SueZ wrote:
I have looked into "Dr." Morse's degrees and they are anything but real.

Tai:
From my faint memory, I recall his biochemistry degree as honorary, his ND degree to be given so many years/decades ago, when schooling was very loose for NDs, and some kind of actual accredited schooling to be able to be a nurse working in hospitals.

SueZ, I am sorry you got injured. I do recall now him saying over and over that when you are healing, it is better to rest and not overdo it, even approaching rebounding with caution and calculated strategy. He has always stressed physical relaxation on his program. I am not glossing over what happened to you.

I stopped being really excited by his dietary protocols when I noticed in myself that too much fruit (which unfortunately did include some dried stuff) was bad for my teeth. (In defense of fresh juicy fruit, I used to snack on Living Intentions raw vegan products, while I was following Robert Morse's protocols. When my teeth became sensitive, I read the ingredients and saw they used coconut sugar. That was terrible and I quit eating their cereals and sweet dried nuts after that.) I went heavy into greens after that, and was for some time unable to eat even sweet grapes without some teeth sensitivity. Luckily I know what greens to use for that. And so in my own healing with greens, I sadly saw that Robert Morse was truly missing so much of the puzzle by not becoming an expert himself with fresh raw greens and instead relying on dried herbs and glandulars. Although disenchanted with his fruitarian philosophy, I still find his lymphatic understanding to be very useful, both dietary and herbal wise, in terms of getting results with healing. SOme of his case studies deserve serious study, which I did.

You see that he does he get results in some people as shown by iridology. Michael Tierra, a famous acupuncturist and herbalist, told me he thought iridology was bogus after he studied it and practiced it in depth for some time. He never saw changes in the iris. BUT Michael never used radical detox protocols. He is relatively conservative in his approach. Who got results with iridology? I can name four that I know of (having seen their before and after photos): Bernard Jensen (and his daughter-in-law, Ellen), Robert Morse and Leonard Mehlmauer. All these four people use radical detox protocols and hence they see deep tissue cleansing. I even know one acupuncturist that uses a lot of herbs and bodywork and even he sees iris changes. It was because of studying RObert Morse's course that I also decided to study iridology. Michael Tierra warned me to not pursue it, so I didn't for several years, but Robert Morse convinced me to study it.

My heart goes out to you, but I am still going to refer to Robert Morse at times, because he does have certain success. It's like this...I love Datis Kharrazian, my functional medicine teacher, but his blinder is diet. He will NOT treat vegans or, I think, even vegetarians, but when I have confronted him about the finepoints of leaky gut syndrome and auto immune disorders, he has nothing to retort to me regarding the animal diet he promotes. He just cannot fathom a healthy vegan diet, when he has no positive experience in it. Anyway, just because I cannot agree about diet with him, I am very impressed by his supplement and functional medicine understanding. The same with BRian Clement. I use fruit all the time in my protocols with people, so I don't agree with him about fruit, but that doesn't stop me from learning from him about other things. Just the same with Robert Morse. THe same with my Chinese teachers. The only things I learn from them about diet are the vegan things. I file away the animal info.

I watched the video that HH shared about Mango (see below). To me, it was a frightening video about fruitarianism. I watched with repulsion as they ate sapote straight, which are sickeningly sweet by themselves. I did not see them wrap up such sweet fruit even in some green leaves to balance it even a little. Anyway, despite Mango losing 8 teeth in one season and probably more in later years, I was still open and willing to learn any truth from him. After all, he used to be a computer programmer, so he is not an idiot. He too describes his irises changing color, like Fullyraw Kristina. I believe this has to do with the deep lymphatic cleansing that occurs with certain fruit consumption over time, in his case. With Bernard Jensen, it was a little different because he promoted direct colon cleansing. Anyway, Mango illustrates the good and the bad with fruit.

Posted by: HH ()
[vimeo.com]

Robert Morse describes himself as a glorified plumber. I think that is apt. He knows how to cleanse the lymphatic system. Some of his best case studies could not stay on his diet long term. And that is a real problem with the fruitarian philosophy: not showing any moderation. If he had a wider philosophy, he could have put people on healthy maintenance diets, and cut out all silly ideas that all his clients should eat fruit in abundance year round, and all his disappointment at not eating good watermelon year round. Why do I say silly? Because of too much tooth decay or his clients going back to an omnivore diet. If he had a healthy attitude about balanced diets, his clients would not go back to a diet that hurt themselves in the first place. And even he, himself, Robert Morse could stick to a realistic healthy diet..

Tai, my problem with "Dr." Robert Morse is that he puts letters after his name that represent degrees which he has not earned to sell books, gain "clients", teach others (some of whom he also bestows further degrees upon), sell CD sets and to sell products both from his own "clinic" and through his "degreed" student's businesses. That is called fraud. That is fraud.

SueZ
He doesn't offer degrees. He gives his students certificates. There is no fraud in giving a certficate. Look at how even three day workshops give out certificates in many fields. It just means you completed a course. A certificate doesn't give you even a license to touch a person. That he allows the students who completed his coursework to buy at a wholesale level does not constitute fraud, sorry to say. Whether someone resells those products is up to them. As far as I understand, many people just want to help themselves or their families. If someone does start selling, it is a legal act, and they should obtain a business license, etc. In most place, you need at least a massage license to even touch someone, so it's not a small matter if someone wants to LEGALLY engage in business.

To be honest, I have not even looked at all his products and have not looked at his website in so long. I am not here to defend someone who sells glandulars to laypeople.

I guess I met so many NDs with hippie education that I was just fully aware learning from him that RObert Morse was a hippie with short hair. Once and for all, sorry to say, but ND doesn't mean anything unless you trace back the education, because some people got their letters decades ago. My father almost finished medical school when he was young and when I introduced Robert Morse to him, he couldn't stand to watch him. My dad is not hippie-friendly.

SueZ, your testimony has powerfully changed my stance on Robert Morse. I was a lot more forgiving of his dietary ommission until I shared with you. Now I truly do see how some people really can be taken by titles, which I never was, (So it was hard to relate) and follow things, even though they may not make sense or feel right to them. Okay, you convinced me of how unacceptable certain things are about what he shares.

At the same time, I have seen you scoff at the dietary recommendations coming from real medical doctors like JOhn McDougall. And in turning your back to Dr. McDougall, you turn to a non-licensed dietary advisor. I am not following your logic.

Actually in following the raw food diet for over a decade now, I have ended up quoting from Dr. McDougall and Charlotte/Dr. Max Gerson as a default, because there is so much scandal in the fullyraw food world. T. Colin Campbell, DR. Esselstyn, and Dr. McDougall really did amazing things in their careers. It's not the end all be all, but their help is for the masses not for a tiny percentage that can spend all day or a ton of money on their diet. The only medical doctors who are really excellent herbalists are the Chinese, that I know of, and these are the people I was trained under to be an herbalist and acupuncturist. I really cannot hold up western medical doctors to the same standard as the Chinese, in terms of being holistic. We have to just accept that we might need to get herbal help from non-medical doctors USUALLY and most of the other help from real medical doctors.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the same time, I have seen you scoff at the
> dietary recommendations coming from real medical
> doctors like JOhn McDougall. And in turning your
> back to Dr. McDougall, you turn to a non-licensed
> dietary advisor. I am not following your logic.

Tai, I am not interested in following ANY cooked and packaged food diet - especially one that relies highly on what I know of as glues and pastes. I find a raw vegan diet to be vastly superior.

"Dr." Morse is just another guy who hasn't earned the degrees he uses and is thusly fraudulently presenting himself to the market as a vetted authority to gain people's confidence in his abilities. He knows what he is doing in that regard and why he is doing it. It is not something ethical people do. It just isn't. There is no excuse for it.

P.S. to SueZ
In my profession, we are strongly discouraged from selling herbal supplements from websites, as we are supposed to do an in-person differential diagnosis (within Chinese medicine). Giving the drastically wrong herbal formula is considered malpractice (ex. tonifying the excessive or purging the deficient). If someone wants to see me or another licensed practitioner, they have to pay a consultation fee in addition to the herbs. Not everyone can afford that. So, it is no wonder that many herbal companies, like Robert Morse's, offer generic parasite formulas, generic laxatives, generic everything. IT's hit or miss. If it doesn't work, you have to see a professional. If it does work, you just saved some money. In my field, we write formulas, modify formulas, and make fully custom herbal products for each person, unless standard formulas are sufficient. But that extra customization costs more money.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P.S. to SueZ
> In my profession, we are strongly discouraged from
> selling herbal supplements from websites, as we
> are supposed to do an in-person differential
> diagnosis (within Chinese medicine). Giving the
> drastically wrong herbal formula is considered
> malpractice (ex. tonifying the excessive or
> purging the deficient). If someone wants to see
> me or another licensed practitioner, they have to
> pay a consultation fee in addition to the herbs.
> Not everyone can afford that. So, it is no wonder
> that many herbal companies, like Robert Morse's,
> offer generic parasite formulas, generic
> laxatives, generic everything. IT's hit or miss.
> If it doesn't work, you have to see a
> professional. If it does work, you just saved some
> money. In my field, we write formulas, modify
> formulas, and make fully custom herbal products
> for each person, unless standard formulas are
> sufficient. But that extra customization costs
> more money.

Yes, I can appreciate that customized care is what is done by serious and upright professionals - regardless of formal schooling or lack thereof.

SueZ wrote:
"Dr." Morse is just another guy who hasn't earned the degrees he uses and is thusly fraudulently presenting himself to the market as a vetted authority to gain people's confidence in his abilities. He knows what he is doing in that regard and why he is doing it. It is not something ethical people do. It just isn't. There is no excuse for it.

Tai:
Again, I am not sticking up for him as a representative, because I can't back the glandulars and fruitarian diet, but I will say one thing for him. I don't feel he is fraudently presenting himself as an authority. How do I know about his education? Because he plainly said so. He wasn't ever trying to hide anything. He talked about some correspondence course he was still in the middle of. No, he doesn't hide that he does correspondence work. He talks about the honorary degree he received. He talks about himself being a simple country boy. He bares his soul to the world. He doesn't make a ton of youtube videos for mere hits. It is to be transparent and clear about his philosophy and protocols. If he wanted to hide who he was, and his education, he would not bare himself like that.

THis is the image I had of him after listening to him describe his education and life (not from reading the letters after his name), hippie man who started a family at a young age. He got educated the best he could while raising a family. He did construction for a living and later became a nurse. At some point he started an herb company and has helped people for a long time with herbs and iridology. He tried naturopathy with testing (like Carey Reams RBTI) and using minerals and vitamins but threw it all out the window. He has totally distanced himself from modern naturopaths and he makes it NO SECRET. He shoves it into people's faces when they listen to him that he is no modern naturopath. He is old school and one that uses almost nothing of current naturopathy. He says it over and over. He makes himself transparent. He has shown people all his certificates and said it doesn't mean anything. His go-to diet was fruitarian because that is what his ultimate healing came from in his early life and so that is what he used with others. His diet ideas came more from personal experimentation than from university research. His ideas are definitely on the fringe, but he has had some amazing successes. He talks about his out of body experiences and his psychic connection when he makes formulas. He never hints that he goes deep into research books to make his formulas. BUYER BEWARE. He doesn't hide what a newage hippie he is. He puts it in your face every other video. THere is no way to not know what a fringe man he is by listening to many videos of him. He even declares upfront that his lymphatic system theories are not textbook, and they are controversial. He pretty much explains that if you want modern, orthodox and standard, please go elsewhere.

Where is the fraud if he is constantly exposing himself? Here is a man that says he lived on oranges for six months and left his body repeatedly and uses his intuition to make herbal formulas. BUYER BEWARE. In Chinese medicine, there is so much clinical data for herbal formuals over a long time. I didn't go to Robert for that. I wanted to know how he cured scoliosis and spina bifida and helped severe paralysis.

Anyway, I don't mind you venting because you have a legitimate complaint, but I will stand up for him that he has made himself transparent, IF you listened to enough videos. But if you didn't listen to his videos and just focused on his title, then yes, I understand your frustration. Anyway, I am basing all that I am saying on his early videos. I stopped listening a long time ago, I just listened to him the first year or so he put out the videos. Maybe he assumes everyone has listened to his intro videos.

SueZ wrote:
Yes, I can appreciate that customized care is what is done by serious and upright professionals - regardless of formal schooling or lack thereof.

Tai:
Again, I don't endorse the fruitarian diet like he does, but he is available for in person or phone consultations. It's not like some herb companies, like Dr. SChulzes', where you have zero access to Dr. SChulze.

Tai, there are SEVERAL more issues I have with "Dr." Morse's song and dance but I'm going to stick to the most glaring which is his use of a degree he has not earned to sell books and products and his ideas with because there is no excuse for doing that. It's unethical - at the very least. Period.

Is there any reason to believe he even has a legitimate nursing degree? If he has a nursing degree why aren't those letters after his name on his book, etc.? I now have my doubts he has ANY legitimate higher learning degrees, quite frankly, but I am open to reason and proof.


Tai, no you don't know about his education because he "plainly said so" he still has those degree letters which he keeps firmly attached to his name. No one does that to him. He does it to himself. He has carefully cultivated an ambiguous image, IMO.

Tai, one last thing. I remember "Dr." Robert Morse saying on one of his videos that he had a degree in biochemistry. He defiantly did not say that it was an honorary degree. Maybe that's something he just tells to his private health club members/students, in private, once he has gotten them into his fold.

Nobody legitimate gives away honorary biochemistry degrees, Tai. It just doesn't happen. You should know that.