I highly recommend you read Storm's blog on 12/18/06
[www.rawveganforever.com]

It was quite amazing and addressed many things I have been feeling on raw (huge excess energy at times). I've hit times when my energy goes so high I feel nervous and on edge until I recognise it as a good feeling then everything changes. I loved reading that it wasn't just me.

Happy reading,
Sheryl

Raw Food Holiday Celebration Guide with full colour photos, shopping lists and menu plans:
www.RawFoodCelebrations.com

Oh my god that's awesome!!

That's exactly what happens to me - 100% raw is just way too powerful, I can't do it yet, I haven't yet developed the means to deal with that level of energy so I purposely eat some cooked food to keep the energy at a more comfortable level.

Thank you so much for posting that!

When I have excess energy I try to burn it off with some excercise or eat less. If I don't I can't sleep at night!


thehulaqueen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I highly recommend you read Storm's blog on
> 12/18/06
> [www.rawveganforever.com]
>
> It was quite amazing and addressed many things I
> have been feeling on raw (huge excess energy at
> times). I've hit times when my energy goes so high
> I feel nervous and on edge until I recognise it as
> a good feeling then everything changes. I loved
> reading that it wasn't just me.
>
> Happy reading,
> Sheryl

Use it or lose it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2006 12:40AM by sodoffsocks.

Thank you for this link. I also have some experience with uncomfortable energy that i perceive as "excess" cuz i don't know what to do with it! But I am tempering. It's nice to hear we are not alone.

Love,
Uma

Thanks for the link. A very interesting insight, which helps me understand some of the things I've been experiencing.

Learning to fly.

Sincerely,
Gosia.


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Yes, thanks Sheryl!

I'm so glad someone posted a link to this, because I read it last night and was riveted!

I had the privilege to spend a weekend with Storm and Jinjee at one of their retreats (three years ago, just before Adagio was born) - was quite a different person then, still very weak etc, but really connected with Storm in particular and have been wanting to get back with them. He is so incredibly real and honest, and commands enormous respect becaus of it.

love
Ela

There are so many ways to use excess energy to better our world, I do not get it when people are saying they do not know what to do.

Storm is telling the truth on some issues with the vegan diet.

Many turing to vegan make it a religious experience but the craving goes on inside.

After many years on cooked food it is very hard to completely turn it off without some craving. For Storm kids, it is different because they have been raised in that environment.

Personally my diet is mostly greens, sprouts and fruits but I can enjoy some cooked food and some meat or fish once in a while and share a good time with my mother when she bake some home made bread. That does not destroy my health and the energy I have it all the times.

What Storm wrote about the raw vegan diet is no testament against the raw vegan diet. What Storm is experiencing is what many who are on a spiritual path experience, an excess of energy, facing one's demons. This is called "The Dark Night of the Soul". There are many paths to a person's spiritual healing, and it looks like Storm's diet/lifestyle/spiritual practice led him to a place that others have been before. Other paths that can lead here are devotional practices (bhakti yoga), search for wisdom (jnana yoga), meditation practice(raja yoga), and discipline of action (karma yoga). There are probably many other paths that will lead here also.

And yes, many will not like this feeling, and try to squash it with denser foods, or foods that kill feeling in the body. Eating animal products or cooked foods will make a person less sensitive.

One the other hand, people who decide to go through the fire rather than run away end up with a lot more that those decide to run away. Storm could be on the brink of his god realization or spiritual healing. If I were facing this, I would not be inclined to run away.

I like you Bryan!

I like all but more importantly I am looking for the evidence

Djatchi, you won't find much aside from anecdotes here. If you want credible evidence, you'll have to use pubmed and your local med school library. The going is slow, as it takes time to separate the false from true studies. But, the evidence keeps trickling in. It will not be so much as 100% raw is best, but more like more raw is better than less raw, more f+v is better than less f+v, etc.

This is what Storm wrote:

Quote

I think that what is happening is that the raw vegan diet is working for some people too well. You reach a level of energy that is totally uncomfortable and in order for the organism to protect itself from this excess energy you start eating food that will negate the flow of energy. I think that that is what is happening with me in my current crisis. For years after I went totally raw I only needed four to five hours of sleep. I think that when we sleep our bodies process the toxins, and as we eat the cleaner foods less time is needed to process the toxins. What is happening now is that I'm finding that I'm hardly sleeping at all. I am experiencing what I call states of waking dreams.

Could it be that the body is missing some key vitamins such as b12. If it were me I will go and get tested instead of attributing that to excess energy that need to be lowered. The diet working too well does not translate into craving and not sleeping or the dark night of the soul as some have suggested.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2006 12:26PM by djatchi.

I would not attribute anything mystical or magical to a diet. It's just food.

It might be neurological symptoms due to chronic B12 insufficiency. It can be corrected easily enough with supplements.

He might also be low in zinc, taurine, and DHA. There are non-animal alternatives for all of these.

I wish instead of writing poetry like this he would provide some real data, his biomarkers, for example. He does look good for his age and that says a lot. But I'd like to see how the insides look, also!

You know, make a good thing better, etc.

Exactly arugula.
The problem is that for some diet becomes a religion they want to prove at all costs that veganism works where a small supplement would do wonder.
For some every discomfort used to be a sign of detox now the new thing is that the diet is doing to well.

This diet is very difficult at times, especially in the begginning. Not everyone can stick to it right from the start.

Similar to any aesthetic practice or discipline which requires not giving in to our senses like hunger and craving all the time, if followed dilligently over time it does make us stronger, not only in body but in mind and spirit also. And similar to such a practice the challenges continue for a long time and are there to help us grow (in a very broad sense).

Storm seems like a person who has evolved in ways many of us probably wouldn't understand. Sounds like he may need something more along the lines of a spiritual teacher rather than a nutritional coach.

Comments on Storm's post:

>One of the main inspirations for me was the work of Dr. Norman Walker who was also the longest lived raw vegan that I know of. Even though he had one cooked meal a day usually consisting of some form of rice dish; for me he is still a type of mentor,

Typical raw misinformation. Walker was non-vegan, non-raw. But they use him as an example anyway. The NH types misuse Shelton in a similar way.

>But now after over thirty years I find myself besieged on all sides by intolerable food and drug cravings.

Your body is telling you something, but I doubt you are listening.

>Of course I don't know for sure what is happening with me.

I don't either but it sure sounds like your "nutritional bill" is now due after years of under-nutrition.

>the energy levels one obtains from doing a well balanced raw vegan diet are astronomical. The only way that I was able to maintain a long term course was to transmute the energy. I think that if you don't find a way to transmute the energy then it turns on you.

I too had high energy levels on 100% raw -- but it's usually transient, or turns into sickness.

>And my question has always been how could someone do something that actually worked for them and then stop.

Because for most, long term, the success rate (on raw, especially 100% raw) is very low.

>I hear of people on almost a daily bases now saying that they feel so much better on the raw vegan diet and that they totally believe that it is the best way to eat, but they themselves are only doing 80 percent.

There's an important lesson here if you are open to receive it. 100% has a high failure rate. 100% raw vegan people claim success while they are emaciated, weak, sick-looking, and so on. Delusion is the word. On the other hand, 80% works well in the long run for at least some people.

>I am experiencing what I call states of waking dreams.

Hallucinations?

>But now as I enter into new levels of consciousness through the long term effects of the reversals of accumulated waste and toxins, I'm finding that my ability to manage my energy levels in relation to my energy levels are not in sync. I think that this will happen to every single person who attempts to do the raw vegan diet long term. Eventually you will be confronted by the wall.

The simplest explanation, given the data: sleep deprivation and under-nutrition. Concern: possible nerve damage due to B12 deficiency. Possible zinc deficiency.

Failing to see that we are not just this body is not seeing the complete picture. States of waking dreams is a well-known and common experience amongst highly evolved souls experiencing deep levels of spiritual energy.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

I agree with longtimeraw. Storm's blog is really alarming - falling asleep while driving. Good grief!

About spiritual experiences, what passes for knowledge of spirituality is a hodgepodge at best. IMHO a good rule of thumb is: the more spiritual, the more love, energy, success, and happiness. Life is smoother, not rougher. Yes, there can be periods of roughness as old habits, toxins, etc., are released, but the trend is towards more happiness, success, peace. And the experiences of higher states of consciousness are very different from Storm's.

Storm's description is entirely in terms of the body. Guess what, guys: You are not your body. I don't think he's going through a spiritual transformation, I think something's off physically.

If I were Storm, I'd get to a doctor and fast! - a good old regular sawbones MD - and have a bunch of tests taken.

I would really be interested in knowing his tests results just to see how eating living foods with no supplements really is effecting him. To say we believe his new issues are physical or spiritual or something else is all speculation. The truth is it is all just guess work. We need to put more importance on studying this diet. Storm said in "Breakthrough" he does know the what the long term effects of eating junkfood is.

Also, before any major progress, there is often a complete disintegration of the previously build set of ideas. At such point of disintegration, one can easily set back, moving forward requires some extra work. If one is not willing to let the old stuff (preconceived intelectual ideas) go, there will be no progress at all. I would be interested to see where Storm is in the future. Interesting journey! Raw food path is certainly similar in many ways to a spiritual path. Both are paths of gradual improvements. Neverending fun!

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

>We need to put more importance on studying this diet.

We need to make sure, at least, that we meet our RDAs and get enough kcals. There are plenty of online resources for that. And for people who want to spend money, there's nutribase.

And that's just for the vitamins and minerals we know about. What about the ones we don't know about yet?

rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Failing to see that we are not just this body is
> not seeing the complete picture. States of waking
> dreams is a well-known and common experience
> amongst highly evolved souls experiencing deep
> levels of spiritual energy.
>
> Gosia
I have never met a highly evolved soul but I think that a trip to the doctor and some earthly supplements will solve this problem.

Zinc deficiency is associated with spaciness and unclear thinking. Zinc is usually problematic in 100% raw vegan diets (barring supplementation, which Storm says he doesn't do).

Could it be that Storm is experiencing the mental spaciness of a zinc deficiency, and believing it to be a profound "spiritual experience"?

B12 deficiency can manifest as damage to the central nervous system (CNS) - I hope that is not the case here, as CNS damage is often permanent.

I agree that Storm should see a real doctor, an MD, for tests and possible diagnosis.

"I have never met a highly evolved soul"

I have!

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I have never met a highly evolved soul"
>
> I have!
>
> Gosia


How can you tell who's "highly evolved" and who's not?

Sorry- just had to comment..
I liked Storm`s blog. But this forum is becoming like a courtroom. Why not live and let live without necessarily having to take down everybody? That is very different from critically reviewing something and genuinely being curious.
Arguing and living from the ego `really damages the world.

rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Failing to see that we are not just this body is
> not seeing the complete picture. States of waking
> dreams is a well-known and common experience
> amongst highly evolved souls experiencing deep
> levels of spiritual energy.
>
> Gosia

In an earlier thread on this forum, the issue of b12 deficiency was dicussed and the statement was made that one could not thrive on raw food without supplementing on b12 after 20 years when the reserve was depleted.

Rawgosia wrote that the statement was false because Storm was a perfect case that disproves it. He had been 100 percent raw without supplementing for more than 20 years.

Now Storm is having some symptoms and the explanation from Rawgosia is that he is a "highly evolved soul experiencing deep levels of spiritual energy". I am just suprised at that statement especially coming from someone with a science background.

The discussion is important because we do not have a case of a successful long living vegan without supplementing on b12 and we were all looking at Storm experience and thinking maybe maybe.... and Storm himself wrote that the scientific observation on b12 was false because of his own case.

This is not a courtroom. We are all looking for the truth and the forum provides a good platform for an exchange of ideas

apple Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry- just had to comment..
> I liked Storm`s blog. But this forum is becoming
> like a courtroom. Why not live and let live
> without necessarily having to take down everybody?
> That is very different from critically reviewing
> something and genuinely being curious.
> Arguing and living from the ego `really damages
> the world.


Hi Apple. This is life & death stuff we're talking about here.

When it comes to people's color preferences for window drapes I'm not one to debate because there is no point. However this is an important issue. Some evidently find it irresponsible and perhaps even a bit dishonest to shrug off major physiological and nuerological issues as "deep mystical experiences" (having suffered insomnia and manic-depression in the past I can assure you such experiences are no joke and certainly nothing to get 'spiritually superior' about).

No one's arguing and everyone's got an ego to protect (the 'spiritual' folks more than anyone, in my experience), people are concerned for Storm and those he influences. If my girlfriend were about to walk off a cliff I'd say "Hey watch out!", I doubt she'd tell me "Stop being egoic!" and if she did, well I'd still save her from falling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2006 07:13AM by Narz.

>>What is happening now is that I'm finding that I'm hardly sleeping at all. I am experiencing what I call states of waking dreams. <<

sounds like to much of the raw cocoa, lol. or else, maybe just too much sugar. also the potential deficiencies mentioned should be checked.