First of all, I'd like to say that I'm sorry if I've got some of the information wrong.

To all who concern about fruitarianism, problems we're dealing with are:

(1) Teeth.
Almost all people who tried fruitarian lifestyle faced this problem. Marksquire and Felix had/is having this problems. However, this doesn't happen to rawgosia, coconutcream, davidzanemason, The Fruiarian One and Bryan(Bryan may be an exception because he eats mostly organic and some organic veggies which are good source of minerals).

(2) Hair Loss.
This might be one of the detoxification symptoms which happens to davidzanemason(in early days), The Fruiarian One(not very sure about this) and Rawrrr!. It doesn't happen to Bryan and others. However, this two are the main problems.

(3) Aging.
This was discussed in previous topics and I don't think I need to write the details.

I'm opened to all opinions from everyone -Arugula, Bryan, davidzanemason etc.- based on scientific researches or your personal experiences.

Lastly, I want to say that I didn't intend to start any arguments here and all I need is help.

All the best,
Wong

I have not been raw for long. Only since about January. I have not experienced any of these problems yet. I've been told that I look great since going raw. How long until they start to manifest?

I was reading that if someone is getting all of their nutrients but not enough calories that it can cause problems in the long run.



KelBel

One thing to remember is that we are all different, we all handle/interpret situations in different ways and we all have different needs at different times when it comes to transitioning to a raw diet.

I don't think that this is just a Fruitarian thing at all, personaly I believe it all is linked to healing, detoxing and cleansing and that we also detox through every outlet there is even our gums so for some people detoxing through the mouth is an issue because then the mouth becomes a cess pit of acidity/toxins and thats why a lot of people have issues with their teeth rotting when they go raw and start detoxing what do they blame....FRUITS!

I never eat greens and I go seasons at a time on oranges/grapefruits and my mouth teeth are doing great, it's not about greens, I think it depends on how toxic you are and how much your detoxing at any given moment but that's just my opinion....I've tried the whole greens thing and I found it made things worse for me.

I think we all go through different stages and the beginning is the most intence.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2007 02:13PM by The Fruitarian One.

-I certainly agree with FruitarianOne. I've been all fruit for a number of years now.....and all-raw for quite a few years before that. My teeth problems evaporated (although earlier damage didn't miraculously heal) within a very short time when adopting this simpler lifestyle. I agree that each persons level of detox needs to be taken into account.

-My experience is that I have more/better hair, teeth, and am healthier and stronger than anyone I know. I think eating simpler CAN be a great tool - if someone willingly and lovingly chooses to gift themselves in such a manner.

-David Z. Mason

Thanks everyone. And I'm sorry that I was kinda harsh in the above post.

All the best,
Wong

I am in agreement with The Fruitarian One. These symptoms happen on any kind of detoxification program. RawFoodExplained writes about some common detoxification symptoms in "Some Unpleasant Symptoms And Their Causes".

Another good article on detoxification is written by Dave Klein in an article called "Detoxification".

When you say fruitarian, do you mean no greens or veggies at all?

For what it's worth, I once read a post by Dr. Graham on vegsource (I'm sorry, it was awhile back and I don't have a link) where he explained why we need greens... one may do fine on a completely fruitarian diet for a period of time (months...years...) depending on your previous lifestyle and hereditary influences from your family - but that we shouldn't be surprised to have hair and teeth (and other, bigger) problems somewhere down the road if we do not eat any tender leafy greens at all.

I'm totally paraphrasing here so I hope I'm not misunderstanding his point or taking him out of context and I know this isn't a scientific answer, but for whatever reason that has always resonated with me. I almost think it's too easy to say that it is ALL "detox".

Another factor I've noticed with those problems you mention - too much fat inhibits proper nutrient absorption. I've read so many posts on different forums dedicated to hair loss problems on raw, and when I look at their diets it's typically a high fat diet. I know this has little to do with your question about fruitarianism in particular but this is just what I've personally observed with the people who have hair loss and skin problems, typically.

I'd be truly interested to read an account of a 100% fruitarian who was long term (meaning, at least 15-20 years) who has zero problems with mineral deficiency (resulting in hair and teeth troubles, among other things). Are there any on this board?

Keep in mind that I'm not extremely experienced, so my opinion may not be worth much. I've been researching and studying raw for almost 3 years but in reality I fell on and off the bandwagon until the beginning of this year, since which I have been 100% on the 80/10/10 diet. I have honestly not had any weird detox symptoms to speak of. I'm trying to remember if I might have been tired for the first few days but if I was, it wasn't enough to affect me much. My husband slept a lot more for the first 3 days and that's the only detox he's experienced also.

Sarah
[goingbananasblog.com]

"Almost all people who tried fruitarian lifestyle faced this problem."

Not true. This should be "Some people who tried fruitarian lifestyle faced this problem." One of possible causes - eating unripe fruit. Do that and teeth problems guaranteed.

Also, could you define fruitarian? Am I really one? Is tahini a fruit? Are greens a fruit? Or, do you mean by fruitarian some who eats lots of fruit?

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

i feel like crap whenever i eat too many sweet fruits and not enough fat and protein. it makes me feel weak and anxious. but i am just one person. i do best with lots of greens nuts and raw dairy, plus my sweet fruits.

Gosia,

My definition of fruitarian is one who eats only sweet fruits and doesn't eat veggies at all. I'm not using botanical definition of fruits because it can make bananas turn out to be herbs. BTW, Gosia, did you experience any of the symptoms mention?

Actually, I was expecting more people who have tried fruitarian lifestyle to post under this topic. I really qppreciate you all's comments.

All the best,
Wong

There's so much more to Fruitarianism than just the "sweet fruits" infact thats where a lot of people make the biggest mistake, there's a whole spectum of fruits to choose from, sweet and non-sweet, you can't dictate what you need, that's your bodies job now, your job is to listen to it, infact there's so much more to Fruitarianism than just the food, there's exercise and mental fitness too, which is just as important as the food you eat!

Also eating veggies does not make you any less of a Fruitarian, you just do what works for your body at any given moment, I see too many people trying so hard to be "Fruitarian" than actually listening to their bodies and given it what it needs.

Let go and submit to your body.

F1





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2007 01:13PM by The Fruitarian One.

I used to eat alot of citrus fruits, but not anymore. I've been eating more greens even though I'm not high raw anymore. I've added green smoothies and they are helping me with various problems. One they are full of fiber and they are pretty much broken down before ingesting them so they are quick colon cleansing agents, my stomach has gone down alot, I can fit into smaller pants I haden't been able to for this whole year.

I have more energy because of the greens, and I think for women especially they help to replace iron and build healthy blood.

I still love watermelon, but the season is short. I have added more berries and like them in my green smoothies. I eat much more tropical fruits for some reason.

Before going raw 4 years ago, my hair was thining on top..and it was scary, but with the better nutrition came thicker hair. If people start to lose their hair when they go raw or transition, I think there are more than 1 reason that could happen. Detox, cleansing, losing weak hair and replacing it with stronger hair, could be something to do with hormones, thyroid, etc. If one could afford it, you might get a comprehensive blood test done before going raw, then doing another as you go along on raw and transistioning.

Teeth, well my teeth were terrible before I began raw, so being raw only made me want to have the best teeth possible. If you can't afford the whole thing at one time with dentist, go in increments and get the worse taken care of. Infections in the mouth and gums, roots are not healthy. They take care of infections first now, then you have options on what to do for your teeth. If you do nothing, at least get a water pik and add some hydrogen peroxide in the water and cleanse nightly before bedtime. If some people's teeth can't repair themselves, I'm sure it's natural for them to start breaking off and falling out. What else are they going to do at that stage?

Aging, well this one may be subjective. IMO I have seen raw fooders that are so thin, all they look to be are bones and skin, and look aged beyond their years. Some fat under the skin, some muscle tone is enhancing to a body. I think that natural hair, no makeup can look very attractive, if your hair is taken care of meaning clean scalp, brushed to glistening sheen and your skin is glowing which is hard to do if there's a bunch of dead skin cells begging to be cleaned or brushed off. That's the outside appearance, I couldn't tell you anything about how healthy their insides are. But I figure if they think they are eating well, not using chemicles on hair and skin, they may figure they are healthy inside..and I think that is deluding oneself. Getting periodic check ups can help a person to know what they need to work on, enhance, change for the better, etc.

I don't get why a person thinks that being natural has to mean letting yourself go. As I said, IMO. The other thing is that the diversity of attraction to certain looks in people is subjective.

Love,
Prism

May I ask why you stoped eating citrus? Im just wondering because I love grapefruits and Oranges( I live in Florida ) and I still take in a suffecient amount of greens, but im not big on banannas like so many other fruitarian's are( maybe it will come with time!). I guess im just curious why you stoped eating Citrus( if you were expierencing adverse effects or you just grew tired of the taste) because im just like F1, I can go days on lovely Grapefruits!

Yeah I go the whole winter on OJ the in spring my body wants grapefruits....

There is a tendency to take things to the extreme when they are very simple thru observation. Just watch a small rodent eating in the wild. They have a very diversified diet, they eat leaves, flowers, tree roots and yet they have a very small body.
Now we humans at 200-300 pounds going the fruitarian route wants to feed on bananas, grapes and the like. It will work as long as your reserve on nutrients is not depleted.

There is tendency to take things to the extreme when they are very simple thru observation. Just watch a small rodent eating in the wild. They have a very diversified diet, they eat leaves, flowers, tree roots and yet they have a very small body.
Now we humans at 200-300 pounds going the fruitarian route wants to feed on bananas, grapes and the like. It will work as long as your reserve on nutrients is not depleted.

-I concur. I usually feast on Orange Juice for the entire citrus season (November - June here in Central Florida). I feel like a million bucks!

-David Z. Mason

Hehe, this title gave me a chuckle. From this and other threads I've yet to see people agree on what a fruitarian is, yet alone settling the controversy that seems to come with it.

My definition of a fruitarian always works... "A person who believes everything they eat is a fruit." ;-)

Cheers,
Ian.

blue_sky, by your definition, I am not a fruitarian. I might turn into one, one day, who knows. I do eat non-sweet fruit (but not recently), and greens (including recently), for example. I do not make a particular effort to eat some type of foods and not the other for some intelectual arguments. I eat foods that I love. My diet is the result of a spontaneous transition. I love fruit, so I eat it! I eat foods that I love and foods that make me feel tops.

No teeth problems on my part, only improvements (I had gum problems before raw). No hair problems either (but I did experience some hair loss when I was high-fat raw, and then it got better as I ate more and more fruit). As far as aging, I am not aging as fast as I would on cooked, that's for sure. I do hear that I look younger than my age. My kids though think that I am ancient ha ha.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Aging/longevity
Morris Krok and Ross Horne both died from cancer
TC Fry and Johnny Lovewisdom had numerous health problems
All died in their 70's.
All promoted high fruit diets.

Jack Linnane ( still alive and well into 90's )
Eric Storm ( 104 at death )
Harry Shoerats ( 112 at death and vegan )
Donald Watson ( 95 at death, vegan for 60 years )
None of these ate a high fruit diet ( but they did eat some fruit ).
All ate some cooked food.
Linnane and Storm ate some animal products.

Can anyone name any long term high fruit eaters ( i.e. at least 20 years ) that lived into their 90's without teeth problems ?

Teeth problems, my experience
- .5 cup of raw goats milk works better than .5 kg of raw green vegies
- soaked almonds and greens don't cause teeth problems
fruit does cause teeth problems
some other nuts like walnuts cause teeth problems

Thank you lettuce for the evidence or lack of evidence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2007 01:23AM by djatchi.

there are so many factors that effect so many people i dont think you can possibly say any one way of eating is good or bad or better or worse for any one person or another ...what works for me isnt gonna work for your or vice versa

if you are finding your teeth weakend its possible you are predespositioned to having weak teeth .. some people are genitically even withen the same family ...so eat accordingly to whatever works for you .. if that means less fruit and more goats milk then great .. but some people dont need that .. were not all the same ,,, or brush better or differently or not at all .. i have an east indian vegan high fruit eater friend who hasnt brushed her teeth in years ... her breath is not bad and her teeth are radiant and strong looking and she just rinses her mouth with water in the mornings ..

me .. i have abnormaly fast plaque buildup even i was 100% raw i assueme would have to see a dentist 4 times a year to clean my teeth even though i brush several times a day and floss all the time .. im just genitically predespostioned to a excessive plaque build up .. im about 75% raw now and still have the same problem .. my teeth are weaker

I've always been a fruit basher. Mainly because I thrive on greens and I am allergic to citrus.

I apologize to all the fruit eaters for my past prejudice.

I believe we all have a tendency to promote what works for us because that's what we believe will work for everyone. Not true.

I do see now that our internal bodies do not all operate the same from what we ingest. Yes, there are people who thrive better on greens, just as there are people who thrive better on fruit.

Why is this though. I mean, our bodies are all made the same way. We all have the same internal organs which operate the same way.

I believe it might be a combination of things.
The way we train our bodies over the years in what we feed it.
The difference in outside chemicals our bodies are exposed to.
What we 'believe', yes, our minds are very powerful!!!
What diseases are lurking inside different people.

All these differences and more change how our bodies opperate compared to the next person.

So from now on, I guess I am content to believe that some people thrive on fruit and others thrive on greens.
However, I think we all believe that no one thrives on meat.
Let that be our common ground.

Instead of bashing the fruit eaters, lets offer ways to help some that prefer to eat that way who may be having problems. Just the way we help all the others who come to the raw lifestyle who are having problems.

Come on Raw People!!! Unite!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Wheatgrass, it does a body good!!!

The humans are directly derived from fruit eating frugivorous primates. I see no problems with fruit eating. Only benefits.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Bashing or not, the main issue is the lack of scientific evidence that a high fruit diet work in the long run.

Scientific evidence is that humans are derived for frugivorous primates - frugivorous diet is the standard human diet, per that evidence.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Oh when will this crap ever end!!!

rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scientific evidence is that humans are derived for
> frugivorous primates - frugivorous diet is the
> standard human diet, per that evidence.
>
> Gosia


hi gosia,


recently i asked if anyone here has been tested for b12 and got no responses.

have you been tested or do you take a supplement?

as it has been stated here, there have been fruitarians that got cancer, morris k, ross h, and now rene beresford. b12 deficiency is correlated with the development of cancer.

here is a quote from a b12 researcher:

"Having worked in the field for about 30 years I do see some people with B12 deficiency that seem to be doing OK. Then bam they have neurological disease and it can be irreversible so why take a chance with simply supplementing your diet with a B12 tablet which will correct the danger and eventual problem. ... 80-90 % of people will develop neurological disease if not treated. It is my opinion that you see a lot more cognitive decline in seniors with B12 deficiency than then younger vegan because younger people have more back up systems and more brain cells. Since you have 100 billion neurons it is no big problem to lose a million each day from B12 deficiency but as you get older you are happy to have a many as you can keep.
Another danger you should be aware of is that the government has fortified the food supply to with folate to protect from spinal bifida or neural tube defect in newborns since the damage is done before the women knows she is expecting. However, a new study which just confirms what the old doc knew is that folate causes increased cognitive decline in those with B12 deficiency. The old doc used to see 'explosive neurological disease' from taking high amount of folate in people with B12 deficiency. I think you will start to see more of that . The government intervened to help one person but then puts 1000 or more at great risk. and it is a shame they don't even tell the public are at risk.
I will be happy to send you some info including a paper done on people on a raw food diet. Thanks for saying hello and I hope I didn't come down too hard but it is no fun getting a call from a grandfather telling you that the child you identified with high uMMA two years ago now has a permanent disability. He is now a believer and wanted to test the whole family! All because his vegan parents didn't supplement their diet as with B12. "

I have not received the raw fooder study yet.

i'm uncertain about this issue myself...

some more crap for you, FO.

rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scientific evidence is that humans are derived for
> frugivorous primates - frugivorous diet is the
> standard human diet, per that evidence.
>
> Gosia

What then happens in the course of human evolution to leave a working frugivourous diet for hutting and meat eating?

This has nothing to do with evolution in the rigorous sense of it. For example, eating at MacDonals does not mean that we evolved to eat like that. Eating at MacDonalds mean that in spite of our biology, we choose to eat foods that are biologicaly inappropriate to us.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2007 02:18AM by rawgosia.