The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vitality Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is
> > actually a diet that fits all humans. It is our
> > natural diet which is a vegan diet.
>
>
> I wish l could agree, but at this point of time we
> see many people trying vegan diets who end up
> failing, especially raw vegan N.H diets. If the
> rumours are correct, Durian Rider was supposed to
> have said over 99% of people on the 30BAD board
> fell off the wagon. Besides, the countless blogs
> are full of stories of people failing to thrive on
> the vegan diet. So sad.

Yes I know. And I think I know why they fail. First of all, a raw, low-fat, vegan diet must be VERY WELL PLANNED. In order to really function at such a diet we need to eat huge amounts of vegetables and the best fruits, that's why I think most people fail. And if we cannot do that, we need to include starchy vegetables such as potatoes, sweet potatoes, perhaps some grains and legumes.

And so many people who go on a vegan diet fail because they lack discipline, they miss their old food habits too much etc. They must give explanations why they fail! Why do they fail? They fail in getting enough calories, they worry too much about deficiencies, social pressure, etc.

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vitality wrote:
> "Only wholesome foods are healthy. If we extract a
> single substance from a food, then it is not a
> food anymore."
>
> The American Indians survived for tens of
> thousands of years on 70% plant foods which they
> highly processed to be able to eat them such as
> acorns. Your simplistic blanket statements are
> rubbish at best. Of course you're probably one of
> those who will discredit ginseng, reishi mushrooms
> etc.


What I meant was if we extract a substance out of something, like carbohydrate, vitamin, mineral etc then it is not a food. Acorn is not carbohydrate. It is a wide variety of nutrients. SUGAR is not healthy, OIL is not healthy. Does that mean carbohydrate is bad and fat is bad? No, it means that fat and sugar is great, but together and mixed up with other nutrients.

And yes, I surely discredit ginseng and mushrooms because I simply don't believe in magic. I believe that if we are to achieve and maintain health, we have to supply the body with all of its essential needs, no excesses or deficiencies. Only the body can lead us into health and maintain that status, and in order to do so it needs all of the essential minerals and vitamins and phytochemicals and what more. No magic mushroom, no raw cannabis juice, no this and that can do that for us. Only the body, so yes I do not believe in magic therefor I don't believe in mushrooms or herbs or other things that got magic attributed to it.

Think of it like this. Your body is a house, your home. Now the roof is broken and you need material to repair that broken roof. You need building materials, wood and nails. Not a mushroom, or a herb because you don't need a herb. You need only the material so that you can repair the broken roof. No herb or mushroom in the world can repair that roof, nor substitute essential material.

A herb does not act like a living organism in another organism, it can stimulate, provide an organism with materials, but it cannot really do... anything. Really, nothing.

Vitality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Think of it like this. Your body is a house, your
> home. Now the roof is broken and you need material
> to repair that broken roof. You need building
> materials, wood and nails. Not a mushroom, or a
> herb because you don't need a herb. You need only
> the material so that you can repair the broken
> roof. No herb or mushroom in the world can repair
> that roof, nor substitute essential material.
>
> A herb does not act like a living organism in
> another organism, it can stimulate, provide an
> organism with materials, but it cannot really
> do... anything. Really, nothing.


That post was chock-full of ignorance but that's not my business or problem. Carry on...

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vitality Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Think of it like this. Your body is a house,
> your
> > home. Now the roof is broken and you need
> material
> > to repair that broken roof. You need building
> > materials, wood and nails. Not a mushroom, or a
> > herb because you don't need a herb. You need
> only
> > the material so that you can repair the broken
> > roof. No herb or mushroom in the world can
> repair
> > that roof, nor substitute essential material.
> >
> > A herb does not act like a living organism in
> > another organism, it can stimulate, provide an
> > organism with materials, but it cannot really
> > do... anything. Really, nothing.
>
>
> That post was chock-full of ignorance but that's
> not my business or problem. Carry on...

Why so?

Vitality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vitality Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Think of it like this. Your body is a house,
> > your
> > > home. Now the roof is broken and you need
> > material
> > > to repair that broken roof. You need building
> > > materials, wood and nails. Not a mushroom, or
> a
> > > herb because you don't need a herb. You need
> > only
> > > the material so that you can repair the
> broken
> > > roof. No herb or mushroom in the world can
> > repair
> > > that roof, nor substitute essential material.
>
> > >
> > > A herb does not act like a living organism in
> > > another organism, it can stimulate, provide
> an
> > > organism with materials, but it cannot really
> > > do... anything. Really, nothing.
> >
> >
> > That post was chock-full of ignorance but
> that's
> > not my business or problem. Carry on...
>
> Why so?


I've already explained this (and many other things) so many times and I don't want to sound like a broken record. If we were having a conversation in person it would be much easier. To keep it simple - various foods like medicinal mushrooms, raw cannabis leaf juice, algae's, etc. in fact do provide "building materials" that help repair our "house". Also, just because something is not essential does not mean it cannot be very beneficial.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, coconut oil contains a
> small quantity of palmitic acid, so what? That
> fact alone doesn't make coconut oil unhealthy or
> inflammatory, it's merely one component.

So what? Palmitic acid kills the beta cells in the pancreas. Thus, a damaged pancreas cannot produce insulin and people become diabetic. The more palmitic acod you eat, the more beta cells die. Palmitic acid and other SFAs present in coconut oil estimulate inflamatory responses. You can read it here: [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

upi can read the damaging effects of cocnut oil on animals here: [www.cadiresearch.org]

rabbit arteries after a raw coconut oil diet of 0%, 15%, 26% respectively

Now you're resorting to the same bogus things you've posted in the past which again has zero relevance to the actual topic. You're in complete denial and you clearly cannot logically follow the conversation. Just because coconut oil has a little palmitic acid, and palmitic acid (from cooked/refined/animal sources, not raw extra-virgin coconut oil) has been shown to have harmful effects, does NOT mean in any way that overall coconut oil is unhealthy. Once again, the predominant fats in coconut oil are medium-chain fatty acids and macadamia which has MORE palmitic acid than coconut oil has beneficial effects on the cardiovascular system. Plus I also posted a study which showed that MCT's (fats found in coconut oil) are beneficial for those with type-2 diabetes and improves cardiac function.

To recap:

1.) No one here has any evidence against raw, extra-virgin coconut oil or against well-planned high-fat diets (raw plant based fats and a healthy omega-3 to omega-6 ratio).

2.) Coconut oil is primarily lauric acid (predominant fat in breast milk) and consists of primarily MCT's which exert significantly different effects than animal saturated fats, many of which are beneficial.

3.) Palmitic acid is found in coconut oil but that fact alone doesn't make coconut oil unhealthy, as I have shown multiple times.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2015 08:57PM by jtprindl.

Vitality wrote:
"And yes, I surely discredit ginseng and mushrooms because I simply don't believe in magic."

Well that's exactly what you're doing in my opinion, the whole Natural Hygiene (eat only whole vegan foods) thing has been done and the results are miserable. You're probably new to the game and/or young and idealistic but maybe you'll be the one to break through...

[naturalhygienesociety.org]

I am seeing lots of raw food 101 discussion here. When we can have a more comprehensive discussion (raw food 404) l will join in and may even post some studies, but it doesn't appear people are reading the studies jtprindl and myself have posted so far, so no point in posting anything more at the moment. Regardless of the Vogel study l posted and various things, all these things seem to be either ignored or in one ear and out the other.

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vitality wrote:
> "And yes, I surely discredit ginseng and mushrooms
> because I simply don't believe in magic."
>
> Well that's exactly what you're doing in my
> opinion, the whole Natural Hygiene (eat only whole
> vegan foods) thing has been done and the results
> are miserable. You're probably new to the game
> and/or young and idealistic but maybe you'll be
> the one to break through...
>
> [naturalhygienesociety.org]


The results aren't miserable the results are good and millions of people have recovered health through NH. And a hygienic diet can be different, it is not only raw foods. I believe, that raw food high-sugar high-fat is a bad diet and I'd rather include a little cooked low-fat food. Fatty food eaten alone is not a problem for me, I just think that eating sugar food is better and tastier.

You haven't perhaps heard of mcdougall, fuhrman, esselstyn, goldhamer? All of them recommend similar diets and have helped so many people.

I don't think living is a big deal, it is not rocket science really, we are equipped with instincts to survive and reproduce. That is our whole purpose. And we are programmed to select the best-looking (healthiest) partner so this must mean that nature favors HEALTH and PERFECT such. And since nature favors health so much, she has laid out everything we need, and equipped us with instincts to search for those things. We are born perfect and we shall maintain perfection with the guidance of nature, nature EARNS on this, as much as we do, as individuals. We are not meant to be sick and weak, that is really not what nature wants.

And we have no "hunger" for mysterious herbs or weird looking mushrooms.

What N.H. philosophy fails to realize is that just because we didn't eat X food throughout human history - that doesn't mean newly introduced foods are not healthy. Something can be very healthy even though humans have very little history of consuming it.

I have little wish to join this conversation, but I will make one quick point.

Panchito, rabbits are not designed to eat lots of fat and do not have the enzymes and proper requirements for dealing with it. Humans do. There is a ton of research out there debunking that study as being wholly inapplicable to humans if you are interested in following up on the matter and discovering the truth.

These studies done on rabbits to discredit saturated fat and cholesterol were done intentionally and knowingly to make people sicker and make a huge profit for the drug and diet companies. The information is all there if you care to look.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2015 12:14AM by Living Food.

Living, agreed, rabbits are not people.

But Panchito's posting is still of interest. It must be said that eventually the same things that happen to rabbits on high fat diets happen to people, too. The only real difference is how long it takes.

It takes a lot longer to see these effects in people but they do eventually happen if the people don't die of something else first.

Although rabbits are herbivores, they can eat meat, too, and gain nourishment from it, but they don't do very well with it.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What N.H. philosophy fails to realize is that just
> because we didn't eat X food throughout human
> history - that doesn't mean newly introduced foods
> are not healthy. Something can be very healthy
> even though humans have very little history of
> consuming it.


NH is not about what we have eaten in history, its about what our bodies are designed to. And the body cannot make use of THC = THC is not beneficial.
The body cannot make use of nicotine = nicotine is not useful.
Vitamin C is needed by body = essential element.
Carbohydrate = Body make use of as main fuel.

We don't need that concentrated amount of lauric acid that is in coconut oil. It's a foolish belief and I believe that you believe it to be beneifcial because it suits you, you probably like oily foods. And now you can excuse your use of coconut oil because you "believe" its healthy. Well it is not, and I don't need any study to prove this, it's simply irrational to believe something else. Reason over all.

Our whole food contain all the fat we need, we don't need to extract it from nuts, coconuts or hazelnuts, in order to meet our requirements. Just imagine how complicated life would be if nature designed it to be that way. We would have to do everything by ourselves. Rickets... ohhh, I must find a secret, magic herb in the woods, extract a certain nutrient from it and only then can I heal!! Luckily, life isn't that chaotic.

"NH is not about what we have eaten in history, its about what our bodies are designed to. And the body cannot make use of THC = THC is not beneficial."

THC, along with many other cannabinoids are easily made useful within the body and have powerful healing effects, including cancer and autoimmune diseases. Cannabinoids promote homeostasis, the ability to maintain physiological equiblibrium, at every phase of biological life. Also, like I said, just because something is not essential does NOT mean it cannot be very beneficial. Resveratrol isn't an essential nutrient but it has plenty of outstanding health benefits. Same with curcumin, phycocyanin, etc.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "NH is not about what we have eaten in history,
> its about what our bodies are designed to. And the
> body cannot make use of THC = THC is not
> beneficial."
>
> THC, along with many other cannabinoids are easily
> made useful within the body and have powerful
> healing effects, including cancer and autoimmune
> diseases. Cannabinoids promote homeostasis, the
> ability to maintain physiological equiblibrium, at
> every phase of biological life. Also, like I said,
> just because something is not essential does NOT
> mean it cannot be very beneficial. Resveratrol
> isn't an essential nutrient but it has plenty of
> outstanding health benefits. Same with curcumin,
> phycocyanin, etc.


God damn it, you sound so convincing that I almost start believing that cannabis is god's gift, I feel tempted to go out and buy some. Hehe.

But how do you explain the looks smokers get? Paleness, tiredness, etc. Like I said, a foreign substance can be beneficial, but not in normal stages of life (in my opinion) and they are practical poisons for certain situations at best. The healthy person doesn't need cannabis for anything, and the use of it will not take him/her to a higher level of health, do you agree?

"But how do you explain the looks smokers get?"

I'm not referring to smoking it.

"The healthy person doesn't need cannabis for anything, and the use of it will not take him/her to a higher level of health, do you agree?"

No, I think when you're healthy and start engaging in more really healthy habits, such as juicing raw cannabis leaves, you get healthier.

Resveratrol is useless
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Resveratrol is useless
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


Not really but I have no problem if you believe so. I could post plenty of studies exhibiting the benefits of resveratrol. I've learned not to waste any more time debating with you. Your level of nutritional knowledge is too low to be able to grasp and understand many things.

jtprindl, your insult to arugula is uncalled for. She actually knows a lot more about nutrition than you do, it's just the stuff you know she (and many others here) doesn't think is valid.

It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to resort to insulting one another.

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl, your insult to arugula is uncalled for.
> She actually knows a lot more about nutrition than
> you do, it's just the stuff you know she (and many
> others here) doesn't think is valid.
>
> It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to resort to
> insulting one another.


Prana you are once again showing your biased and inconsistent moderating abilities and I already know this post is the result of you sharing similar low-fat dogmatic opinions with arugula. I didn't insult her in any way and it definitely wasn't any worse than some of the things she's said to me. She (and "many others here" ) likes to ignore established evidence that doesn't agree with her brainwashed beliefs. That's fine - you guys can live in the past and I, and many others, will continue to embrace new discoveries. Oh and as far as arugula knowing more about nutrition than me, yeah that never happened - not even close. Telling people to simply eat raw plants doesn't make you knowledgeable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2015 04:56AM by jtprindl.

(Fresh made me want to keep away, but Panchito's study drew me back.)

After finding out about how expensive everything is in Australia, and how produce is different there and seed viability is poorer there (compared to America), I have learned not to judge Sproutarian, but to admire his perseverance in trying to thrive on a 100% raw diet. Sproutarian can drink straight weed juice, like dandelion juice. When I try that beyond a small amount, undiluted, I will feel nauseated without something sweet. When I suggest mixing something sweet and bitter, he finds that strange. Plus his body is used to so many enzymes from sprout juice. So I actually respect him for his uniqueness, and I take the position that I have a lot to learn from him. I recognize that his body is functioning differently and this is probably why he is attracted to the studies that support higher fat, as well as serving a niche group.

With that said, Panchito's post was so helpful for me and the kind of people I help. Also, ever since I got into raw, I have seen people eat high amounts of coconut products (including me), because we can get 9 count boxes of thai coconuts and organic mexican mature coconuts relatively inexpensively. Sometimes I make a lot of mature coconut and immature thai coconut milk and I kind of use too much at once and then I won't crave it for one and a half weeks. Finally, this link of Panchito's explains why. I like the recommendations it give. I am going to share them.

Lou corona teaches to drink gorilla milk which is part green juice and part coconut almond milk, so now I know I am not going to exceed one third cup coconut milk a day (or 2/3rds if I am super active). By the way, there are some young thai coconuts in which the meat is thick and fatty and some meat is watery and mostly carbohydrate, so the fat levels really vary in the young thai ones. Also Lou had the Thai coconuts tested and found the water and meat was unaffected by the chemicals they use on the outside to retard mold. For me personally, sometimes I get a little dry skin when I completely stop using both thai and mexican coconuts for several weeks. If I eat a thai coconut, my skin will feel better the next day, if I have abstained for weeks.

[www.cadiresearch.org]

I am unable to cut and paste due to error messages from the forum. Please read after the rabbit study. Afterwards, it talks about human studies and cholesterol, starting from the word, Kerala. Very helpful for me.

arugula said:
"Living, agreed, rabbits are not people. "

Yet rabbits get sunshine on their naked ass and gentalia daily as should all people...
(Anyone who is anti-Sun/Light in my book, is not healthy whatsoever...)

If you study the long lived Sahddus and Rishis of India, or the Taoists, you will find that they they were not simplistic raw foodists to achieve their longevity, but alchemists of the highest order. Comparing OURseleves to rabbits or any animal really, is folly. I mean we've been into space for "gods" sake...(Apples and Oranges)

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (Fresh made me want to keep away, but Panchito's
> study drew me back.)
>
>

Tai,

your reaction to questions and challenges made you want to keep away, not anything malicious or insulting on my part. if information is of such a character as to make your mind draw conclusions like "more people are going to get their organs harvested", that is your issue, not mine, so criticizing me is inappropriate.

Native Americans used herbs. And shiitake mushrooms are not considered magic...that's a different kind

So many posts on here ..not sure where to reply but u have a picture I can find where I'm'm at Haha. ...anyway...EXTRA.
v
irgin coconut oli......3 table spoons a day (out of the jar) safe to eat much of it every day for awhile?

1. aren't the studies referenced here showing positive effects using heated oils? why would those studies be relevant if one is claiming raw coconut oil is better?

2. this article indicates that heated coconut oil contains higher antioxidants
and that coconut oil is heat stable. so what would be the justification in saying that heated oil bad/raw oil good.

[www.tropicaltraditions.com]