Hi,sorry for the double topic but I figured it would draw in people who might be able to help.

I'm not a raw foodist, but have recently been eating healthier with more fruits and veggies. I've recently been diagnosed with Gallbladder Dysfunction (shown through a test that watches for GB emptying. Normal is 35%, I'm borderline low with 32.5%) and would like prevent the need for removal. So I did some research and found information on supplements/herbs and diet recommendations for Gallbladder health. Unfortunately, most of it has to do with Gallstones, but some with healthy contractions. Plus, what's good for the Liver and Gallbladder should be good for Gallbladder Dysfunction. So if anyone knows anything about Gallbladder Dysfunction, that'd be great.

Now for the real reason I came to this forum...

Since I need to improve my diet for my gallbladder (which involves more vegetation and less animal, fats, dair) I went to a nutritionist. She seems to work mostly with weight-loss, so wasn't that much help. The book she gave me suggestions on milk, cheese, condiments, dressings, etc. I don't want to eat those and want to stick to a low percentage of processed foods. However, what I did gain from her and which was one of the reasons I went was to know some levels of fats, proteins, etc. I've switched to healthier foods in the past, only to stop because it was making me anxious. I felt maybe it was lack of protein or fat or calories from jumping in to fast. She gave me a recommendation of 80g of protein and 60-70g of fat, and 2700 calories (very little activity).

I'm 6'2", about 175lbs, 26 Male. Last couple months haven't been the worst diet as I've bought more "healthier" (quoted for inaccuracy) foods from Trader Joes. Such as frozen meals (not dinner trays) of Spinach Pie, Turkey Meatballs, Chicken Sausage, Nitrite Free Lunchmeats, etc. Before that I ate out pretty much everyday, and often fast food. Anyway, I've jumped into a healthier diet without much trouble, but according to my calculations I'm way off of my caloric needs. I'm falling short about 1000 calories. That'll be an extra big problem when I begin to exercise more.

So my question is, how do I get more calories, but remain on a relatively healthy and unprocessed diet? Fruits are excessive in sugar and not overly high in calories, and veggies are low in calories and also not my favorite.

Here's my typical diet for the last week or so...

1st meal: Soy yogurt, lecithin, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, apple, Odwalla Supefood Juice. And my supplements, which includes EFA's. Calories equal out to be 400+.

2nd meal: Snack of piece of fruit, 2 whole grain snack bars (Kashi). I increased this meal to 2 snack bars for the purposes of more calories. It equals out to 300+ calories, plus the fruit. So perhaps 350-400 calories.

3rd and 4th meal are pretty much the same: 3+ oz's of meat (turkey, fish, chicken), slice of whole grain bread, and veggies with some Flax Oil squirted on. Going off the bread and flax labels and info from the nutritionist's book (small magazine like book), these meals equal out to about 350-400 calories, not counting the veggies.

So those four meals combined, best case scenario equal 1600 calories not yet counting the veggies.

I'm having trouble finding the caloric count of the veggies because the book goes by Cups and I weighed by Ounces (no online conversion found). I'd think Ounces is a better form of measurement considering a cup measures volume and each vegetable based on shape and cut will fit differently. Anyway, 3rd and 4th meal may contain 8-12 oz's of mixed veggies lightly steamed (few baby carrots, few cherry tomatoes,a small handful of spring greens, couple asparagus spears, 5 slices of cucumber, 5 slices zuchinni, 6+ green beans, 5+ sugar peapods, stalk of celery, couple sprigs of parsley, few beet slices). I'm trying to get a mix of veggies to get a variety of nutrition. I'm also avoid things recommended by sites dealing with Gallbladder problems. Many are to be avoided, solely for their pain, not their detriment to the GB. Broccoli and Brussel Sprouts are to be avoided for a while, but are otherwise very good for the GB.

So does anyone know how many calories that many veggies would be?

And how can I make up for the missing calories? I'm already reaching my protein and fat. Does that mean it has to come from more veggies? That's already a lot (in my book) and it takes a long time to chew thoroughly and to be honest, they're not my favorite.

Thanks.

Perhaps a better way to address the question is...

How do YOU attain your calories with healthy foods? How much fruit do you eat? How many veggies? In weight if possible.

Also, please note your calorie needs, as I'm sure it's easier for smaller people. With protein and fat taken care of I'm just not sure where to get them without eatings tons more of veggies and fruit, or not ideal grains.

Thanks.

One word: fruit.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Fruit.

And have you looked into liver flushing?
[curezone.com]

Read some of the posts on here:
[curezone.com]

Yeah, I figured fruit would be a recommendation. I've added a couple more servings, but didn't want to overdo the sugar.

How much do 100% vegetable foodist eat? It's got to be pounds upon pounds.

Yes, I've looked into liver flushing. In fact I've done it a few times several years ago. However, I don't want to do that until I've been eating better for several months first, as well as taking cleansing/beneficial herbs for the liver and gallbladder. That way the cleansing will be more gentle and effective.

Are specific veggies higher in calories?

adfinder Wrote:
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> Are specific veggies higher in calories?

Go to [www.nutritiondata.com] and go to the "Nutrient Search Tool" option in the Tools menu.

Select "Vegetables and vegetable products" from the category menu, imedatly below where it says "...that are highest in:" select calories and at the bottom where it says "...based on levels per" select 100-gram serving.

Click "Show me!". You will have to sort through the list given as it includes lots of cooked vegetables but you should be able to come up with a list of the top veggies for calories from it.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

Adfinder, the nutritionist gave you mistaken information, based on unhealthy, certainly non-raw standards. Your angst is based on trying to hit those huge Standard and very sad numbers, unnecessarily and detrimentally.

Your body will make sense of things beautifully if you do go raw; but if you don't, it is crucial that you go vegan.

Also, no good will come of humongous amounts of fruit not in the context of rawdom.

If you decide to go raw, this forum will help you, but I suggest that if you are not ready for that (though I recommend it), you do go vegan immediately - resources for that include curezone.com and farmsanctuary.org and Farm Animal Reform Movement. You will only damage your own (and others') body by trying to follow those nutritionist recommendations. You may want to get a primer like Wolfe's _Sunfood Success System_ book to introduce you to various foods and proportions.

Thanks Funky Rob. Looks like beans and potatoes, high starch. Not sure if that's ideal.

Greenpeach, are you saying I don't need 2700 calories? I don't observe the idea of the food pyramid being healthy, but I thought the calories would be correct since they're based on energy needed. I would have thought the energy needed would be the same for a SAD eater or a healthy eater. I think I was told that my basal requirements alone were 1800 or so.

Do you have any idea how many I actually need? 6'2", 175lbs, 26, male. Hope to become active.

I haven't worried about it so much lately. For a while it seemed like I was low, but I haven't been fatigued or anything and I may even be regaining a lil weight that seemed like it was wasting away. Not as hard as I thought it was going to be.

"Also, no good will come of humongous amounts of fruit not in the context of rawdom."

All my fruit is always raw, and lately all my veggies too. I guess I got sick of steaming them.

I'd definitely need some books to go vegan and/or raw. The fruit and grain meals satisfy me, but raw veggies definitely don't.

No, I didn't mean to say "don't cook your fruit"; I meant that eating a lot of fruit when the rest of your diet includes grains and even animals will not increase your health - it'll just ferment and acidify things. That is my view of it - some may disagree. Some people feel healthier just by eating more fruit in a cooked omnivore context, but it's very chancey.

Yes, I was saying 2700 is way too high. Because cooking destroys nutrients AND requires so much work in digestion, one's needs are about half on a raw dietary, because one's nutrition counts more - more bang for the buck.

I'd not worry about it and switch over to raw if you are ready or at least vegan with raw. A good guide to going raw might be David Wolfe's _Sunfood Success System_ or Sapoty Brook (see ecoeating.com) - I don't agree myself with these people, but it will be very helpful for a beginner and will launch you quite strongly into your own "tweaking" explorations once you get the hang of it.

It basically means you throw out the 2700 idea, and approach the calorie/nutrition issue from a different planet. If you attempt to follow the 2700 plan, either as raw or as cooked, I predict you will come to grief and lose what energy and health you have.

See, on raw, things really do become more natural, so that instead of worrying about numbers, your body tells you. I don't say we don't need nutrients, but I do say that you (specifically) can solve your problems by going raw, because the entire landscape will change. I think you are missing information about many other kinds of raw foods you could be eating, and you don't talk about raw fats, which would probably satisfy you and are high in calories. Also, as you learn about raw, you'll get less attached to a feeling of needing to make it to a certain amount of calories every day.

I think books like _Raw Power_ specifically go into getting plenty of calories and fat in a raw vegan lifestyle and then having the option of using the energy in athleticism.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to pick up one of those books. I didn't really plan on going raw, but for the last week I pretty much have been.

So do you not eat grains at all?

my father and brother both had theirs removed. Mine always bothered me - even on a raw diet of 8 years UNTIL....drum roll....I started doing Doug Graham's 8-1-1 program. Completely pain free and feeling grander all the time....no deprivation, better and better energy. Get it his book. It works. It is the crowning creation of raw foods.

That's interesting to know Piano Gal.

Had you ever had any tests to determine your Gallbladder's health? Such as checking for stones or proper emptying? If so, what were the results?

Why did your brother and father have theirs removed? Stones or improper emptying?

Before you plan on going 80-10-10 for long term, check out some negative real-life experiences. Here's a link (bear in mind that the person who recommends eating animals has gone overboard in the opposite direction - that is the primary shame of 8-1-1, that people eventually get so sick on it that they think they need to eat animals to correct the damage done - it's a vicious trajectory! Check out curezone.com and its Gallbladder cleanse forum - I think you'll find it very useful.

About calories: shoot for 1600-2000.

[rawfoodinfo.com]

My Dad's gallbladder had dissolved into a mess of black jelly like goo when they finally opened him up. I haven't asked my brother what happened to him, but he did have it removed. Didn't know that till recently.

I haven't had mine X-rayed or anything. I stay far away from MD's unless I absolutely need to see them.It's just that when I've eaten too heavily of fats, it hurts. It hurt with the normal raw diet that most people eat. when I 8-1-1'd, it hasn't hurt at all. I eat 120 calories of overt fat a day - the equivalent of 1T oil. I eat loads of fruit and lovely greens. No pain.

Thanks Piano Gal.

Greenpeach, and anyone else, since many people have problems on 80-10-10 and other diets, are there any techniques for finding what diet is right for certain people? Such as tests?

I'm sure many people here don't subscribe to Dr. Mercola's system of health (as it involves animals. Though it does recommend minimum grains, and possibly raw foods. Not sure, never really looked into it), but has anyone had experience with the Metabolic typing he uses? It breaks people into Protein, Carb, or Mixed Type. Perhaps those who have problems with 8-1-1 are protein types and need more.

Are there any tests that raw foodists use to determine an ideal diet for people? That is of course, other than years of fine tuning.

greenpeach Wrote:
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> No, I didn't mean to say "don't cook your fruit";
> I meant that eating a lot of fruit when the rest
> of your diet includes grains and even animals will
> not increase your health - it'll just ferment and
> acidify things. That is my view of it - some may
> disagree. Some people feel healthier just by
> eating more fruit in a cooked omnivore context,
> but it's very chancey.

Not necessarily. Proper food combining and waiting long enough between cooked meals and fruit meals can help a person avoid the fermentation and putrefaction that happens when you pile fruit on top of fats and cooked foods. It takes a lot of practice and discipline to learn how to accomplish this, however. That being said, I agree...ANY diet excessively high in fat/grains/animals is going to cause a host of problems, not the least of which is the inability to properly uptake sugar -- even from raw fruit -- into the bloodstream.

I tried the metabolic typing diet for my type. I gained weight and my gallbladder hurt like hell. I was hoping it would work for me because at some level, I'd LOVE to eat (forgive me) lots of potroast. And I was, ostensibly, a high protein type. I even shelled out a bunch of bucks and worked with an expert in the field for six months. It didn't do anything for me.

Went back to raw. Then finally landed on low fat raw. That, as I said, was the silver bullet. FINALLY!

Very interesting.

So you were tested to be a Protein type by Metabolic typing, but now only consume about 10% of your calories from protein?

To give me a better understanding of what that means, what was your recommended intake of protein in grams based on your metabolic type and how many grams do you have now per day?

I also wonder if it's the low fat that helped your GB and not your low protein.

but advised that protein, fat, and certain green veggies were my best bet - not all green veggies. Fruits were not my friend, so I was told. I played with all kinds of amount of protein and fat. Although I felt sated, I was by no means radiantly healthy. Dark liver circles under the eyes, not good skin, pains down my left arm and tingly numbness in my left hand. Not a good heart indicator. Oh, it was fun to eat all that stuff, but I had to stop.

Eating all the fruit I want is key for me on 8-1-1. I know I'm not alone in that. I don't know how much protein I eat in a day, but here's a daily sample of my diet

11am green smoothie with two or a little more fruits, a big handful of spinach, a couple of kale leaves, some parsley.

Mid afternoon, something similar - green smmoothie. I'll often add celery to this one.

Dinner: Some fruit and often a big red cabbage salad with 1T flax oil, or 2T hemp seed, or some such thing. I may have more fruit as well.

Before bed, I'll likely have a piece of fruit.

If I didn't have a little fat daily, I would feel unbalanced. But that's me. so that's it. I hope this is somehow helpful.

Yes, it is helpful. Everything is helpful and everything is confusing. I wish there was just A WAY.

Do you add a variety of veggies to your cabbage salad, or is it just cabbage?

As a side question, what did all the raw foodists here do during the raw spinach scare?

I throw all kinds of things on it - matoes, celery, sprouts, anything. A a single T. of oil. Sometimes I use spinach instead of red cabbage. or romaine. Whatever I like. Personally, I don't believe that we need all that much variation in our diet to get our nutrients. But that's just me. And although the purist 8-1-1-ers don't believe in anything stimulating, I have a particular fondness for grunions (green onions) - so I toss them in too. But I don't eat salt or vinegar or such any more. Nor do purist 8-1-1ers thing much of oil of any kind. I still use flax oil or olive oil in those small amounts however. I'm fine with it. That's me. As well, I'll often cube a mango or big papaya in that salad.

i was gonna start a thread and ask how much protein SHOULD we eat.. then i used the search and found this thread.... LOL..



How much protein do you all eat? i was at an abusrd webssite ( [exercise.about.com] )

that said take your weight divided by 2.2 to get KG then multiply by .8 to get the amount of protein a sedentary person needs.. EEK it was so much....

on 80-10-10 there is NO way to get ovver 60 grams of protein LOL but 80-10-10 is what's right for me right now.... so i think i'll disreguard that above calculation... do what i feel is right...

ne who... i am getting about 20 grams a day and i don't eat much nuts.. maybe pine nuts every 2 or 3 days and an avocado a day...

ne one else have an opinion because i would love to hear what you do or what your advice is....

tiffntwins

Love and Light

Tiffntwins

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SWIM FREE FISHES!

im experimenting lately with a high sprout diet, lots of quinoa, sesame, buckwheat sprouts plus some ground flax, i'll be adding peanut, almond sunflower and pumpkin sprouts too, these are just 1 or two day sprouts so still have lots of protein. im probably getting about 90 grams of protein and maybe 3000+ calories daily. im a tall guy, still underweight at around 150lb, trying to put on some muscle.

hey adfinder,

couple things i thought of:

it's my opinion that possibly, you don't need as many calories as you believe. the quality of the food can cause you to require less or more calories. i am a small woman, so different from you, but i am an athlete and my caloric needs are supposedly 2300. i consume between 1600-2000 every day, at 80% raw foods, and i have gained more than 10 lbs of muscle. based simply on calories, i would have lost weight. it goes to show that a calorie is not just a calorie...it depends on the foods. eating mostly raw food also helps to maintain my muscle mass in a way.

also, don't worry about fruit sugars. they are not like bleached, refined sugar! Fruit is a billion times ahead of the fast foods, etc that you were eating before, so go for it. add a few bananas to your snacks!

hope it helps!