organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yes I know what the recommendation is and I
> don't
> > agree with it.
> >
> > do you agree with all of the "recommendations"
> > from the authorities?
> >
> > seriously?
>
> Yes i agree with recommendations that generally
> have a wealth of research validating their role
> via a number of different credible studies.
>

Great! I don't.

> In this case if you are seriously trying to
> suggest that hypertriglyceridemia isn't a proven
> significant predictor of increased cardiovascular
> disease risk, then i don't know what to say,
> especially since ive given you references backing
> up my points.
>
> Ive also included another very thorough study on
> the other page which concluded:
>
> "This scientific statement reviews the pivotal
> role of triglycerides in lipid metabolism and
> reaffirms that triglyceride is not directly
> atherogenic but represents an important biomarker
> of CVD risk because of its association with
> atherogenic remnant particles and apo CIII."
>

Right - it's a biomarker and not directly causative and may not cause problems if other factors are not in place.


>
>
> You can't just stick your fingers in your ears and
> ignore everything fresh, especially when there is
> robust scientific proof right infront of you.
>
> Anyway, we've been through this. I think we've
> took this particular topic as far as it will go,
> no amount of debating will ever change the fact


> that diets exceeding 60% of total calories from
> carbs to raise triglycerides, which is what were
> talking about here in relation to Kristina's blood
> test results indicating hypertriglyceridemia.

Totally do not agree with this statement as a general rule and I have given you many reasons why. We can be free to disagree and you can be free to believe that you are correct.

I am not saying to ignore anything.

I would question any numbers out of range, but also keep in mind my own beliefs that vary from standard values.

And to be very clear, I absolutely do think that there is "cooked science" and in this case what that means is that the results from studies based on cooked eating people may not apply to someone eating raw fruit and veg. Or do you not think that cooking causes changes to macronutrients that may impact health outcomes ?

organic1,

WHY WERE HARLEY'S TRIGLYCERIDES IN NORMAL RANGE AFTER 11 YEARS HIGH FRUIT?

please explain this falsification of the theory.

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > organic1,
> >
> > WHY WERE HARLEY'S TRIGLYCERIDES IN NORMAL RANGE
> > AFTER 11 YEARS HIGH FRUIT?
> >
> > please explain this falsification of the
> theory.
>
> I don't know, maybe its because he would regularly
> yo-yo'd between being fully raw and then binging
> on massive amounts of cooked food.
>

irrelevant to the point


> So really his diet has probably always been more
> towards 50% raw/50% cooked in essence, which again
> is getting back to being a plant based diet.

I knew you would come up with some lame excuse.

Your theory has NOTHING to do with cooked / raw !

It's carbs! and he without any doubt was/is a carb predominant eater !


>
> Why did i not develop high triglycerides after
> drinking 10+ cans of soda daily and unlimited
> refined sugar sweets on a junk food diet for over
> 15+ years ?
>

show the results!

and you have just falsified the theory again.


> Where as the people who are really high fruit
> 80/10/10 or 90/5/5 long term all run into
> problems.
>

This is completely false but I know why you want to keep saying it.
It's ok. Eventually the sun will explode and it won't matter, right?



> Ask yourself the same question, you eat alot of
> fruit, but also enjoy the occasional fish and id
> bet many others foods that you care to not let on,
> which naturally balance out your diet.
>


What a load of Nonsense.



> Ask yourself why is Harley no longer 100% raw and
> 80/10/10 high fruit and back eating lots of cooked
> foods as staple ?

Didn't suit his lifestyle? cooked is addictive?

what's your point?

we are not talking about all raw , we are discussing high carbs and triglycerides.

or are you now claiming that high triglycerides is only caused by raw diet?
that would be counter to the studies that you're referencing.


you have been debunked, unless you are going to claim that your theory only works sometimes.

I have just sent a msg to kristina regarding her fasting state during the test. maybe i will get lucky and she will respond.

The Lying Man wrote:

<<<Where as the people who are really raw long term all run into problems.>>>

Straw Man Arguments & "Universal Quantifier" Fallacies...

[www.youtube.com]
11:35 Minute Video

organic1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It didn't falsify the theory, it reinforced my
> point if anything.
>

wow, you are hilarious.

so the theory only applies to raw fooders, even though it doesn't.
gotcha.


> That you can eat massive amounts of junk food and
> still not develop those abnormal CVD biomarkers
> that Kristina and many other 80/10/10ers do, some
> in as little as 6 months of following the diet.
>

you have shown exactly zero of your results.


> Which shows you just how bad a raw vegan 80/10/10
> diet is for health, when even SAD junk food diets
> can produce better results in the short-term lol.
>

I know!! 30 years of high fruit raw diet! horrible results!
debunking you left and right!


> Of course her doctor will have required her to
> have been fasted for her lipid/cholesterol markers
> just as any other regular blood test usually
> requires you too.
>
> Your clutching at straws and even if she wasn't
> fasted it still doesn't account for the abnormal
> results, especially the low HDL and high VLDL, low
> iron stores etc.

iron stores are elevated in normal eaters and her numbers are ok.

hdl and vldl are going to differ from normal baseline of normal eaters and there is no causation, just like there is no causation from high TG.

I await your results.

The Lying Man edited his post once again and wrote:

<<<Where as the people who are really high fruit 80/10/10 or 90/5/5 long term all run into problems.>>>

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Same Old Song And Dance...
Posted by: John Rose
Date: December 29, 2013 01:30PM

Some things never change!

Here is a Post I wrote over 11 years ago, so add 11 to all of the numbers below.

Same Old Song And Dance...
John Rose (---.158.47.153.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net)
Date: 09-10-02 08:24

It's obvious to me that our lifestyle threatens a lot of different people for a lot of different reasons...money being the biggest one of all. Stop and think about...How can anyone discredit something that can be so easily proved like raw food? The only answer is to say that it doesn't work long term. This has been a common theme over the years...in fact, 2 years ago I received this email which explains some of the BS that we see on our BB...

"These guys have 3 basic strategies, one is to say that raw food doesn't work long term with nothing backing it up. Two they pretend to be another person and make a fake story of how they were on all raw and it didn't work have gone back to cooked and everything is better example - long plays post. They say that raw fooders have mental problems and are filled with anger. They insult people with things like raw fooders all eat cooked food in secret trying to get you to react in anger so they can lay claim to the statement that raw fooders are angry and dogmatic. These guys thrive on hate and making others angry. ..."

For the record, I have been doing this for over 12 years and my life is getting better not worse...my vision is better now than it was 10 and even 20 years ago...I do not feel like I am aging like everyone else my age...I also do not look emaciated...I am still very lean and muscular...it doesn't make any sense to eat any different than the way all of the other animals have been eating for 500,000,000 years.

Personally, if I tried something and failed at it, I would first question whether I did it right before I said that it was wrong. Perhaps some people are not this honest with themselves and cannot accept that they failed by doing something wrong, so they blame the diet. In that case, by all means let's find out what they did so that it doesn't happen to others.

Peace and Love..........John
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

by the way low b12 can be associated with lipid problems, so that may be an issue.

From the Doctor who did the test.


"This was not a fasting test and she eats lots of carbs so her triglycerides were slightly high but that is not clinically significant. Her HDL is low which we see in vegans. HDL is a carrier protein for lipids but if you don't eat fat you don't need HDL. LDL particle size is most important measure but with LDL so low her particle size must be very low"

plus

I don't advocate necessarily a raw vegan diet. I gotta have my beans and steamed veggies, but I have never seen any evidence that it is harmful, and actually may be very healthy.

although I am sure that Dr. Chris knows better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 01:42AM by fresh.

by the way harley's triglcerides were .7 mmol/L

and as we can see above this whole conversation is moot since as I have said repeatedly that she was not in a fasting state as the doctor confirmed.

and this also explains the lack of glucose test due to not fasting state that suez and chris were whining condescendingly about, it turns out pointlessly. by the way that is a test that harley's numbers were also fine on.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 01:54AM by fresh.

It's too hard to believe that both she and the doctor were unaware and/or simply let slide that these test results would be worthless if she was not in a fasting state. There is no good reason to believe she was not in a fasting state, imo. Her glucose was 92 ...

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's too hard to believe that both she and the
> doctor were unaware and/or simply let slide that
> these test results would be worthless if she was
> not in a fasting state. There is no good reason to
> believe she was not in a fasting state, imo. Her
> glucose was 92 ...


we don't know exactly when the test was given or when she had last eaten but 92 is within range either way during different times during the day

and that does not make the test results worthless.

but you are prone to exaggeration, so i will let that slide

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's too hard to believe that both she and the
> > doctor were unaware and/or simply let slide
> that
> > these test results would be worthless if she
> was
> > not in a fasting state. There is no good reason
> to
> > believe she was not in a fasting state, imo.
> Her
> > glucose was 92 ...
>
>
> we don't know exactly when the test was given or
> when she had last eaten but 92 is within range
> either way during different times during the day
>
> and that does not make the test results
> worthless.
>
> but you are prone to exaggeration, so i will let
> that slide


I wonder if she ever checks her blood sugar for herself. I wish she would. When my lipid panel's were as bad as her's were my glucose was 89. One test isn't good enough as I found out.


Kristina is taking protein powders now. Maybe that's a contributing factor to why her looks have changed so drastically relatively quickly.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Kristina is taking protein powders now. Maybe
> that's a contributing factor to why her looks have
> changed so drastically relatively quickly.


reference?

JR,


- why has her face become so bloated?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Kristina is taking protein powders now. Maybe
> > that's a contributing factor to why her looks
> have
> > changed so drastically relatively quickly.
>
>
> reference?

Reference?

<<<- why has her face become so bloated?>>>

I saw Kristina just recently and her face did not look bloated. In fact, she looks a lot different in person than her videos as the videos tend to make her look heavier.

Straw Man Arguments are an admission of defeat!!!

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SueZ Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Kristina is taking protein powders now. Maybe
> > > that's a contributing factor to why her looks
> > have
> > > changed so drastically relatively quickly.
> >
> >
> > reference?
>
> Reference?


Straight from the horse's mouth on one of her resent ewey gooey recipe videos.

Sue Schadenfreude wrote:

When I was a little girl, my mother told me that I was different and that I would NOT be able to find Pleasure in things that other people found Pleasure in, but that I would find Pleasure in making other people Miserable and that I would be good at It and that our entire family is good at It because we are a family of Psychopaths who can only find Pleasure in things that make other people Miserable!!!

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > fresh Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SueZ Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > > Kristina is taking protein powders now.
> Maybe
> > > > that's a contributing factor to why her
> looks
> > > have
> > > > changed so drastically relatively quickly.
> > >
> > >
> > > reference?
> >
> > Reference?
>
>
> Straight from the horse's mouth on one of her
> resent ewey gooey recipe videos.

BTW, jrose just recently posted, on one of the many threads he has boorishly spam bombed back to the raw vegan stone age, that he is on the same diet that Kristina is on...

I wonder why she's taking protein powder and what kind.

inorganic1,

From what I can tell, this is what you're fearmongering about?


"Recent meta-analyses of prospective studies indicate that elevated
triglycerides are also an independent risk factor for CHD. Factors contributing to elevated
(higher than normal) triglycerides in the general population include: obesity and overweight,
physical inactivity, cigarette smoking, excess alcohol intake, high carbohydrate diets (>60% of
energy intake),"

where are the actual studies?

you really think that carbs are carbs?
french fries are the same as blueberries?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder why she's taking protein powder and what
> kind.


She said the brand of protein powder but did not say why she's taking it. rose, who says he's on the same diet as Kristina, maybe can tell you what their reasoning is for that addition.

thank you Suez, I didn't want to go through all her videos to find it.

that is very strange.

As I've said before, I think a lot of people on this site...and in life, are sugar addicts. They need it because they are not functioning properly to start with. Please, do yourselves a favor and get a Live Blood Analysis done by a reputable technician so you can see for yourselves. There is a conspiracy by the Health Community and they don't want you to know that you might be full of pathogens and don't even know it? Yeast, parasites, bacteria etc.
Once you see these in your blood with your own eyes, life will never be the same. Or, just to see how healthy your blood cells are is a big eye opener, are all the red blood cells clumping etc. it is quite amazing. The fact that the government don't force the Health Community to do this tells me the truth about THEM! liars!

Superjuice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Please, do yourselves a favor and
> get a Live Blood Analysis done by a reputable
> technician so you can see for yourselves.

There is no such technician on this or any other planet.

all kristina needs to do is move to canada to get more healthy

[www.reducetriglycerides.com]

>Sprouts are one of the most concentrated natural sources of vitamins, minerals, enzymes, trace elements, amino-acids and proteins on Earth

But
Sprouts may contain toxins or anti nutrients.
The young plant wants to grow and does not want to be eaten.
Some claims the toxin level is too minimal to be a concern [www.sproutnet.com]