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why 30bad is bad
Posted by: fresh ()
Date: February 24, 2015 01:29AM

[www.30bananasaday.com]


"We recommend womyn eat at least 2500 calories from fruits daily and men get at least 3000 calories and more if one wants to live an active, passionate lifestyle. We will not tolerate what we deem as "anti-fruit" posts or advice that recommends calorie restriction/or the suggestion that others are "overeating on fruit"


from a member

"So a couple of days ago I made a thread about the weight gain I've experienced on this lifestyle, because I was doubting its validity for a time. However, the more I think about it, the more I realise that this lifestyle is amazing and I have to stick it out for as long as it takes. I want to make this thread to try to encourage others with similar experiences to do the same.
Yes, it's true that I've gained a lot of weight (almost 30 kilos) on this lifestyle...."


that is 65 pounds.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: arugula ()
Date: February 24, 2015 01:43AM

Ideally, one is active and exercising enough to use all those calories. Our prehistoric ancestors were probably active for 3 or more hours per day. In that context, their kcal goals make sense.

But in real modern life people have jobs, kids, take classes, and so on, with no time for all that exercise, so those kcal requirements do not fit everyone.

They are set high so that there is minimal chance for deficiency. But they are too high for many smaller and/or less active people. Hence the weight gain.

A very high fiber diet will have reduced metabolizable energy--by 20% or more. But still this intake will be high for many smaller women such as myself.

In my own experience I found that even eating without restriction, exercising 2 hours per day, I needed no more than 1800 kcal/day. I weigh about 48 kg. To take in 2500 kcal/day without gaining I'd have to exercise heavily for 4 hrs per day.
That would be possible only if I did not have a regular job.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 24, 2015 01:59AM

I have to agree with this.
I'm very petite at only 5 foot.

I do not like the set amount of calories.
I did this for a while (and was still losing weight) BUT
I began to lose my appetite from eating so much.

I believe people should listen to their bodies and eat when
they're hungry and stop when they're satisfied.

On average, I eat between 1000cal to 1500cal.
On a day with a larger appetite, I will eat around 2000cal.

Anne Osborne eats around 1000cal when eating mono.
She does not eat over 2000cal on average.

I believe Megan Elizabeth eats on average around 1500cal.
She talks about this as well.

It may also be important to note that lower metabolism and
calorie consumption is linked with longevity.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ideally, one is active and exercising enough to
> use all those calories. Our prehistoric ancestors
> were probably active for 3 or more hours per day.
> In that context, their kcal goals make sense.
>
> But in real modern life people have jobs, kids,
> take classes, and so on, with no time for all that
> exercise, so those kcal requirements do not fit
> everyone.
>
> They are set high so that there is minimal chance
> for deficiency. But they are too high for many
> smaller and/or less active people. Hence the
> weight gain.
>
> A very high fiber diet will have reduced
> metabolizable energy--by 20% or more. But still
> this intake will be high for many smaller women
> such as myself.
>
> In my own experience I found that even eating
> without restriction, exercising 2 hours per day, I
> needed no more than 1800 kcal/day. I weigh about
> 48 kg. To take in 2500 kcal/day without gaining
> I'd have to exercise heavily for 4 hrs per day.
> That would be possible only if I did not have a
> regular job.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 02:01AM by Exeggutor.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Panchito ()
Date: February 24, 2015 03:48AM

It is not intuitive, but getting fat on carbs is probably due to hypoglycemia. Let me explain, after the short 'sugar' blood spike, there is a long trough called hypoglycemia. hypoglycemia makes the body think that it is starving because neurons and red blood cells live exclusively from glucose. The blood glucose drops too suddenly and then the body starts making fat to store it as fast as possible. The solution is to add blueberries to big smoothies or eat more fiber. Blueberries will chemically reduce the sugar spike by reducing the carb absorption in the gut.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 24, 2015 04:27AM

Interesting. I'm going to try this out.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not intuitive, but getting fat on carbs is
> probably due to hypoglycemia. Let me explain,
> after the short 'sugar' blood spike, there is a
> long trough called hypoglycemia. hypoglycemia
> makes the body think that it is starving because
> neurons and red blood cells live exclusively from
> glucose. The blood glucose drops too suddenly and
> then the body starts making fat to store it as
> fast as possible. The solution is to add
> blueberries to big smoothies or eat more fiber.
> Blueberries will chemically reduce the sugar spike
> by reducing the carb absorption in the gut.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Ela2013 ()
Date: February 24, 2015 07:26AM

This explains a lot. When I was eating so many watermelons last summer (like one /day), I gained 5 kilos. I think it was because they were mostly water and sugar, and they were highly absorbable in the body, the sugar reached the blood very quickly and I experienced that nasty dizziness due to the sugar spike I guess.

I like to eat until I'm satisfied, but still I don't feel stuffed, like there's room for some more, or, like John Kohler says, until the food doesn't taste good anymore, like the first bite did.

I now eat around 1600-1800 cals/day, sometimes I reach 2000 cals in a day.

I did reach 3000 cals and more in the past, on some days, but when I was eating walnuts or dates or a combination of those two plus banana ice cream.

On low fat high carb high water fruits/veggies, I never ate more than 2000 cals/day. And this is my favourite way of eating. I love to still be able to feel light and energetic after I finish my meals.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Prana ()
Date: February 24, 2015 09:49AM

One of the reason the 30bad diet is such bad advice is that they say to ignore what your body is telling you, and instead listen to their advice. This is why people are gaining weight on their diet until they start listening to the wisdom of their own bodies.


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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: mattscr ()
Date: February 24, 2015 01:34PM

I'm not surprised about people being banned for disagreeing. I heard a long time ago that this is how they run their forums. I think people should just be sensible and do exactly what Prana said: listen to their body.

Just eat until you feel content, but not overeating to excess just because you think you can. Even if you can, it may not be such a good idea in the long term.

Also, I'm surprised someone can gain so much weight before thinking "hey, this really isn't working out..." But I think Durians response to that is that they are 'metabolically damaged' and overeating corrects this problem. Some people can simply maintain a high calorie diet and not gain anything, regardless of whether they exercise or not. Eating a lot and staying thin is not being metabolically efficient, it's actually being very inefficient.

-------------------------------------------
My blog: [www.crvitality.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 01:37PM by mattscr.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 24, 2015 03:18PM

"Eating a lot and staying thin is not being metabolically efficient, it's actually being very inefficient."

And this is exactly why you see some leaders use detox's as a way of making their bodies more efficient and eating less. Anne Osborne talks about this in one of her youtube videos.

And watermelons??
I'm guessing you had eaten a great deal of it!
Watermelons are actually one of the fruits lowest in sugar content.

Definitely always listen to your body. It is the most perfect thing
ever given to you.

Some food for thought. I found this interesting:

click here

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: SueZ ()
Date: February 24, 2015 03:27PM

Exeggutor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

I found this interesting:
>
> click here

I found it boring.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 24, 2015 04:02PM

To each is own.

Many people on 30bad focus on sweet fruits.
But I have to agree from experience, I think
juicy fruits in general are the way to go.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exeggutor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> I found this interesting:
> >
> > click here
>
> I found it boring.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Panchito ()
Date: February 24, 2015 05:35PM

I forgot to mention that hypoglycemia could also explain the slighly higher tryglycerides found on high carb people. The adipocytes shoot fat on the blood when blood sugar drops suddenly, creating a pool of storing fat (for future) and also releasing fat on the blood, which may not be good. Obviously, if a person gets fat, the 'storage effect' is greater than the fat shooting on the blood from the dipocytes (maybe it is reabsorb) and they grow in size.

[nutritionfacts.org]

Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not intuitive, but getting fat on carbs is
> probably due to hypoglycemia. Let me explain,
> after the short 'sugar' blood spike, there is a
> long trough called hypoglycemia. hypoglycemia
> makes the body think that it is starving because
> neurons and red blood cells live exclusively from
> glucose. The blood glucose drops too suddenly and
> then the body starts making fat to store it as
> fast as possible. The solution is to add
> blueberries to big smoothies or eat more fiber.
> Blueberries will chemically reduce the sugar spike
> by reducing the carb absorption in the gut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 05:44PM by Panchito.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Ela2013 ()
Date: February 24, 2015 06:42PM

Yep, I was eating watermelons for the whole watermelon season, a large one every morning, plus my other fruits/veggies during the day.

When I was eating lots of bananas and dates, I gained weight too, again 5 kilos. Looks like the standard number for me.

As soon as I decreased the amount of sweet fruits, removed the dense fruits like bananas and dates, removed the watermelon, and increased the veggies and non-sweet fruits, I easily lost those kilos.

This is the diet that works best for me: 50% high water fruits and 50% veggies.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raw vegan for life. Vegan for the animals. Raw for my health.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 24, 2015 07:46PM

I am not 100% sold on this concept however.
In theory, it makes sense but there are people like this..

click here

She is only one example. And personally, I eat a high carb diet
and find it impossible to put on weight eating this way. My weight
has continued to drop regardless of how much I eat. I have dropped
a significant amount of weight, without exercise.

On triglycerides:

click here

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I forgot to mention that hypoglycemia could also
> explain the slighly higher tryglycerides found on
> high carb people. The adipocytes shoot fat on the
> blood when blood sugar drops suddenly, creating a
> pool of storing fat (for future) and also
> releasing fat on the blood, which may not be good.
> Obviously, if a person gets fat, the 'storage
> effect' is greater than the fat shooting on the
> blood from the dipocytes (maybe it is reabsorb)
> and they grow in size.


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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 24, 2015 07:52PM

If the veg works for you, then by all means continue!
Veggies are always great for weight loss.

And I have to agree, high water fruits are the best choice!
And berries are wonderful for blood sugar regulation.

Ela2013 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep, I was eating watermelons for the whole
> watermelon season, a large one every morning, plus
> my other fruits/veggies during the day.
>
> When I was eating lots of bananas and dates, I
> gained weight too, again 5 kilos. Looks like the
> standard number for me.
>
> As soon as I decreased the amount of sweet fruits,
> removed the dense fruits like bananas and dates,
> removed the watermelon, and increased the veggies
> and non-sweet fruits, I easily lost those kilos.
>
> This is the diet that works best for me: 50% high
> water fruits and 50% veggies.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 07:53PM by Exeggutor.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Date: February 24, 2015 10:39PM

Exeggutor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> On average, I eat between 1000cal to 1500cal.
> On a day with a larger appetite, I will eat around
> 2000cal.
>
> Anne Osborne eats around 1000cal when eating
> mono.
> She does not eat over 2000cal on average.



Eating only 1,000 calories, wow.

I understand DR recommends mainly sweet fruits like bananas because they are easy to get ripe, or ahem, bench ripened. He says the citrus and stone fruits are more difficult to find ripe. He is right about the citrus, l have an orange tree and l eat none of the fruit because it is never properly ripe.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 24, 2015 11:26PM

Yes I know it seems like a small amount. But I promise I always eat til I am full and satisfied. I typically do not like the feeling of being overly stuffed.

I should make it clear that when I lost most of my weight, I was eating much more food. Huge amounts for a few months.

But I also have a sedentary job and im only 5 foot.
And I typically dont eat til noon. If im hungry of course, I will eat sooner. I dont deprive myself. but I get in my water til 12 to make sure im well hydrated, and let my digestive system rest.

Lemon water gives me a lot of energy.

I have a few days a month where my appetite surges and I'll eat nearly double. But then my appetite goes back again.

I always have tons of oranges/clementines laying around.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------
> Eating only 1,000 calories, wow.
>
> I understand DR recommends mainly sweet fruits
> like bananas because they are easy to get ripe, or
> ahem, bench ripened. He says the citrus and stone
> fruits are more difficult to find ripe. He is
> right about the citrus, l have an orange tree and
> l eat none of the fruit because it is never
> properly ripe.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 11:28PM by Exeggutor.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: CaptainColeslaw ()
Date: February 25, 2015 05:01AM

Well ya see to make the coleslaw vegan, ya just use the veganaise instead of the mayo ya see. The coleslaw is creamy and perfect with the daikon and jicima along wif da cabbage.

hmmmmmm coleslaw. Nothing else like it!!

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Date: February 25, 2015 05:03AM

Stop all this nonsense about coleslaw. Nobody wants to eat that slop. Now zucchini fries, that's the ticket!!! Get em.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Vitality ()
Date: February 25, 2015 05:08AM

Really? I honestly thought it was near impossible to gain weight on ONLY fruit? Seriously, some people gain weight on eating watermelons? Wow I didn't think it was possible. All fruitarians I have seen have been almost too skinny. And durianrider and freelee are very thin also.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: arugula ()
Date: February 25, 2015 05:12AM

I agree, it seems impossible with only unlimited sweet fruit.

But they are advocating unlimited cooked carbohydrate after 4 pm so it is easy to go overboard on the potatoes, rice, etc.

I seriously doubt than anyone gaining weight is doing so from raw unprocessed fruit only.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Vitality ()
Date: February 25, 2015 05:15AM

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree, it seems impossible with only unlimited
> sweet fruit.
>
> But they are advocating unlimited cooked
> carbohydrate after 4 pm so it is easy to go
> overboard on the potatoes, rice, etc.
>
> I seriously doubt than anyone gaining weight is
> doing so from raw unprocessed fruit only.


But that is really not my experience either, if you look at Mcdougall etc, he's also very thin and so is his wife (Mary mcdougall). I'm born thin and cannot get overweight no matter how much I eat but even I have noticed that my body fat has become lower on a low-fat high carb vegan diet. And my flesh is more solid also. And I can some days eat huge amounts of starch, potatoes, quinoa, rice, corn, etc.
It must be extremely hard to gain weight on a lowfat vegan diet but if you happen to do, you must have a seriously low metabolism.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: arugula ()
Date: February 25, 2015 05:42AM

Or cheat, or miscalculate your intakes.

Underestimating intakes is chronic among people trying to lose weight or gaining without wanting to.

The only way you can know for sure how much these people are eating is to lock them up in a metabolic ward.

In that context, people tend to lose or gain exactly what is expected.

I became aware of kcals when I was around 12. I assimilated that info and I can pretty accurately judge my intakes and the consequences.

Many people did not go through this at an early age and it's more difficult for them to do it accurately. We have a lot of online free tools now that make it easier but people still have a tendency to fudge it.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 25, 2015 04:34PM

It is hard to eat large quantities of potatoes and whole rice, etc.
At least, this is my experience. Potatoes are at the top of
charts for satiety.

Even when I was eating larger portions of these foods when I first
started (eating 2000+ cals a day), I lost a good amount of weight.

Have to agree, I've never experienced weight gain on fruit.
But potatoes worked for me for a really long time.

I have to agree that they're a good backup plan.
They're cheap for people who can't financially
afford all fruit. Would I eat them every day? No.
But maybe if I went out to eat with friends.
They're not optimal but a whole food.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But they are advocating unlimited cooked
> carbohydrate after 4 pm so it is easy to go
> overboard on the potatoes, rice, etc.
>
> I seriously doubt than anyone gaining weight is
> doing so from raw unprocessed fruit only.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Utopian Life ()
Date: February 25, 2015 05:16PM

I'm surprised the 30bad site is still up? lol

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: arugula ()
Date: February 25, 2015 08:25PM

I think a lot of people are clued in about the diet. The message board does not get much activity.

But their videos are still getting views. They are entertaining, I give them that.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Date: February 25, 2015 09:46PM

There are many possible reasons why raw vegans consuming lots of fruit can gain weight. One could be lack of selenium negatively effecting the body from making T3 cells. Iodine deficiency could be another factor etc etc. People who are not doing a good diet can easily neglect these things on a fruit based diet and pay the price.

www.thesproutarian.com

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 26, 2015 12:29AM

Some people who've had success with their diet have YouTube channels
talking about their experience and also promoting the diet.


Regardless of some of their recommendations, they've done a good job
with spreading awareness and bringing more people to the vegan lifestyle.

I support their passion for health, animals and the environment.
In the end, they're supporting positive causes.


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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: coconutcream ()
Date: February 26, 2015 12:38AM

I just went over there and saw a plate of lentils rice and beans.










Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2015 12:42AM by coconutcream.

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Re: why 30bad is bad
Posted by: Exeggutor ()
Date: February 26, 2015 01:04AM

Their goal is to make people vegans.
Realistically, not everyone is going to be raw
nor does it appeal to a large majority of people atm.

But no calorie restrictions and "comfort" foods do.
I'd rather people be eating rice and beans than burgers any day.


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