Yah I know, the price is quite high. It does last me 6-7 months so I don't mind too much. I'll get around to making my own serum eventually, it doesn't seem too complicated.

I experienced post inflammatory hyperpigmentation when I was younger and had marks left over from it... The CE+Ferulic massively improved my skin. The diet stopped the acne, but red marks were left over. Also Ascorbic acid can correct previous photodamage too. Damage starts to occur from a young age
[www.insideoutsidespa.com]

Scroll down to see sun damage by age.

I'd really like to get a test to see how my skin is. Maybe I'll go to a clinic sometime

I really like how my skin looks and feels when I use the products. And, they really did improve my skin... so I now I carry on using them as a preventative measure. I had been eating very healthy high raw diet for years prior to using this serum. After using it for a few weeks I had lots of compliments about how my skin cleared up.

I understand that diet is huge, but I am doing an experiment. We'll see how it turn out over the next few years. My sister is 28 and she looks young for her age, but people think I am her younger brother. It'll be interesting to see how we diverge in our 30s! Because as you rightly said, 'intrinsic ageing' really starts in your 30s.

Most people these days tend to have accelerated ageing! 99% of the people I know from my class in high school look so much older because of their bad lifestyles. ;/

-------------------------------------------
My blog: [www.crvitality.com]

"I don't want to post a link to another forum here (not sure if that is allowed?); but please look this up on google: DHA-Accelerated Aging Hypothesis Validated"

Yes I have already seen this but the study doesn't look that impressive because it uses fish, lard, and soy. They're likely all cooked, too. I understand that once you reach a certain intake of DHA, it can start to exhibit detrimental effects, but I also understand that low levels of DHA promotes diminished cognition.

mattscr Wrote:

> I experienced post inflammatory hyperpigmentation
> when I was younger and had marks left over from
> it... The CE+Ferulic massively improved my skin.
> The diet stopped the acne, but red marks were left
> over. Also Ascorbic acid can correct previous
> photodamage too. Damage starts to occur from a
> young age

Tretinoin and/or tazarotene will be the more effective
way to combat these things as well as intrinsic signs
of aging. If you are not using them, start. They will
be rough for you as they tend to be very strong. If
you are no longer having acne you might be happier
with the weaker cream formulations.

There are lots of impressive papers, and the gold
standard Cochrane reviews basically approve only of
these two.

I use gels.

These are rx and pricey in the USA but you can get them
at a very low cost from online Indian pharmacies.

"The only good I see in juicing is that it can be a way
to incorporate more nutrition from green leaves. But the
benefits might be diminished if one is not also getting
the fiber."

You can do both - eat lots of fiber while also juicing. Juicing does not equal a low-fiber diet.

Systemic enzymes have many benefits such as improving immunity, increasing heart health, significantly reducing inflammation, fighting cancer, etc. Look up Dr. Nick Gonzalez, he's been very successful at curing cancer using enzymes as a vital part of his protocol.

This link gives a good explanation of why systemic enzymes promote longevity - [jonbarron.org] - "Enzymes are large biological molecules (mostly proteins) that speed up or catalyze chemical reactions in living organisms. They play a critical role in everyday life. In fact, they regulate every single part of your body. All of your tissues, muscles, bones, organs, and cells are run by enzymes.

They also govern every single system in your body--and all of their parts. Your digestive system, immune system, bloodstream, liver, kidneys, spleen, and pancreas, as well as your ability to see, think, feel, and breathe--the very functioning of each and every cell in your body--all depend on enzymes. All of the minerals and vitamins you eat and all of the hormones your body produces need enzymes in order to work properly. In fact, every single metabolic function in your body is governed by enzymes. Your stamina, your energy level, your ability to utilize vitamins and minerals, your immune system--all governed by enzymes. Perhaps it is not surprising, then, that most inherited metabolic diseases occur because, thanks to a faulty gene, a single enzyme is either not produced by the body at all, or is produced in a form that doesn't work. Depending on that enzyme's job, its absence means toxic chemicals can build up in your body, or an essential biochemical may not be produced. Either way, the net result is disease…and often death"

[jonbarron.org] - "As we've already discussed, in healthy digestion, stomach acid doesn't enter the stomach until about an hour after eating. But really, let's think for a moment. Do these same experts believe that your body would pack your saliva with amylase if it was going to be neutralized the moment you swallowed your food? Does anyone who has studied the body believe it knowingly wastes resources in this manner? Also, as we explored in detail in Enzymes Defined, for the most part, enzymes are not destroyed by stomach acid--merely inactivated until the pH of their environment is once again made more alkaline by the introduction of bicarbonate in the duodenum. And finally, some enzymes actually thrive in the high acid environment of the stomach--pepsin and acid stable protease, for example. And in supplements, you can use acid stable protease. The name says it all."

jtprindl Wrote:

> This link gives a good explanation of why systemic
> enzymes promote longevity -
> [jonbarron.org]
> -hmd0xYc -

He's selling them! He doesn't know what to write except
that it has to be something that will make the unwitting
consumer want to buy what he sells.

But I did a quick skim and did not find anything compelling
there. Stick with pubmed or scholar.google.com.

"He's selling them!"

He does, but nothing he said about enzymes is untrue.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Look up Dr. Nick Gonzalez, he's been
> very successful at curing cancer using enzymes as
> a vital part of his protocol.

quack quack

[www.quackwatch.com]


Notice what Dr. Barret says about dietary enzymes:

"Like all dietary proteins, enzymes are dismantled into constituent amino acids by host proteolytic enzymes in the gastrointestinal tract, thus destroying their enzymatic activity.

Should intact enzymes manage to enter the circulation, they would still have to avoid denaturation by serum proteolytic enzymes. They would have to be "smart" enough to find the "poisoned target organ" or cancer cell before destroying serum proteins and blood-vessel-wall structural proteins.

If the enzymes were to avoid those barriers, their repeated appearance in the circulation would eventually give rise to severe hypersensitivity reactions and anaphylaxis.

There seem to be good reasons for the evolutionary characteristic of preventing the absorption of proteolytic enzymes from the gastrointestinal tract."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2015 08:22PM by arugula.

"quack quack"

Lol you'd really use that website as a source of information for anything? Go tell all the cancer patients he's healed using this protocol that he's just a quack. I'm sure that would go over well. It's not like it's extremely disrespectful or anything. That website is ran by government/pharmaceutical shills, by the way. They attack naturopathic and holistic therapies.

""Like all dietary proteins, enzymes are dismantled into constituent amino acids by host proteolytic enzymes in the gastrointestinal tract, thus destroying their enzymatic activity."

[jonbarron.org]

"Can enzymes be taken orally and impact chemical reactions both within the gut and the bloodstream and produce multiple beneficial effects, or are they destroyed by stomach acid? There are some sources on the internet that would have you believe that orally administered enzymes are an absurdity because, as they say, "Since enzymes are proteins, your stomach acid digests them before they can have any beneficial impact in your gut--let alone enter your bloodstream." As it turns out, it is not supplemental enzymes that are absurd, but these claims. And they can be proven wrong in many ways, but the simplest is to give three real world examples: pepsin, amylase, and lactase.

Pepsin is an extremely powerful protein digesting enzyme that thrives in the high acid environment. It is produced in your stomach, and it not only works with the hydrochloric acid in your stomach to break down proteins, it actually requires hydrochloric acid to be produced in the first place. Here's the sequence. Pepsinogen is secreted by the chief cells in your stomach. By itself, pepsinogen is inactive and will digest nothing until it is converted into pepsin. Pepsin is produced when pepsinogen comes in contact with hydrochloric acid in the stomach. This is actually a remarkably elegant maneuver by your digestive system. Since pepsin literally digests protein, you don't want pepsin active in the chief cells themselves or it would digest them. Thus the chief cells release inactive pepsinogen--pepsin's precursor-- which is converted into pepsin only after the pepsinogen has made its way out of the chief cells and into the stomach itself, where it is converted in the presence of stomach acid. Since the wall of the stomach is coated with mucous, it is protected from the active enzyme. Pepsin can only digest your meal and not your stomach. On a related note, stomach acid doesn't actually digest protein; it merely unfolds proteins. That's where pepsin comes in. Pepsin is what breaks the bonds between amino acids that make up proteins; thus, it is the pepsin that digests proteins. The hydrochloric acid is merely the setup man in the process.

On this one example alone, the claim that stomach acid destroys enzymes in orally ingested enzymes does not stand up to the prima facie evidence. The simple truth is that most supplemental proteolytic enzymes are too big and complex to be unfolded by hydrochloric acid and thus pass through the stomach unscathed by pepsin. Now it is true they can be "rendered inactive" by the high acid environment of the stomach, but that doesn't mean that they are destroyed--simply that they are reactivated upon reaching a more alkaline environment such as that found in the intestinal tract or the bloodstream."


[www.houston-enzymes.com]

"The problem with enteric-coated enzymes is that the coating prevents enzymes from working in the stomach. Only in the neutral pH of the small intestine will they finally function. Plant-based enzymes, which comprise the bulk of enzyme supplements, are derived from plant organisms that secrete acid-stable enzymes. These enzymes have been purified and characterized so their pH optimum (acidity/alkalinity at which they work best) is well known and easily determined. The majority of these enzymes can work in a pH range of 2 to 9 with no loss of activity. This is not an opinion. The enzymes can be assayed under lab conditions at different pH and this is easily verified by enzyme manufacturers."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
The Central Role of Enzymes as Biological Catalysts

"Shop online" is what it says. That's what I see.

You can do better than this, jtprindl. I am getting bored.

"That's what I see."

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

"Do these same experts believe that your body would pack your saliva with amylase if it was going to be neutralized the moment you swallowed your food? Does anyone who has studied the body believe it knowingly wastes resources in this manner?"

You linked to a textbook that does not suggest in any way, shape, or form that exogenous dietary enzymes are required for human health or improve any health markers in any significant way.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You linked to a textbook that does not suggest in
> any way, shape, or form that exogenous dietary
> enzymes are required for human health or improve
> any health markers in any significant way.


It verified the statements of the doctor you said was making stuff up to sell enzyme supplements.

That other doctor link you provided did not list any relevant references to support the sales of his product.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Scientifically sound experimental in vitro and in vivo investigations are far advanced and document promising immunological, anti-inflammatory, anti-infectious, and antitumor/antimetastatic activities of proteolytic enzyme mixtures (containing trypsin, chymotrypsin, and papain) or bromelain. EBM level II clinical studies, which are accepted by the European Union to show safety and efficacy of medical treatments, were performed to evaluate the benefit of complementary systemic enzyme therapy in cancer patients suffering from breast and colorectal cancers and plasmacytoma. These studies demonstrated that systemic enzyme therapy significantly decreased tumor-induced and therapy-induced side effects and complaints such as nausea, gastrointestinal complaints, fatigue, weight loss, and restlessness and obviously stabilized the quality of life. For plasmacytoma patients, complementary systemic enzyme therapy was shown to increase the response rates, the duration of remissions, and the overall survival times."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Therapy with oral proteolytic enzymes (OET) with combination drug products containing papain, bromelain, trypsin, and chymotrypsin has been shown to be beneficial in clinical settings such as radiotherapy-induced fibrosis, bleomycin pneumotoxicity and immunosuppression in cancer, all of which are nowadays known to be accompanied by excessive transforming growth factor-beta (TGF-beta) production. It has been demonstrated that proteolytic enzymes reduce TGF-beta levels in serum by converting the protease inhibitor alpha2 macroglobulin (alpha2M) from the "slow" form into the "fast" form, whereby the "fast" form binds and inactivates TGF-beta irreversibly."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Strong evidence indicates that enzymotherapy ameliorates the disturbed composition and properties of blood and vessel walls, acts preventively as well as therapeutically in thromboses, thromboflebitides and consequences of venous insufficiency; it seems be prospective in afflictions of arterial bed, including vasculitides and glomerulonephritides, also. The key feature of enzymotherapy is the immunomodulatory activity. There exists a strong evidence for the favourable modulation of pathogenic autoantibodies, inhibition of the neogenesis of immune complexes and cleavage of their deposits, normalization of the T cell system, network of cytokines, adhesion molecules and inflammatory cascades. Besides the direct peptidolytic and proteolytic effects of hydrolases, the indirect effects realized in the course of interaction between the resorbed enzymes and their natural "partners"--antiproteases (mainly alfa-2-macroglobulin)--have become a topic of intensive research. The author feels, that systemic enzyme therapy should become a regular component of the treatment of immunopathologic processes in general and of angiologic diseases specially."


Those are just a few demonstrating the benefits.

1.,2. might be worth considering if your are going through chemo, desperate, and rich.

3. an opinion is being stated.

There is nothing here to suggest that a healthy person with a decent diet will be healthier by spending money on this.

"There is nothing here to suggest that a healthy person with a decent diet will be healthier by spending money on this."

Considering that they govern the body's ability to function properly, it makes sense that consistently supplying the body with an abundance of enzymes will fight aging and disease.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "The finding that pancreatic supplements reduce postprandial symptoms in healthy subjects suggests that these supplements also might be beneficial in irritable bowel syndrome."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Until fairly recently, proteases were considered primarily to be protein-degrading enzymes. However, this view has dramatically changed and proteases are now seen as extremely important signalling molecules that are involved in numerous vital processes. Protease signalling pathways are strictly regulated, and the dysregulation of protease activity can lead to pathologies such as cardiovascular and inflammatory diseases, cancer, osteoporosis and neurological disorders."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "The analysis of relevant data from published literature and the results of the author's own studies permitted identifying the most important moments of realization of the systemic enzyme therapy effects, which are as follows: 1) activation of receptors on the surface of enterocytes; 2) formation of activated alpha 2-macroglobulin (alpha 2-M) under the action of proteinases from the intestines, and realization of catalytic activity of those enzymes involved in this restrictor of proteinases; 3) modulation of cell activity by complexes alpha 2-M-proteinase; 4) activation of the system of mononuclear phagocytes; 5) influence on the balance of bodily endogenous proteolytic systems."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "Analysis of combined proteolytic activity indicates that age-dependent patterning of blood serine protease enzyme activity may be related to age-related diseases."

NuNativs Wrote:

>
> News flash, monkeys live OUTSIDE.
>
> Let me break it down for you, without Sun/Light,
> Life wouldn't exist..
> Without Air, in 6 minutes or so you won't
> exist...
> Without Water, in 3 days or so you won't exist...
> Without Earth/Food, insome 30 days or longer, you
> won't exist...
>
> Where is your loyalty, on things that matter or
> things that don't?

Well, in the wild, lives were short, nasty, and brutish.

I most certainly would have died decades ago under such
conditions.

We are living these artificially extended lives because
modern conveniences have made it easier to survive things
that would have formerly killed us.

And now we are outliving our skins by a wide margin.

You can choose to not outlive your skin by protecting it.

Or you can choose to outlive your skin, letting it rot, sag,
wrinkle, discolor, etc. and say this is all natural when
it isn't very natural for us to live so long.

The nice thing about modern life is that you can choose!

arugula wrote:
"Well, in the wild, lives were short, nasty, and brutish."

You're delusional from filtering the Sun/Light with your sunglasses so that it can't reach your brain so that it can think straight and recieve it's impulses. Health nuts pale in comparison to the descriptions below...

From the book Primitive Man:
To the south, where the food supply was more favorable, the average length of life was longer, many of the Red Men living to over a hundred years. In the Gulf states, particularly Florida, longevity reached its maximum, with early
Spanish accounts telling of Indian fathers in the latter state seeing their fifth generation before passing away.

The Brazilians come soon to maturity and arrive to a great age, and that without distempers; they also seldom become grey." Father Bechamel saw them later in the century, commenting that "They are tolerably endued with good sense, which they have the opportunity to cultivate and refine by a long train of experiences, with which the many years they live furnish them: For they count a man dies young, if he does not live above 100
years.

The women were extremely beautiful, having long hair, clear white skins, and natural healthy color in their cheeks and lips. The people were said to live to be centenarians, with freedom from wrinkles and grey hair, and to hold their
attractiveness to old age. They sustained their reproductive vigor up to and often beyond the span of three score years and ten.

Pigaffeta, the chronicler of Magellan’s voyage around the world in the sixteenth century, was one of the first to observe and write of these Indians. He asserted that "They live according to the dictates of nature, and reach an age of one hundred and twenty-five, and one hundred and forty years." The voyager, Warren, came later and found the natives to be "very vigorous in extreme old age." De Monts, arriving from France in 1604, noted that they "live to a great age, which is commonly seven score or eight score years." He also remarked that they "are lively and nimble at a hundred years old." One of the Indians, called Membertou, was said to be "above a hundred years old and yet hath not one white his head, and so ordinarily be the others: and that which is more in every age they have all their teeth and go bare-headed, not caring at least to make any hats of their skins, as the first did that used them in this part (Europe) of the world."

"This race of people live about 110 years and are very hardy people without any trace of disease. They don’t even have colds. They live as naturally as any race now left on earth and although the climate is very cold, they go about scantily clad.

The constitution of the people is the cause that the does not make so strong an impression on them, as on us; and they bear their years mighty well, turning grey very late, at four score or thereabouts; and till then they look like young men.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2015 11:28PM by NuNativs.

Two things in your post:

1. an insult

2. a non-reputable source that is impossible to verify

This is what you want people to see when you make input here? That you are mean without reason and spread fairy tales?

Your arrogant, overly educated, know it all attitude begs to be taken down a notch or too, nor are you that nice to people either. You're downright snooty.

That book I quoted from is freely available at the Soil and Health Library in the Health section...

Fairy tales hugh? Why cause it bursts your little intellectual "we're making progress" bubble? Not that I have anything against science, but as regards health primitive people lived longer, stayed youthful and were far stronger and more robust than we can imagine.

Guess what, they were immersed in nature including the Sun/Light, that's what made them so strong. I don't want to have endless arguments with you as I have better things to do, but in my opinion, the topic of being in Sun/nature has to be a component of achieving true health, diet is not that important in the grand scheme of things.

Your posts that are influencing peoples FEARS of Sun/nature are detrimental and unhealthy at best and I will periodically return to remind people of the opposite.

Good Luck...

I don't understand what those enzyme therapy references have to do with enzymes surviving digestion.

how were they introduced into the body, or were the studies in vitro?

"I don't understand what those enzyme therapy references have to do with enzymes surviving digestion."

How could they provide any benefit if they were not being digested and utilized? Why would our saliva produce enzymes if they were going to get destroyed and be useless anyways?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I don't understand what those enzyme therapy
> references have to do with enzymes surviving
> digestion."
>
> How could they provide any benefit if they were
> not being digested and utilized? Why would our
> saliva produce enzymes if they were going to get
> destroyed and be useless anyways?


that's not what i said. i said in the studies that you referenced, that showed benefits of enzyme therapy, how were the enzymes introduced into the body? intravenously? not in a body, but in a petri dish? how?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "I don't understand what those enzyme therapy
> > references have to do with enzymes surviving
> > digestion."
> >
> > How could they provide any benefit if they were
> > not being digested and utilized? Why would our
> > saliva produce enzymes if they were going to
> get
> > destroyed and be useless anyways?
>
>
> that's not what i said. i said in the studies
> that you referenced, that showed benefits of
> enzyme therapy, how were the enzymes introduced
> into the body? intravenously? not in a body, but
> in a petri dish? how?


Most of them are oral.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > jtprindl Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > "I don't understand what those enzyme therapy
> > > references have to do with enzymes surviving
> > > digestion."
> > >
> > > How could they provide any benefit if they
> were
> > > not being digested and utilized? Why would
> our
> > > saliva produce enzymes if they were going to
> > get
> > > destroyed and be useless anyways?
> >
> >
> > that's not what i said. i said in the studies
> > that you referenced, that showed benefits of
> > enzyme therapy, how were the enzymes introduced
> > into the body? intravenously? not in a body,
> but
> > in a petri dish? how?
>
>
> Most of them are oral.


didn't see that in the study. don't want to assume.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 01:30AM by fresh.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Why would our
> saliva produce enzymes if they were going to get
> destroyed and be useless anyways?

They are active in the mouth during the chewing process in the mouth.

They do not play a role in the stomach.

Amylase peak activity is at pH 6.7–7.0.

The pH of gastric acid is 1.5 to 3.5.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Why would our
> > saliva produce enzymes if they were going to
> get
> > destroyed and be useless anyways?
>
> They are active in the mouth during the chewing
> process in the mouth.
>
> They do not play a role in the stomach.
>
> Amylase peak activity is at pH 6.7–7.0.
>
> The pH of gastric acid is 1.5 to 3.5.


Many enzymes are inactived in the stomach and then reactivated in the intestines, which are much less acidic. Some enzymes thrive in gastric acid.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Many enzymes are inactived in the stomach and then
> reactivated in the intestines, which are much less
> acidic. Some enzymes thrive in gastric acid.

from quick research,
I don't see any evidence of that, except from enzyme salesmen.

i do see enzymes secreted by pancreas that are activiated in the duodenum. not the same thing.