he looks more like his age here.
[www.youtube.com]

Face is suspiciously smooth compared to neck. Eyes look a little cloudy. I can see that he has some loss of bony mass at the eye sockets and chin/jaw.

Even so, I have to say his vitality impresses me. He does not have that characteristic stiffness that sets compared to most people his age.

I am trying to find specifics about his diet. He is not all raw, maybe 80-90% (like me). He tends to high greens instead of high fruit. He does high fat and ferments coconut. I can't find much else.

I do not believe the supplemental enzymes are doing much. Our stomach's HCL will break those enzymes (which are protein) down into individual amino acids.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 08:51PM by arugula.

(I was about to put this in the Arugula thread, but I see this Lou thread available. By the way, Lou had been 90% raw in the past when he traveled, but he is currently 100% raw and has been for some time. Yes, he is not perfect, but doing better than most his age! I love his humility and willingness to learn.)

Arugula wrote
I'd also be cautious about thinking that undamaged fats are purely safe. Where you have fat, you have lipid peroxidation, and those lipid peroxidation products are leading to high measures of AGEs (in this case, CML) which are present even in the raw avocado and uncooked nuts/seeds.

Tai:
Going back to Lou Corona's diet...he eats and advocates sprouting and fermenting nuts and seeds into yogurt. He will consume 1-2 cups a day of nut/seed/coconut yogurt. He also consumes about 20 digestive enzymes daily, about 5 with every meal.
Although I feel sprouted sesame yogurt is one of the best things I have eaten, I got a bit tired of eating soured food daily and TSM brought up the point of aldehydes, so TSM recommends eating nut/seed yogurt every OTHER day to avoid the aldehydes. But TSM pointed out that Vitamin K2 is produced in sunflower seed yogurt.
Lou Corona's point is that you spare your body's digestive enzymes by consuming more food in a predigested state. Sparing your enzymes leads to longevity, as there is a finite capacity for enzymes. Turning protein into amino acids and fat into fatty acids and consuming food in that form gives your body a break from using so many enzymes for digestion.

So my question to Arugula is fermented seed yogurt better or worse for a raw vegan? yes, as TSM said, there are the aldehydes from AGEs from yogurt, but then you spare your body's digestive enzymes. One has to weigh the pros and cons.

Lou said he was able to get really skinny raw vegans who were unable to digest nuts before be able to gain proper weight with nut/seed yogurt, because the probiotics predigested the food.

Also, Arugula, isn't it worth it to make sunflower yogurt for the K2?

What do you think about Kangen water? That is what Lou drinks, but I don't like it because it comes from tap water that has been purified with something like reverse osmosis or something similar. They can't make Kangen water with distilled water. I don't like tap water, even if it's been purified or distilled. SO I buy spring water and distill it into glass. Even when tap water has been distilled, which is purer than reverse osmosis, I still taste the tap water. it's gross to me. Lou calls this Kangen...antioxidant water. I have met people that had health problems go away by drinking the Kangen water. I just wonder what the long term effects might be.

Lastly, with Lou loving to ferment all his seeds, what happens to the precious omega 3s, when flax seed and chia seed get fermented? (I have never seen Lou do this, but this is his theory.)

Also, since flax is an egg substitute, what happens to the flax when it gets ground up and placed in a dehydrator on low for 12-24 hours? How about the AGEs? Flax is used in so many raw vegan dried creations.

Lastly, does fermenting coconut meat reduce it's saturated fat or make it in anyway less harmful or does it do the reverse and make it more harmful? Because this is what Lou and my friend have done for years, as though it is so superior to eating it raw and unfermented.

P.S. I am cultivating Portulaca, which is a gorgeous year-round tender edible plant, whereas common purslane is seasonal. But it is slow growing, so I can't eat too much. Purslane and portulaca have omega 3s

My thinking on AGES....

the body can deal with AGES, but when they are in excess of what the body can handle the problems will arise.


What are the best ways to deal with AGES? Using high antioxidant foods, building upgood stores of EPA/DHA and trying not to let levels get too high.


Here is a recent study done on broccoli sprouts in controlling AGES. This is not proof of anything, but it tells us the same old story that antioxidants protect the DNA against assaults, so it could well be that broccoli sprouts do protect against AGES given that AGES have a base in oxidative damage and inflammation.


Sulforaphane inhibits advanced glycation end product-induced pericyte damage by reducing expression of receptor for advanced glycation end products



Maeda S, Matsui T et al
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] (extract)


As l have been saying, if we eat nuts and seeds we should be consuming lots of sprouted greens, in particular sprouted broccoli, sprouted radish and sunflower greens.


Anyway...so what if Lou isn't doing things ideally, and so what if his eyes are slightly cloudy. He is happy and doing what he likes to do. If l get lots of AGES through too many nuts and seeds l am not going to worry...at least l don't fry or BBQ my food etc. I try to get plenty of antioxidants to help compensate and sprout chia/flax and l am happy with that. If l age, so be it.

Tai,

I don't believe our body's ability to produce enzymes declines significantly due to our food choices. It's just another thing that declines in general as we get older. There is no evidence that people who are long term tube feeders have more digestive enzymes for example.

I think fermented foods are great. I'd do 1/2 cup a day or so. I can't say what is optimal.

I drink tap water. I am not suspicious, but it is true that our planet is getting filthier by the minute.

I don't think fermenting damages the fats but dehydrators do. Not as much as cooking with heat, though.

Panchito wrote:
Maybe there is another explanation. He seems to have lots of subcutaneous fat from his high fat diet. The subcutaneous fat acts as a filler that smoothes the wrinkles out. He also seems to have some belly fat and always wear a tubular Pavarotty style shirt (a curtain). If he were to wear a belt, maybe he would look fatter.

Tai:
No he is not fat anywhere. I told SueZ this: he put my hand on his abdomen to show me his core strength. It was all muscle. His clothes are simple...he tries to save money. I have seen him wear the same clothes again and again. He was not rich in those videos. His point to me was that beside the rebounding, stretching (plus barwork) and breathwork, his muscular physique came from his diet. His diet and lifestyle gives him core strength.

No he doesn't dye his hair. He has a some white hairs in the back (maybe 20? last time I saw), but the rest is black. No, he hasn't had work done on his face. It is au naturel. Yes, his skin is glistening and dewey, beaming. Mine gets like that when I consume fresh coconut daily and high raw like him. Yes, his eyes have some cloudiness. He said his eyes suffered a chemical spill when he was younger.

His secret is not just his diet. He says there are 4 principles and food is just 25% of the answer. But he really optimizes his diet.

[www.youtube.com]

lou is not cut. he is not very lean.

this is not an insult, but it is the result of his diet.

there are many raw fooders with muscled lean physique.

Lou is not flabby, he has got muscle there. People's bodies develop differently.

There is a raw food vegan part sproutarian weightlifter called Mark Handy. His body is not sculptured like many, but that is the body he has got. He has got muscle on his arms and chest, just not cut. He is certainly not fat, just a different body type. Hey, we don't all look the same. Different genes.

Interview with Low Calorie Raw Vegan Bodybuilder Mark Handy (Part 1 of 2) #175
[www.youtube.com]


He eats lots of sprouted greens and chia seeds.

Fresh wrote:
lou is not cut. he is not very lean.

Tai:
He may not be VERY cut, but he is muscular. How lean do you want him? I would say that he is bordering on being underweight. His legs seem skinny to me.

How lean should people be? When I was super low fat, my bones stuck out too much (weighing 115 at my lowest). I don't think that is healthy if you take a bad fall. As long as I can comfortably sit in the lotus position for an hour, I don't mind if I carry a few extra pounds. I think padding is a bonus. I am 5'9" and about 135 lbs. BMI 19.9, which your poll asked. If I cut out the raw nuts and seeds from my salad dressings, pates and nutmilks and cut out the avocados, I could easily drop to 125 very quickly and I would go lower, if I ate no fat, but why would I want that? Arugula has inspired me to go lower fat, so let's see what happens.

I think Lou should not get any leaner. Athletes look older than their age. If Lou worked out more, he would get more cut, but he would probably look older, too. You can't have everything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 12:16AM by Tai.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was super low
> fat, my bones stuck out too much (weighing 115 at
> my lowest).


I was super low fat for a while and lived on LOTS sprouted legumes and sprouted grains and no seeds/nuts for a while (had four large meals of them per day). Got too thin and ribs appeared. Not good. Now my weight is good, not too fat nor too thin. Some padding is better than skin and bones. Can develop good muscle when I exercise consistantly, but hard to always make time to do the weight lifting I would like to do.

HHI said to me, MUST do nut or seeds pastes in order to develop the muscle and not get too thin. They said legumes and grains weren't enough.

I am not sure if raw legumes as in beans, peas and lentils are good for human consumption even when sprouted.
There are reason to get thin in eating them, the body has to do so much work to digest them.
If I had to eat them, I would prefer them cooked but I would need a colonic after
My work around is to grow then into greens.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 03:02AM by RawPracticalist.

I do not feel that I need a colonic after legumes. They are so great!

I use modest quantities.

10-15% usually.

They are still plants, they are cheap, and they offer up a lot of nutrition. But yes, they need to be cooked.

I totally respect that many people herr wish to avoid them. But I see no reason to avoid them for myself.

They provide a compromise between too much fruit and too much fat.

IMO the things that make people stink and putrify are dairy, eggs, and meat. Cooked legumes are associated with increased lifespan while dairy, eggs, and meat are associated with decreases. They can't be all that bad.

But I understand that some people do not feel the magic unless they are 100%.

>But I understand that some people do not feel the magic unless they are 100%.

what is the longest period of time you have been 100%



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 03:18AM by fresh.

Just a couple of weeks. There is no "on/off" switch for me, only percentages.

If I believed that such a thing--maximum benefits only available at 100% in an overtly way-- were possible I would do it.

Testimonials can be inspiring but the credibility lies with studies which do not currently exist.

>Cooked legumes are associated with increased lifespan
Really? Any studies to support this claim!

>They are still plants, they are cheap, and they offer up a lot of nutrition. But yes, they need to be cooked.

I am going to feel guilty cooking them. My other little growing plants will look at me and say "what are you doing"

I may start with lentils. But lentil greens are so good.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a couple of weeks. There is no "on/off"
> switch for me, only percentages.
>
> If I believed that such a thing--maximum benefits
> only available at 100% in an overtly way-- were
> possible I would do it.
>

well there's no doubt of the difference in how you feel, from my experience, and others, as you noted.

depends on what you mean by benefits.
if you mean nutritionally it's hard to say like you've said.

if you mean the sensation of a quantum leap in alertness, energy, joy, everything running smoothly, better strength/endurance, less sleep needed, skin, no false appetite,etc, etc then there's no doubt. (check out some of chris califano's musings)

and i've tested it with all kinds of things, potatoes, beans, even steamed veg all take you down a notch.

either 2 weeks wasn't long enough or foods eaten were not ideal, i would think.

also it's much easier to tell the difference when you're testing the diet with sport/exercise.

one can certainly be all raw but some questionable raw items take you down a level

of course some mostly raw diets are much better than some all raw for sure.

i suppose one can feel amazing but still be deficient, but as long as you're attending to what needs to be, should be no different from mostly raw, unless you're just eating apples or something.

> Testimonials can be inspiring but the credibility
> lies with studies which do not currently exist.

tell me a nutrient that you are getting with beans or whatever else cooked and not available from raw food.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 03:56AM by fresh.

i am not trying to be elitist or pushing 100%. just sharing his words.


chris califano



[rogerhaeske.com]

I have eaten about six cooked food mini meals in the last ten years since goint 100% raw just to test it. Each time my physical performance suffered. I got weaker, I did not sleep well, my skin did not feel or look as good, and I felt heavy with some discomfort in my stomach (gas. bloating, cramps). I would eat some cooked food like pasta, whole grains or steamed veggies. The rice or whole grains were the worst. The steamed veggies were not as bad but still took away energy to perfom tasks- especially lift weight or do cardio. And both certainly hurt my flexibility. I tried to eat cooked more than a half dozen times in the past ten years of my experiment and so far it has always been negative.

Dear Roger,
I could not agree with you more that life is about liviing the best way possible in the best health possible. Eating 100% OPTIMAL raw is the most significant thing a person can do. Was it not Victoria in her book “12 Steps To Raw” who said that there is a much larger improvement between 99% raw and 100% raw than between 80% and 99%? After being 100% raw for nearly ten years I can attest to that! It is like pregnancy. You can’t be 99.95 pregnant. Only 100% “completes the cycle” and gets the proper reaction: LIFE! I also am grateful for your SVS’s (Savory Veggie Stews!) I used to all them dinner smoothies and your information helpled me put the finishing touches on my own ten-year100% raw food diet. Again, I cannot agree more with your staunch commitiment to 100% not high raw or partially raw. This diet must be foillowed to the max to alow a person to experience genuine wellness FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR LIFE. Those who put off going 100% raw are just wasting valuable time enjoying life and freedom from short term and long term dis-ease. It is amazing! If anyone wants to see what another ten year raw foodist looks like, please visit my website at [www.thefirstsupper.com] and get with the 100% raw food program as Roger says!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 04:22AM by fresh.

>Was it not Victoria in her book “12 Steps To Raw” who said that there is a much larger improvement between 99% raw and 100% raw than between 80% and 99%

If you are referring to Victoria Botenko, she went back to eating some cooked foods. She is overweight.

These are types of statements that make new comers not even try raw food.
They reason, I can never be 100 percent so why even try.

It is great if you can be 100 percent raw but for most great achievements can be accomplished at 80+ raw. One great such example is the sproutman steve meyerowitz.

My personal experience is that a big portion of our diet has to be raw living food with periodic cleanse and exercise, it does not have to be necessarily 100 percent raw.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 05:48AM by RawPracticalist.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Was it not Victoria in her book “12 Steps To
> Raw” who said that there is a much larger
> improvement between 99% raw and 100% raw than
> between 80% and 99%
>
> If you are referring to Victoria Botenko, she went
> back to eating some cooked foods. She is
> overweight.

yes that was from a few years ago.

>
> These are types of statements that make new comers
> not even try raw food.
> They reason, I can never be 100 percent so why
> even try.

that's one way to look at it.
sheeple are impacted by things like that.

>
> It is great if you can be 100 percent raw but for
> most great achievements can be accomplished at 80+
> raw. One great such example is the sproutman steve
> meyerowitz.
>
> My personal experience is that a big portion of
> our diet has to be raw living food with periodic
> cleanse and exercise, it does not have to be
> necessarily 100 percent raw.

of course it doesn't have to be.
this is merely in response to the "there's no difference" idea - that is the context.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not sure if raw legumes as in beans, peas and
> lentils are good for human consumption even when
> sprouted.
> There are reason to get thin in eating them, the
> body has to do so much work to digest them.
> If I had to eat them, I would prefer them cooked
> but I would need a colonic after
> My work around is to grow then into greens.

Eating four large legume/grain meals per day was not a good idea. Too much food and too much bloating/wind for a body not healed enough to deal with it. I was killing myself. It was beyond silly, and having a large blended legume/grain meal at 11pm (trying to fit in the calories) and urinating 2 - 3 times during the night was the last straw. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I've tried lots of things and have been to hell and back on my raw journey, that is why l am in a good position to help people...i've been through it all. Now things are smooth.

fresh
I understand, it is the context. We are all on this forum because we are committed to raw food.

But I would like to comment on one statement that gets repeated over and over and does not make sense at close scrutiny.

>that there is a much larger improvement between 99% raw and 100% raw than between 80% and 99%

That may not be correct.

Let's take an airplane trying to fly, it is the take off that is critical not the additional mile that gets added once 10000 feet in the air. The pull of gravity is not that high at the altitude. The same when we drive a car at 99 miles per hour, one additional mile to the speed does not bring a remarkable change, the car is already flying.

So too for the person getting into raw foods, it is the initial 70 percent raw and living food that bring huge changes to his life. At 90+ percent raw your body is cleanse, nourished, and vibrant. At that level you are so healthy and your body is resistant to disease, your digestive system full of living bacteria that eating some steamed broccoli should not be an issue. If you are driving at 99 miles per hour, you could lower your speed to 98 and you are still going fast enough.

This is not to say that 100 percent should be discouraged. For those who can it is good but they should not tell us that we too are not get the benefits of being on raw and living foods at 90+ percent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 06:45AM by RawPracticalist.

fair enough.


>This is not to say that 100 percent should be discouraged. For those who can it is good but they should not tell us that we too are not get the benefits of being on raw and living foods at 90+ percent.

sure,
there's health benefits which are big from mostly raw, and there's that different sensation from 100% that you get where it's just, zing!

kind of different things. benefits to both ways . there's a mental freedom in not constantly trying to be 100% raw too.

Legumes: the most important dietary predictor of survival in older people of different ethnicities.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

It's not that they have nutrients that other foods lack. It's that are an alternative to fruit and fat. And truthfully I do not think they are magic, probably the best thing about them is that they are "not meat."

>either 2 weeks wasn't long enough or foods eaten were not ideal, i would think.

Here we go again, the old "You aren't doing it right." thing.

The evangelical aspects of not cooking escape me totally. It's just not cooking. I do not believe in a zing available only with no heat. And I don't believe for a moment that Viktoria Boutenko was ever seriously high raw for more than an instant at a time. You could stick a canulua in her and a chromatograph would tell you exactly what she has been eating: doughnuts and stuff like that.

They can say whatever they like, they make a living off selling hope. I don't believe in their nonsense and never have. I don't want to be associated with them. When people hear the words "raw foodist" they think of nonsense like what she says or what Lou says or what Cousens or Clement say. They just make stuff up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 10:39AM by arugula.

"I do not believe in a zing available only with no heat."


One has to experience it to know it. It is not a belief thing.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Legumes: the most important dietary predictor of
> survival in older people of different
> ethnicities.
> [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


Sprouted legumes and grains in their raw state can really boost the diet when the circumstances are right. I get a real buzz after l have eaten them. Regardless, the body needs to be fine tuned to be able to handle them. Eating them after kelp, wakami or fenugreek sprouts is highly recommended to chelate those nasty old lectins. Lentils are king.




> And I don't
> believe for a moment that Viktoria Boutenko was
> ever seriously high raw for more than an instant
> at a time.


Raw for 5 minutes then back to SAD? She was thin here, but most of her pictures show a very large lady.
[www.youtube.com]

Here she is talking on raw foods at the Ann Wigmore conference in the last year or two [l think]:
[www.30bananasaday.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 11:05AM by The Sproutarian Man.

oops, cannula

Tai, Luigi did a study showing lowest health-care costs when the BMI is 18.

But for a relatively heathy person who is eating a super diet, I would not worry about being 2 units above that. 20 is better than 16.

Tai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No he doesn't dye his hair. He has a some white
> hairs in the back (maybe 20? last time I saw), but
> the rest is black.

Tai, not that it is impossible, but I have never seen a pattern of greying hair that started at the back of the head with 20 or so hairs. That there are absolutely no grey hairs anywhere else on his head makes me doubtful there hasn't been some touching up or plucking going on.



No, he hasn't had work done on
> his face. It is au naturel. Yes, his skin is
> glistening and dewey, beaming. Mine gets like that
> when I consume fresh coconut daily and high raw
> like him.


How can you be sure he hasn't had any work done on his face?


Yes, his eyes have some cloudiness. He
> said his eyes suffered a chemical spill when he
> was younger.


But why are his pupils always so dilated - even in full sun it seems? Does he have central nervous system problems or is he taking cataract medication?

You say his legs are skinny. Isn't this caused in men who have cortisol regulation problems?

Drinking high pH Kangen water is a good way to neutralize your stomach acids which is a fantastic idea for the digestive enzyme and fermentation foods industries but for human digestion it pretty much just sucks.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> No, he hasn't had work done on
> > his face. It is au naturel. Yes, his skin is
> > glistening and dewey, beaming. Mine gets like
> that
> > when I consume fresh coconut daily and high raw
> > like him.
>
>
> How can you be sure he hasn't had any work done on
> his face?

When the face is very smooth and the neck saggy and
wrinkled that is a tell tale sign that something
has been done.

I would not say facelift. I see no evidence of cutting
and stitching. You have to look very closely around the
ears and earlobes for distortion. It's common among
movie stars over 40.

But I do think he is getting lasers or peels, filler,
and possibly botox. These are all very minor things
that do not require general anasthetic and in most
cases you don't even need an MD for them. Estheticians
can do some of them.

I see nothing wrong with that.

There is another guy who is decades younger who also seems
to be going that route.

Personally I think it's kind of cool that guys are doing
this. If they were more open about it, there would not be
such a stigma.

I don't mind them dying their hair, either, but it's usually
noticeable.

Also it's not fair to attribute these things to the diet alone.
I have to give a lot of credit in my own case to my big floppy
hat and my sunscreen.

if you mean the sensation of a quantum leap in alertness, energy, joy, everything running smoothly, better strength/endurance, less sleep needed, skin, no false appetite,etc, etc then there's no doubt. (check out some of chris califano's musings)

I am zinging all over the place. I wake up immediately alert and feeling fresh. I need very little sleep.

Regarding cravings--at this point in my life they are muted and mostly absent.

and i've tested it with all kinds of things, potatoes, beans, even steamed veg all take you down a notch.

I think this might have something to do with quantity and proportions.

If you are still eating huge raw quantities with cooked as condiment (2 tbsp of hummus as a salad dressing for example distributed through 12 cups of salad) you would probably not feel weighed down as much compared to eating a couple of cooked sweet potatoes.

I don't feel weighed down at all.

So I see little incentive to remove this food that I enjoy from my diet.

Having said that, I wish there were more to see from Chris Califano. He has a very limited web presence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 03:08PM by arugula.

arugula, thanks for sharing - makes sense