Do you think you could be a victim of a story? I met this person in the sauna. This person is the biggest of all (severe obessity). Had knee surgery and other complications. It was striking to hear from her that she only wants to lose 35 pounds (she needs to lose at least a hundred) and that she does not want to be skinny. I was saying to myself, are you for real? She had been internet searching and had this collection of ideas in her head. She did not believe in calory restriction and she believed in a genetic condition that made her fat. How could anybody help a person when that person is in deep denial?

Hi Panchito.

It's OK. I support her attempt to gain her health back. 35 pounds might be the perfect goal to begin with. It's extremely difficult for an obese person to lose weight, and it's often helpful to set goals that feel achievable in the short term. If met, these goals will help build confidence in success. My understanding is that losing 10% of current body weight is a good first goal to aim for. So for instance, a 35-pound weight loss would be an appropriate goal if her current weight is around 350 pounds. If/when her first goal is met, she may decide to adjust her vision to a new goal.

Calorie restriction is difficult for anybody; but for an obese person, it is unrelenting torture. Success is usually only short-term. Permanent weight loss requires a lifestyle change. Better to focus on:

-introducing more luscious fruits, vegetables, and whole unprocessed foods of her choice to replace not-so-healthy stuff (A well-planned vegetarian/vegan eating pattern is one evidence-based option for long-term weight loss).

-adding a regular exercise program.

-finding support.

Genetic conditions are rarely the sole cause of obesity, and the belief that they are can be self-defeating. She needs better information than she's currently getting.

Then again, don't we all!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2015 09:24PM by suncloud.

In my experience, food addicts are no different than alcoholics or drug addicts. They may TALK about quitting, but have 0 intention of making any REAL changes to their bad habits. They are addicted, it's a chemical dependency in their brain, and no amount of advice or help is going to drive them to change UNLESS THEY WANT TO. If anything, unsolicited advice may just make them angry or dive deeper into their addiction. They also tend to rationalize their addiction away with a myriad of excuses (with food addicts, "bad genetics" seems to be a popular one).

There is also supposed to be a common condition where one cannot lose weight no matter what they do according to Dr Blaylock. This is said to be because the excitotoxins in the foods are now turning off the fat regulating genes. So if one lives on lettuce and runs all day they are not supposed to lose weight because the toxins have messed up their enzyme functioning or something. I haven't seen any papers supporting this view, so just saying.

www.thesproutarian.com

People may have trouble losing weight because of wrong expectations. They could have the idea that it comes off linearly without plateus or water changes. But it seems hard to convince them of anything. They may agree on the theory and then turn around and do whatever they want by using other pieces of theories.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you think you could be a victim of a story? I
> met this person in the sauna. This person is the
> biggest of all (severe obessity). Had knee surgery
> and other complications. It was striking to hear
> from her that she only wants to lose 35 pounds
> (she needs to lose at least a hundred) and that
> she does not want to be skinny. I was saying to
> myself, are you for real? She had been internet
> searching and had this collection of ideas in her
> head. She did not believe in calory restriction
> and she believed in a genetic condition that made
> her fat. How could anybody help a person when that
> person is in deep denial?


i deal with this all the time working at whole foods.



some people can get 10% extra off their employee discount if they meet a few health qualifications. i was talking to one of our employees while making her a sandwhich which she asked specifically for: extra mayo, extra ham and turkey with bacon, extra fresh mozzorella (ended up being the whole packet which normally makes three or four sandwhiches), avocado and no veggies.



now i'm not sure if she qualifies as obese, but she is very over weight. when i was telling her about the discount and its requirements, i said, well you need to have a certain BMI, be a non smoker, they measure your cholesterol and blood pressure. she stopped me there, "well thats why i dont go for the extra discount, high blood pressure is genetic in my family." i finished making her disgusting sanwhich at a loss wondering how it was that she thought her genetic blood pressure was the one thing keeping her from qualifying for this discount, wanting to ask her if she realized what she was soon to put into her mouth and the effects it could have on her health.




there is so many like this on an almost daily basis. very large, sad and angry looking people stop at the juice bar with their children who seem to get it and ridicule them for ordering a smoothie or juice, saying its 'too healthy for me' or
'probably tastes like grass', etc. its sad.


i think i've mentioned it here before, but i'm one of maybe three other vegans in my entire store. most people make fun of what the way i eat, playfully but the intention is still there. most everyone i work with has some sort of health issue, i would say 85% of people are overweight.

tezcal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------




> most people make fun of what the way i eat,
> playfully but the intention is still there.

I get teased in real life, too, but nowhere am I given anywhere near such a hard time about my raw vegan diet as I am here on this site by so many dripping with compassion caring high carb, etc., vegans who seem to think their diets are not just as experimental as mine is. At least I know mine is experimental.

tezcal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you think you could be a victim of a story?
> I
> > met this person in the sauna. This person is
> the
> > biggest of all (severe obessity). Had knee
> surgery
> > and other complications. It was striking to
> hear
> > from her that she only wants to lose 35 pounds
> > (she needs to lose at least a hundred) and that
> > she does not want to be skinny. I was saying to
> > myself, are you for real? She had been internet
> > searching and had this collection of ideas in
> her
> > head. She did not believe in calory restriction
> > and she believed in a genetic condition that
> made
> > her fat. How could anybody help a person when
> that
> > person is in deep denial?
>
>
> i deal with this all the time working at whole
> foods.
>
>
>
> some people can get 10% extra off their employee
> discount if they meet a few health qualifications.
> i was talking to one of our employees while making
> her a sandwhich which she asked specifically for:
> extra mayo, extra ham and turkey with bacon, extra
> fresh mozzorella (ended up being the whole packet
> which normally makes three or four sandwhiches),
> avocado and no veggies.
>
>
>
> now i'm not sure if she qualifies as obese, but
> she is very over weight. when i was telling her
> about the discount and its requirements, i said,
> well you need to have a certain BMI, be a non
> smoker, they measure your cholesterol and blood
> pressure. she stopped me there, "well thats why i
> dont go for the extra discount, high blood
> pressure is genetic in my family." i finished
> making her disgusting sanwhich at a loss wondering
> how it was that she thought her genetic blood
> pressure was the one thing keeping her from
> qualifying for this discount, wanting to ask her
> if she realized what she was soon to put into her
> mouth and the effects it could have on her
> health.
>
>
>
>
> there is so many like this on an almost daily
> basis. very large, sad and angry looking people
> stop at the juice bar with their children who seem
> to get it and ridicule them for ordering a
> smoothie or juice, saying its 'too healthy for me'
> or
> 'probably tastes like grass', etc. its sad.
>
>
> i think i've mentioned it here before, but i'm one
> of maybe three other vegans in my entire store.
> most people make fun of what the way i eat,
> playfully but the intention is still there. most
> everyone i work with has some sort of health
> issue, i would say 85% of people are overweight.


People enjoy having a built-in excuse for their poor habits so they can always justify it to themselves without taking responsibility. The "my genes doom me" mentality for many diseases or conditions is now irrelevant as we now know that through diet and lifestyle we can change the expression of our genes (epigenetics). Disease-causing genes can be switched off while healing and anti-aging genes can be switched on.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> People enjoy having a built-in excuse for their
> poor habits so they can always justify it to
> themselves without taking responsibility. The "my
> genes doom me" mentality for many diseases or
> conditions is now irrelevant as we now know that
> through diet and lifestyle we can change the
> expression of our genes (epigenetics).
> Disease-causing genes can be switched off while
> healing and anti-aging genes can be switched on.

So brilliant, that is the quote of the day week

Whatever the case, healing always begins with compassion - for ourselves and/or for others. IMO, it's always important to remind ourselves of this.

Some of us are very fortunate to have found something that seems to work for us, and to have had the influences and exposure that brought us to this point! Yes, it takes work; but all of us stand on the shoulders of others to a certain extent. Are we prepared to lend our shoulders now to others (and be patient until we are asked)?

Many who are obese were raised obese and have been subject to that influence all their lives. If an obese person is even IN a health food store, this may indicate a significant step for them.

In my experience, many who have obesity- and diet-related conditions are grateful and open to whatever new sources of information they can find. And no one can be written off as a hopeless case, or be assigned blame for acceptance of misinformation (which may hopefully be only temporary). As long as one of us is suffering, none of us is entirely whole - and all of us has responsibility.

IMO, it's unfortunate that health foods stores now commonly stock meats and have their vegan employees prepare meaty items for customers. This was not the case before the advent of the Whole Foods chain (although Whole Foods also has a lot of good to offer).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2015 08:38PM by suncloud.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Many who are obese were raised obese and have been
> subject to that influence all their lives. If an
> obese person is even IN a health food store, this
> may indicate a significant step for them.

Have you seen this?

[www.youtube.com]

tezcal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i finished
> making her disgusting sanwhich at a loss wondering
> how it was that she thought her genetic blood
> pressure was the one thing keeping her from
> qualifying for this discount, wanting to ask her
> if she realized what she was soon to put into her
> mouth and the effects it could have on her
> health.


Tezcal, have you considered requesting a transfer into a different department? Maybe the produce department?

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Have you seen this?
>
> [www.youtube.com]

I hadn't seen it SueZ. This video is amazing, and I hope it receives many viewers! Only 6 minutes.

It brought tears. Go Vicky Tang!!!!

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Have you seen this?
> >
> > [www.youtube.com]
>
> I hadn't seen it SueZ. This video is amazing, and
> I hope it receives many viewers! Only 6 minutes.
>
>
> It brought tears. Go Vicky Tang!!!!

is she saying that DR should show more compassion because he's making the vegan movement look bad?

or for her personally because it makes her feel bad?

i think what he says is just that there is no emotional eating, that if you eat the right foods you can eat all you want - binge on the right foods.

I hope you shared your knowledge with her and work her up, I mean woke her up and you can work her up too

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tezcal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i finished
> > making her disgusting sanwhich at a loss
> wondering
> > how it was that she thought her genetic blood
> > pressure was the one thing keeping her from
> > qualifying for this discount, wanting to ask
> her
> > if she realized what she was soon to put into
> her
> > mouth and the effects it could have on her
> > health.
>
>
> Tezcal, have you considered requesting a transfer
> into a different department? Maybe the produce
> department?


I did. I now work at the juice and smoothie bar. Its still not perfect as i am forced to use conventional produce, but at least i am able to have better conversations about health.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever the case, healing always begins with
> compassion - for ourselves and/or for others. IMO,
> it's always important to remind ourselves of this.
>
>
> Some of us are very fortunate to have found
> something that seems to work for us, and to have
> had the influences and exposure that brought us to
> this point! Yes, it takes work; but all of us
> stand on the shoulders of others to a certain
> extent. Are we prepared to lend our shoulders now
> to others (and be patient until we are asked)?
>
> Many who are obese were raised obese and have been
> subject to that influence all their lives. If an
> obese person is even IN a health food store, this
> may indicate a significant step for them.
>
> In my experience, many who have obesity- and
> diet-related conditions are grateful and open to
> whatever new sources of information they can find.
> And no one can be written off as a hopeless case,
> or be assigned blame for acceptance of
> misinformation (which may hopefully be only
> temporary). As long as one of us is suffering,
> none of us is entirely whole - and all of us has
> responsibility.
>
> IMO, it's unfortunate that health foods stores now
> commonly stock meats and have their vegan
> employees prepare meaty items for customers. This
> was not the case before the advent of the Whole
> Foods chain (although Whole Foods also has a lot
> of good to offer).


i do have compassion for these people, and have tried to talk to many of my employees and customers. that's how they know how i eat enough to make fun of it. i will always try at least once. but its kind of eerie how similar the answers are across the board: "thats too healthy for me" is probably the majority of what i hear. other popular ones are "my grandmother/grandfather ate nothing but candy and fried foods and lived to be in his nineties" and lastly "i'v been eating this way my whole life, not going to change it now"



i've gotten a few people to add a few more healthy things to their diet but by it largely falls on deaf ears.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2015 02:12PM by tezcal.

tezcal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>> ... I now work at the juice and smoothie bar.
> Its still not perfect as i am forced to use
> conventional produce, but at least i am able to
> have better conversations about health.


Hey tezcal, GOOD MOVE, literally!!!!

In my opinion, your concern regarding others' food choices is an indication of your compassion. And you're setting a good example that others will hopefully follow.

Sometimes, that's all a person can do. But it's a lot.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2015 06:13PM by suncloud.

Don't waste your time trying to help people who doesn't want to be helped.

If she wants to be fat and sick, let her be that. Those people hate to take responsibility for their own lives and they get personally insulted if you tell them that their health is in their own hands and not in their genes etc.

this vid is another example of the title of this post:

self made stories that destroy reallistic perceptions

[www.youtube.com]

Vitality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't waste your time trying to help people who
> doesn't want to be helped.
>
> If she wants to be fat and sick, let her be that.
> Those people hate to take responsibility for their
> own lives and they get personally insulted if you
> tell them that their health is in their own hands
> and not in their genes etc.

Vitality, I agree that simply sharing the facts as we see them is often not an effective strategy for helping another person.

But no one "wants" to be fat and sick. People simply don't all have the same understanding of the facts, nor the same motivation to seek change. Peer and family support may be opposed or absent. And even when change is desired, it's often extremely difficult to follow through - more difficult than we may possibly be aware of.

another converstaion today at the sauna (tipical).


BIG BELLY GUY: Look at the oriental women. They don't get fat.

TREMENDOUS FAT GUY: All oriental people eat is fish heads and rice. I couldn't do that.

BIG BELLY GUY: I went to Country Buffet last week. Everything in moderation.

Yes, that's the mantra: "Everything in moderation".

I think it was Trive who commented that "Everything in moderation is OK if you want to be moderately healthy."

Hi Trive, if you're out there reading this.