website www.cnme.org). They are all four year residential colleges, non-correspondence-school institutions:

The Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine
Tempe, AZ Accredited 1999

Bastyr University
Campuses in San Diego, CA & Kenmore, WA
Accredited 1987

National College of Natural Medicine
Portland, Oregon
Accredited 1991

University of Bridgeport College of Natural Medicine
Bridgeport. CT. Accredited 2006

National University of Health
Sciences
Lombard, Illinois (most recent one; accredited a few years ago)

Plus one in British Columbia & one in Ontario, Canada.

If I remember correctly, entrance to any one of them requires at least 2 or 3 years of undergraduate study, focusing on science courses.

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The institutions listed below (& only those) have
> been accredited by the Council On Naturopathic
> Education (website www.cnme.org). They are all
> four year residential colleges,
> non-correspondence-school institutions:
>
> The Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine
> Tempe, AZ Accredited 1999
>
> Bastyr University
> Campuses in San Diego, CA & Kenmore, WA
> Accredited 1987
>
> National College of Natural Medicine
> Portland, Oregon
> Accredited 1991
>
> University of Bridgeport College of Natural
> Medicine
> Bridgeport. CT. Accredited 2006
>
> National University of Health
> Sciences
> Lombard, Illinois (most recent one; accredited a
> few years ago)
>
> Plus one in British Columbia & one in Ontario,
> Canada.
>
> If I remember correctly, entrance to any one of
> them requires at least 2 or 3 years of
> undergraduate study, focusing on science courses.

From the FAQ's page at your link...


"Does CNME recognize home-study schools or external-degree programs?

Many correspondence schools offer N.D. or N.M.D degrees or diplomas. Some are exempt from state regulations because they claim a religious purpose or they do not recruit students from their home states. Correspondence programs do not prepare students for practice as state or provincial licensed naturopathic physicians, and the programs are not eligible for affiliation with our agency. In states and provinces without licensing laws, it is generally not illegal for those who obtain N.D. or N.M.D. degrees from correspondence schools to use the initials after their names; they may not, however, legally represent themselves as physicians or engage in the practice of medicine unless they are otherwise licensed as medical practitioners. Although correspondence courses can be effective in many disciplines, naturopathic licensing agencies do not believe they are adequate for preparing students to practice as licensed physicians. The American Association of Naturopathic Physicians and the Canadian Association of Naturopathic Doctors do not consider those who obtain N.D. or N.M.D. degrees from correspondence schools to be part of the naturopathic medical profession."

Still seems actively typing on the web, (Dec 23, 2014), and still using "Dr." as a title...

[www.vegsource.com]

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this THE Dr. Flora? If it is is she a real Dr.
> or a typical HHI type Dr.?
>
> [www.youtube.com]

From this link (where she claims no bogus titles) the answer appears to be she falls into the second category...


[www.linkedin.com]

I don't know if an International University in Los Gatos existed in the past but there seems to be no such thing there now.

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ:
>
> I seem such to remember that the lady called Dr.
> Flora had a N.D. after her name. Now whether that
> was from an accredited Naturopathic College (there
> are 4 such four-year program colleges in the US &
> one in Canada last I heard) or whether it was from
> a month-long week-end program with a required 200
> word dissertation at the end, which, with $100,
> gets you a beautifully framed doctorate diploma,
> partially in Latin, who knows.

If you can type 120 words a minute that's less than a two minute dissertation.
It would probably take longer for the ink to dry on your name on the diploma.

>
> From this link (where she claims no bogus titles)
> the answer appears to be she falls into the second
> category...
>
>
> [www.linkedin.com]
> n/25/868/232


***Oops, I spoke too soon - she actually did slip back into bogus "Dr." mode in the text...

"With 2 other doctors, we freely taught the living food program of Dr. Ann Wigmore "...

About 10 years ago, some Naturopathic Doctors managed to get a statute passed insofar as, among other things, to rather dramatically upgrade the education of N.D.'s practicing in California. See www.naturopathic.ca.gov. Basically, following passage of the statute, any naturopathic practitioner who had not graduated from one of the 4-year resident schools had to advise their client/patient that they were not a Naturopathic Doctor, but rather a practitioner, and they could no longer use the N.D. affix to their professional name. Needless to say there were a lot of unhappy formerly known as N.D.s at that change-over. And passing "Boards" (NLEX) prior to licensure of N.D.s in California was new also. There are currently about 13 or 14 other states that have passed similar legislation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2014 10:40PM by KFCA.

KFCA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About 10 years ago, some Naturopathic Doctors
> managed to get a statute passed insofar as, among
> other things, to rather dramatically upgrade the
> education of N.D.'s practicing in California. See
> www.naturopathic.ca.gov. Basically, following
> passage of the statute, any naturopathic
> practitioner who had not graduated from one of the
> 4-year resident schools had to advise their
> client/patient that they were not a Naturopathic
> Doctor, but rather a practitioner, and they could
> no longer use the N.D. affix to their professional
> name. Needless to say there were a lot of unhappy
> formerly known as N.D.s at that change-over. And
> passing "Boards" (NLEX) prior to licensure of
> N.D.s in California was new also. There are
> currently about 13 or 14 other states that have
> passed similar legislation.

Thanks for all your work, KFCA! You certainly is sheading a lot of light on the subject.

I noticed a list of the other states, etc.,in the FAQ's section in your previous link, www.cnme.org ...



"6.Where may N.D.s practice?

Sixteen states and four provinces allow the practice of naturopathic medicine: Alaska, Arizona, British Columbia, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Maine, Manitoba, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Ontario, Oregon, Saskatchewan, Utah, Vermont, and Washington. Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands also have licensing laws for naturopathic doctors. In a number of states and provinces where there is not yet professional licensure, naturopathic medical associations are actively engaged in legislative initiatives to pass licensing laws. The scope of practice varies from state to state and province to province. In states and provinces without naturopathic licensing laws, many who hold the N.D. degree also hold other degrees, such as the Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Chiropractic, or Masters in Oriental Medicine degree, and they practice under licenses for those professions. Others offer services that do not violate their states and provincial medical practice acts. Most naturopathic physicians are in the states and provinces that regulate the profession."

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KFCA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > About 10 years ago, some Naturopathic Doctors
> > managed to get a statute passed insofar as,
> among
> > other things, to rather dramatically upgrade
> the
> > education of N.D.'s practicing in California.
> See
> > www.naturopathic.ca.gov. Basically, following
> > passage of the statute, any naturopathic
> > practitioner who had not graduated from one of
> the
> > 4-year resident schools had to advise their
> > client/patient that they were not a
> Naturopathic
> > Doctor, but rather a practitioner, and they
> could
> > no longer use the N.D. affix to their
> professional
> > name. Needless to say there were a lot of
> unhappy
> > formerly known as N.D.s at that change-over.
> And
> > passing "Boards" (NLEX) prior to licensure of
> > N.D.s in California was new also. There are
> > currently about 13 or 14 other states that have
> > passed similar legislation.
>
> Thanks for all your work, KFCA! You certainly is
> sheading a lot of light on the subject.
>
> I noticed a list of the other states, etc.,in the
> FAQ's section in your previous link, www.cnme.org
> ...
>
>
>
> "6.Where may N.D.s practice?
>
> Sixteen states and four provinces allow the
> practice of naturopathic medicine: Alaska,
> Arizona, British Columbia, California,
> Connecticut, Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Maine,
> Manitoba, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, North
> Dakota, Ontario, Oregon, Saskatchewan, Utah,
> Vermont, and Washington. Washington, D.C., Puerto
> Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands also have
> licensing laws for naturopathic doctors. In a
> number of states and provinces where there is not
> yet professional licensure, naturopathic medical
> associations are actively engaged in legislative
> initiatives to pass licensing laws. The scope of
> practice varies from state to state and province
> to province. In states and provinces without
> naturopathic licensing laws, many who hold the
> N.D. degree also hold other degrees, such as the
> Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Chiropractic, or
> Masters in Oriental Medicine degree, and they
> practice under licenses for those professions.
> Others offer services that do not violate their
> states and provincial medical practice acts. Most
> naturopathic physicians are in the states and
> provinces that regulate the profession."

(Opps, I meant to type "shedding" light not sheading)


I wonder if the "Drs." Clement are allowed to get away with calling themselves that while they are in Hippocrateswest in CA?

[www.hippocrateswest.org]

As I understand the California law, neither Dr. could use can use "N.D." after their names in signs, business cards, advertising, or in patient treating associated with their California facility unless they have been licensed here by the California Board of Naturopathic Medicine. Orally and in writing, they would have to advise any patients they might "treat" here that they are NOT licensed "Doctors of Naturopathy" but only "practitioners" in the State of California, if that be the case. If customers want to continue knowing this, that's up to them.

BTW, I should mention that there are NO regulatons/requirements in California (& likely other states) as to claiming "practitioner" status in the naturopathy field. There are no "junior college"-type programs, testing standards, etc. Unfortunately, it's currently a very much a buyer-beware/anything goes situation. Oddly.

KFCA isn't it good that there are no regulations. Who would be the boss? Who would be the ruler of naturopathy? I think nature. That which speaks to everyone differently.
Noone is in charge, we are all explorers and new things discovered every month. There are things that stand the test of time, ancient scams even. We all think so differently than our parents and ancestors.

coconutcream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KFCA isn't it good that there are no regulations.
> Who would be the boss? Who would be the ruler of
> naturopathy? I think nature. That which speaks to
> everyone differently.
> Noone is in charge, we are all explorers and new
> things discovered every month. There are things
> that stand the test of time, ancient scams even.
> We all think so differently than our parents and
> ancestors.

When you are in the position of being at risk of dying shortly, as many people are when they are willing to fork out upward of 10k for alternative "medicine", some sort of vetting should be available. This is possible due to there now being accredited N.D. schools. I like it.

Let those who put in the hard work and have at least passed tests of their understanding of the knowledge do the vetting. If the diploma mill N.D.s are as confident of their competency as they would have us all believe they are, they should have no problem if they are offered the opportunity to be grandfathered into the new system, on some level, if they can pass the same exams as the bona fide N.D.s can pass. If the bar is too high for them they can just go back to being plain old Brian and Anne Marie, etc. Everyone will still be able to make their own choice of who they choose to hire but have more basis for making that important call more quickly.

Ok I agree if it costs 10 grand.

But a lot of that money would be to pay for your food and rental, so its like a mini vacation.

I learned so much when I stayed in Ann Wigmore's Puerto Rico retreat, about gardening, composting, sprouting, fermenting, and I ate papayas with green energy soup and it was a real nice vacation.

I also paid this lady for four colonics in a week.


All of it. even if there is nothing medical, was very healing to me. I arrived a broken soul and was fixed again and recharged.

Just by playing with dirt and worms in the greenhouse...oh, and wheatgrass up my butt.