Someone asked me in a PM what I had posted that Tavis recommended, in bark form, for calcium. All I could remember was that Tavis never made such a recommendation that I had ever heard or read about but I couldn't remember what I had found it or posted it either.

Yesterday I spent most of the day in the kitchen and while there I ran across my package of Arjuna bark which reminded me I had bought it for it's calcium content.

I'm not recommending it, it's just something I take in my experiments on myself. Don't take it without doing your homework as it may be counter indicated for individuals who are not me.

Maybe someone interested it the subject will have time to post some links. I don't, at the moment, just putting this out there,

I have never used this herb and would like to know more about it.
I use western herbs and Chinese herbs. I was never trained in Indian herbs, except a few culinary ones.

There are many herbs that are high in calcium. In herbalism, we try to use the herb that matches the person's constitution the best. Gou qi zi root bark (Goji berrie vine) has high calcium but it's cooling. Huai niu xi root is high in calcium but it guides energy and blood flow to the lower body, especially knees and legs, feet, etc. So if you need rebuilding in upper body, you would not take huai niu xi just for the calcium. White oak bark is astringent, so one may not always want that kind of calcium.

So the point is to try to choose foods and herbs that best match your needs and you will have less side effects when taking the herbs.

Nopal has a lot of calcium. Cactus is well known for helping to lose weight, too. If someone is super skinny, they might choose denser forms of calcium like seeds, instead of the expansive cactus gel. Or simply dried nopal powder (really high in calcium). I heard nopal has oxalic acid, but I can testify to the effects of it healing my gums and teeth in a raw fresh smoothie form.

The point is to be selective and understand that to avoid side effects, there is no one-size-fits-all for food and herbs.

I have spent hours pouring over databases to find sources of calcium and I have not been able to escape constitutional logic.

Are not there any delicious vegetables with the same effect as these herbs?

CommonSenseRaw wrote:
Are not there any delicious vegetables with the same effect as these herbs?

Tai:
a vegetable is a fruit of a plant. It takes weeks or months to grow a vegetable.
Some roots or bark take years to grow.
It's funny you ask that question, because as a vegan, I have spent years trying to figure out vegan versions of animal medicines.

When I looked at joining the 30 bananas a day forum, I saw that they are against a lot of greens and plant alkaloids. I didn't fit into that forum.

I tell you, it's hard enough to find vegan versions of everything. To get any narrower, like trying to use exclusively raw herbs or exclusively fruits and vegetables, is too hard. I have met some amazing people that don't need any herbs, along the lines of what Sproutarian has shared. SOme people whose bodies are filled with energy and are connected spiritually. Great. But the majority of people have bigger needs.

Also, good luck with the delicious part. The most medicinal vegetables are not delicious. Ever tried bitter melon?

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have never used this herb and would like to know
> more about it.
> I use western herbs and Chinese herbs. I was never
> trained in Indian herbs, except a few culinary
> ones.
>
> There are many herbs that are high in calcium. In
> herbalism, we try to use the herb that matches the
> person's constitution the best. Gou qi zi root
> bark (Goji berrie vine) has high calcium but it's
> cooling. Huai niu xi root is high in calcium but
> it guides energy and blood flow to the lower body,
> especially knees and legs, feet, etc. So if you
> need rebuilding in upper body, you would not take
> huai niu xi just for the calcium. White oak bark
> is astringent, so one may not always want that
> kind of calcium.
>
> So the point is to try to choose foods and herbs
> that best match your needs and you will have less
> side effects when taking the herbs.
>
> Nopal has a lot of calcium. Cactus is well known
> for helping to lose weight, too. If someone is
> super skinny, they might choose denser forms of
> calcium like seeds, instead of the expansive
> cactus gel. Or simply dried nopal powder (really
> high in calcium). I heard nopal has oxalic acid,
> but I can testify to the effects of it healing my
> gums and teeth in a raw fresh smoothie form.
>
> The point is to be selective and understand that
> to avoid side effects, there is no
> one-size-fits-all for food and herbs.
>
> I have spent hours pouring over databases to find
> sources of calcium and I have not been able to
> escape constitutional logic.

Thanks for the great info, Tai! Sometimes it even pays to start an even less than half baked thread like this because you never know where it will go, and you've helped me out with your response a lot.

For one thing it seems I can use my arjuna bark topically to heal my lacerated hands after trying to shave the thorns off nopals ...

[onlinelibrary.wiley.com]

But then, as you've so nicely showed me, I can just throw chopped up nopals in the dehydrator, dry the heck out of them, and then powder them while leaving the fallen out and off thorns behind. I like it.

So what are the two or three must have herbs for general health?
I thought the supreme herbs were the grasses, wheatgrass or barley grass

SueZ wrote:
But then, as you've so nicely showed me, I can just throw chopped up nopals in the dehydrator, dry the heck out of them,

Tai:
I once found nopal jerky sold at Whole Foods. Both times I bought it, somehow the bagger lost them, so I never got to try them. I think there are interesting things to try with it besides powdering. I did see nopal powder sold at the health food store and the calcium was really high.

CommonSenseRaw wrote:
So what are the two or three must have herbs for general health?
I thought the supreme herbs were the grasses, wheatgrass or barley grass

Tai:
It depends on your needs and constitution, gender and age. I have hundreds of herbs in my pharmacy, because people's needs are so different. Also from my perspective, I would consider grass to be more of a food than a medicinal herb. Barley and wheat are considered foods, not herbs and so their shoots are more like foods. Still, even with simple foods, there is no one diet for everyone.

AHA, Arjuna bark. I have a full research article on that tucked away somewhere, very high in calcium and phytochemicals.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AHA, Arjuna bark. I have a full research article
> on that tucked away somewhere, very high in
> calcium and phytochemicals.

Yep, that's the one you were asking me about. I still can't find my posts on it - or much of anything else - on this site's searches for some unknown reason. If you find those studies please repost.

It will difficult to find a family enjoying a meal of Arjuna bark.
These are not foods.
May be useful in extreme case of dis-ease but not a daily food.
There are plenty other sources of calcium.

"These are not foods."

Please take your religious dogma back to wherever you found it.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It will difficult to find a family enjoying a meal
> of Arjuna bark.
> These are not foods.
> May be useful in extreme case of dis-ease but not
> a daily food.
> There are plenty other sources of calcium.

Glad to hear it. More of the interesting stuff left for the rest of us. Enjoy your iceberg lettuce life.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > AHA, Arjuna bark. I have a full research
> article
> > on that tucked away somewhere, very high in
> > calcium and phytochemicals.
>
> Yep, that's the one you were asking me about. I
> still can't find my posts on it - or much of
> anything else - on this site's searches for some
> unknown reason. If you find those studies please
> repost.


I shall spend some time and look for the study. I only asked you about the bark because l knew Tai would have been interested.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "These are not foods."
>
> Please take your religious dogma back to wherever
> you found it.

No dogma, simply the truth.
You can run this test
Put an apple and Arjuna bark on a table
A child will pick the apple as food.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "These are not foods."
> >
> > Please take your religious dogma back to
> wherever
> > you found it.
>
> No dogma, simply the truth.
> You can run this test
> Put an apple and Arjuna bark on a table
> A child will pick the apple as food.


Literally means absolutely nothing and in no way makes Arjuna not a food.

<<<These are not foods.>>>

One of my favorite expressions from one of my best students is "that's NOT Food" and this was in reference to the SAD. Indeed, what most people call "real food" is NOT Food by the true definition of Food.

So are some Herbs considered Food?

Well, according to Michael Tierra, there are 3 Main Functions of Herbs: 1) Eliminating; 2) Maintaining; 3) Building and I believe that the Ultimate Function is for Eliminating, whereas, the Building and Maintaining Functions of Herbs, according to Tierra, are for those who are not yet strong enough for Eliminating.

Another way of looking at Herbs is to say that there are Food Herbs and there are Medicinal Herbs. According to Dean Black, Ph.D., "A Medicinal Herb (one that controls) causes (1) improvement, followed by (2) a decline. These are the two phases of Drug response that I mentioned earlier: (1) the Drug's effect, and (2) the body's adaptation to it. If they notice a consistent two-phased effect from an Herb, they call it "Medicinal" and recommend that it be used short term only. Food Herbs are "Kingly", or "Superior". Medicinal Herbs are "Assistants" that occasionally supplement the Kingly Food Herbs. This is the Natural Healing point of view. In fact, from the Natural Healing perspective, Foods are the only Healing substances. Drugs do not - and cannot - Heal, because a body that depends on outside control cannot be considered Healthy."

Black also said that (1) Foods, including Food Herbs, and (2) Vitamin and Mineral Supplements were Nurturing or Natural. The former (1) was Whole or Natural, and the latter (2) was Isolated or Medical. Next he said that (3) Medicinal Herbs, and (4) Drugs were Controlling or Medical. The former (3) was Whole or Natural, and the latter (4) was Isolated or Medical.

Short term vision is to grow carrots but a 10 plus year Ginseng root is a food of the immortals and of the highest order. But who has the long term vision of planting something they will eat in 10, 20 or more years?

A legend of the Fo-ti root is that if one eats a 200+ year old root they would become immortal...

There was a quote I read somewhere but lost it that stated that a vegan diet is incomplete without liberal use of tonic herbs...

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > AHA, Arjuna bark. I have a full research
> > article
> > > on that tucked away somewhere, very high in
> > > calcium and phytochemicals.
> >
> > Yep, that's the one you were asking me about. I
> > still can't find my posts on it - or much of
> > anything else - on this site's searches for
> some
> > unknown reason. If you find those studies
> please
> > repost.
>
>
> I shall spend some time and look for the study. I
> only asked you about the bark because l knew Tai
> would have been interested.



That is a particularly peculiar thing to say as you PMed me asking me about my post on the bark, who's name you said you could not recall, long before Tai was even here as a member ...

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SueZ Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > AHA, Arjuna bark. I have a full research
> > > article
> > > > on that tucked away somewhere, very high in
> > > > calcium and phytochemicals.
> > >
> > > Yep, that's the one you were asking me about.
> I
> > > still can't find my posts on it - or much of
> > > anything else - on this site's searches for
> > some
> > > unknown reason. If you find those studies
> > please
> > > repost.
> >
> >
> > I shall spend some time and look for the study.
> I
> > only asked you about the bark because l knew
> Tai
> > would have been interested.
>
>
>
> That is a particularly peculiar thing to say as
> you PMed me asking me about my post on the bark,
> who's name you said you could not recall, long
> before Tai was even here as a member ...


I did ask you about it long before Tai was a member. I have known Tai before she joined this site, and we are lucky to have her here because she has very high level expert knowledge in some areas that probably all raw food leaders on the internet lack.


As for saying l could not recall the name of the bark, that is true. Nothing peculiar about anything l said if you know the situation.

Suez...there are no lies or cover-ups.

This forum has really been looking up recently, the material and discussions have improved.

NuNativs wrote:
a 10 plus year Ginseng root is a food of the immortals and of the highest order.

Fo-ti root...a 200+ year old root

a vegan diet is incomplete without liberal use of tonic herbs...

Tai:
I did not list ginseng as a top herb here because Chinese ginseng is contraindicated in some conditions, but it is worthwhile to keep in stock for the times it's needed. American ginseng is a wonderful herb, but it's also contraindicated for some conditions. The saddest part about ginseng is that it's been overharvested and when it is cultivated, they use harsh fungicides and pesticides. The organic ginseng is cost prohibitive for the average folk unless it is something they very specifically need. Dang shen is sometimes used as an inexpensive substitute for Chinese ginseng. I use Chinese herb companies that test for pesticide residue, etc. By the way, the most popular Fo-Ti root variety is processed with black beans (for the bean-o-phobes out there.)

I find most people need tonic herbs, both vegans and meat eaters. IT's just some vegans need certain extra vitamins, right?

TSM wrote:
"she has very high level expert knowledge in some areas that probably all raw food leaders on the internet lack."

Tai:
Hhhmmm. Most raw food teachers are not acupuncturists and herbalists, so in that sense, okay. I prefer to look at all of us as a team, and each contributes a piece of the puzzle. I am always a student, soaking up new information. I prefer to keep the term "high level" reserved for advanced spiritual understanding.

TSM:
I have known Tai before she joined this site.
Tai:
Yes, it's true. He referred me here. I saw some clips from this site come up with some googling once, but I didn't ever bother to see if it was still an active forum.