Hi,

This is a short survey for those who have been raw for at least one year. The survey is designed to test a hypothesis I have about the relationship between avocados and gum recession.

If you wish to respond privately rather than in this thread, please email your answers to jayster@rawfoods.com. If you have been raw for less than 1 year and would still like to participate, please feel free.

Thank you.


Quick Raw Foodist Survey
------------------------

1) How long have you been raw?

2) What is your approximate percentage raw?

3) Do you eat avocados on a daily basis? If so, how many per day?

4) Have you experienced gum recession while raw? If so, is it mild, moderate, or extreme?

5) Have you had more, less, or about the same frequency of cavities since becoming raw than you did prior to raw? Have the cavities since becoming raw been focused more on the top or bottom or your mouth, or about equal?

6) Would you describe your sweet fruit consumption as low, medium, or high?

--------------

Thanks again!


Full Hypothesis:

As avocados contain a sugar that inhibits the production of insulin, my hypothesis is that the hindrance of sugar metabolism in a high-avocado diet may keep sugar levels high in the saliva, leading to gum recession and other dental issues.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2007 05:56AM by learningtofly.

What do you believe leads to gum recession? Is it the bacteria that feeds off of sugar?

I'm so uncertain with many of my answers that my answers may not be worth much.

1) How long have you been raw? 12 years or so.
But never 100%.

2) What is your approximate percentage raw?
Roughly 70%.

3) Do you eat avocados on a daily basis? If so, how many per day?
Very rarely.

4) Have you experienced gum recession while raw? If so, is it mild, moderate, or extreme?
My guess is it's probably been pretty extreme. I've been really neglectful of oral health.

5) Have you had more, less, or about the same frequency of cavities since becoming raw than you did prior to raw?
My guess is more.
Have the cavities since becoming raw been focused more on the top or bottom or your mouth, or about equal?
Again, my guess is about equal.

6) Would you describe your sweet fruit consumption as low, medium, or high?
High. Love it.

Hope this is useful for you.
Troy.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

So, would avocados be considered a negative thing to include in the diet of someone who is insulin resistant?

I'm just wondering since I eat at least one avocado a day and I'm insulin resistant.

Good luck with your study! I'd love to hear the results!

Love,

Gypsy

Hi GypsyArdor

Re:

"I'm just wondering since I eat at least one avocado a day and I'm insulin resistant. "

-----

according to 8-1-1, you are over eating fat, and that is the cause of
"insulin resistance"--basicly fat interferes with sugar metabolism;
the fruit sugar is not the problem.
Grahm's book explains in detail.
When (time of day) you eat fatty foods, & in combination with what is also important.
Half an avacado is all that is recommended per day.
and every 3 days no overt fat.

if interested in more detail
see my recent posts under the heading

On the topic of "low-fat.."

As avocados contain a sugar that inhibits the production of insulin, my hypothesis is that the hindrance of sugar metabolism in a high-avocado diet may keep sugar levels high in the saliva, leading to gum recession and other dental issues.


can you show me a link that shows a study that shows that avocados contain a sugar that inhibits the production of insulin? just curious thanks i eat tons of avocados ...and i dont have any evidence of gum recession..my teeth are weak but they have been that way since i was born...i havent seen any negative changes in my teeth since eating tons of avocados

I would recommend people not answering surveys concerning raw vegans where personal information about your raw lifestyle is revealed. There is a man named Chase Masters who conducts these kinds of surveys, and publishes the results on the internet to scare away raw vegans. Mark Squire, a user on this forum, responded to one of Chase's surveys, and his email messages were posted on the internet without Mark's permission, even after Mark asked Chase to not publish his emails. Unless you know the person conducting the survey, and unless you get a non-disclosure agreement from the person conducting the survey, you may be publishing your private information out to the entire internet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2007 04:29AM by Bryan.

TroySantos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you believe leads to gum recession? Is it
> the bacteria that feeds off of sugar?

Yes, my hypothesis was/is that the raised salivary sugar levels would feed the bacteria, which then leave acid behind.

Thanks for your answers TroySantos. You seem to have experienced recession WITHOUT avocados, which is interesting.


GypsyArdor wrote:

<So, would avocados be considered a negative thing to include in the diet of someone who is insulin resistant?
I'm just wondering since I eat at least one avocado a day and I'm insulin resistant.>

Hi GypsyArdor,

It's possible, however 1/2 an avocado does not sound like alot to me. Here are 2 pages which talk about the effect of the avocado sugar mannoheptulose:

[www.glycoteam.com]
[www.schizodiet.com]


Jgunn wrote:

<can you show me a link that shows a study that shows that avocados contain a sugar that inhibits the production of insulin? just curious thanks i eat tons of avocados ...and i dont have any evidence of gum recession..my teeth are weak but they have been that way since i was born...i havent seen any negative changes in my teeth since eating tons of avocados>

The above two links discuss the relevant avocado sugar. Thanks Jgunn for your input as your experience seems to run contrary to my hypothesis. May I ask how long you have been raw and how long you've been eating tons of avocados? Thank you.



Bryan wrote:

<I would recommend people not answering surveys concerning raw vegans where personal information about your raw lifestyle is revealed. There is a man named Chase Masters who conducts these kinds of surveys, and publishes the results on the internet to scare away raw vegans. Mark Squire, a user on this forum, responded to one of Chase's surveys, and his email messages were posted on the internet without Mark's permission, even after Mark asked Chase to not publish his emails. Unless you know the person conducting the survey, and unless you get a non-disclosure agreement from the person conducting the survey, you may be publishing your private information out to the entire internet.>

Interesting take Bryan, and thanks for the vote of no confidence. I am certainly not Chase Masters, just trying to get to the bottom of why SOME raw foodists have dental issues (yes, some do), and whether a hunch of mine is either right or wrong.

If I had solicited positive health experiences from long-time raw foodists, would you have also written, "I would recommend people not answering surveys concerning raw vegans where personal information about your raw lifestyle is revealed"?



Thank you to those willing to share in this thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2007 04:33PM by learningtofly.

Please promise that you will keep this information confidential and not abuse the folks who help you out like Chase did with Mark Squire. Also, given that we don't even know your first name, how can anyone be sure that your promise will be kept? If you want personal information from people, first make yourself vulnerable by sharing with us who you really are. If you are unwilling to do this, why should anyone be willing to part with personal information to you?

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please promise that you will keep this information
> confidential and not abuse the folks who help you
> out like Chase did with Mark Squire.

First of all, I have received no responses by email, so there is nothing to keep confidential. Secondly, I am familiar with Chase Masters on the NFL board and I don't regard him as a trustworthy person -- he may be the exception rather than the rule.

> Also, given
> that we don't even know your first name, how can
> anyone be sure that your promise will be kept?

I think people can make that judgment for themselves by evaluating the sincerity of my post(s).

> If you want personal information from people, first
> make yourself vulnerable by sharing with us who
> you really are. If you are unwilling to do this,
> why should anyone be willing to part with personal
> information to you?

Fair enough. In the past my username incorporated my first name, however I got tired of it and so changed it to the current one. For the record, I've been reading and posting on this board since approx. 1998, when Dave Klein was moderator.

In retrospect, it probably would have been better to simply post a couple of informal questions, rather than a survey.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2007 05:42PM by learningtofly.

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are unwilling to do this,
> why should anyone be willing to part with personal
> information to you?

One more point: I didn't ask that people share their real names or identities with me, so I don't see this as hypocrisy. Anonymous responses were welcome.

learningtofly,

While it sounds like you are in agreement with some of the stuff I mentioned, you have neither offered any of your own personal information (like name/identity) nor have you promised to keep this information confidential. If you are asking for private emails, please give the senders some assurance that their confidentiality will be respected (and their email will not be given out/sold), rather than having us trust you based on our ability to "make that judgment for themselves by evaluating the sincerity of my post".

learningtofly has been posting here since I've been a member and that's been 4 years. I don't think he's got any hidden agenda with his survey.

On the other hand, that is useful info Bryan gave, to be careful what you post online on any website.

Love,
Prism

Quick Raw Foodist Survey
------------------------

1) How long have you been raw?

5 yeARS

2) What is your approximate percentage raw?
100% fruitarian

3) Do you eat avocados on a daily basis? If so, how many per day?

Yes, maybe 4 big florida ones or none at all for weeks

4) Have you experienced gum recession while raw? If so, is it mild, moderate, or extreme?

only when I used to eat nuts, I do not anymore

5) Have you had more, less, or about the same frequency of cavities since becoming raw than you did prior to raw? Have the cavities since becoming raw been focused more on the top or bottom or your mouth, or about equal?

I have had cavities heal completely and I have had teeth, in the back that dentists root canaled, fall out. I had implants and they fell out too .I like it better. I alwayS felt they were fake and MAYBE not that good for you, for real. My teeth are whiter and my wisdom teeth are coming in.

6) Would you describe your sweet fruit consumption as low, medium, or high?


I am 100% fruitarian, mostly sweet, over a year, raw vegan 5 I have sslipped up a few times but we all are not perfect





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2007 05:56PM by coconutcream.

Thanks Bryan for the warning. I don't see what harm could come from me posting the information I did but I suppose you know what you're talking about.

learningtofly are you willing to reveal your name to us? I don't know who you are. Bryan mentioned that you're not giving your name, and you still haven't. Of course even if you do tell us your name, I won't know if you're telling the truth or not. Please don't feel like I'm attacking you. I'm just being straightforward yet trying to not come across harsh.

I guess I won't do this again unless I am confident that there's no risk even that I'm unaware of.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

i agree with prism
i've been here for a coupla years too
though not as long as learningtofly
and it seems like he has his head pretty darn right squarely on his shoulders
from the posts that i've read of his
if his posts aren't sincere, then i don't know what iz..

i've read his posts and they are always well thought out




i think that this whole little debacle could have probably been avoided if he had not written the word

"survey"

cuz his question is pretty normal

its not any different from any of the other posts that i have read here that ask one question after another

and people really are free to e mail each other
we are adults ( last time i checked i wuz

What happened with Chase and Mark squire

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> learningtofly,
>
> While it sounds like you are in agreement with
> some of the stuff I mentioned, you have neither
> offered any of your own personal information (like
> name/identity) nor have you promised to keep this
> information confidential.

True, although I was never under any obligation to do so. I am a private person and do not like to give out personal information on the internet.

> If you are asking for
> private emails, please give the senders some
> assurance that their confidentiality will be
> respected (and their email will not be given
> out/sold), rather than having us trust you based
> on our ability to "make that judgment for
> themselves by evaluating the sincerity of my
> post".

I meant for this to be an informal survey. I have no hidden agenda so it didn't occur to me that I had to reassure people that I would not misuse their information.

"We can't go on together
With suspicious minds
And we can't build our dreams
On suspicious minds"
-Mark James

TroySantos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course even if you do tell us your
> name, I won't know if you're telling the truth or
> not. Please don't feel like I'm attacking you. I'm
> just being straightforward yet trying to not come
> across harsh.

This is hilarious. "Telling the truth or not?" About what?

If you'd like to know my first name, just look at the email address I gave. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

Wow, there is ALOT of paranoia here.

"We can't go on together
With suspicious minds
And we can't build our dreams
On suspicious minds"
-Mark James

Chase is constantly surveying raw vegans to find further his "research" of why raw vegan and fruitarian is a harmful diet. He tried raw vegan for a while, but it didn't work for him. One of his surveys was asking if any people had trouble with Doug Graham's 80/10/10 diet. Mark had troubles and responded, and Chase included Mark's response with many others and sent these emails to various raw food forums all over the internet.

When Mark saw this, he asked Chase to quit doing this. Also, because Mark had done some healing in the mean time, and his body began to respond favorably to Doug's diet, even to the point that Mark is the first testimonial in Doug's new book. However, even though he asked Chase to not include his email, Chase persisted. Perhaps at some point Chase removed Mark's email. Here is the full thead if you want to plow through the verbiage. Here is another typical Chase survey.

Thanks coconutcream for your answers.

Thank you Prism and la_veronique for your support.

Like I said before and la_veronique also mentioned, I would have been better off just asking a couple of informal questions rather than posting a "survey." But Jose posted a survey on the OT board so I was inspired to try one too.

I guess that didn't work out too well.

"We can't go on together
With suspicious minds
And we can't build our dreams
On suspicious minds"
-Mark James

Hi ltf,

I've been raw about four years now.

Off and on around 80%, sometimes more, sometimes less.

You know I don't believe in eating alot of fruit, but I do love avocados and although I don't eat them everyday, I do eat many every week.

The main reason I got into the raw life was because of my teeth. I had just spent $1800 on one tooth and then they wanted to do more! That's when I was done with dentists for good and found the living-foods site and then my heroine, Anne Wigmore.

I am big on the wheatgrass every morning and night in the mouth for a good 5 minutes to pull those toxins from my gums.

I also am big on swishing water around in my mouth a few times after I eat anything or drink any juice of any kind! I believe the water helps to rinse off that lingering sugar or anything else that might be left behind in my teeth.

Oh yes, I haven't had any problems with my teeth in these four years!!!
In fact, the one tooth where they worked on, the material they used fell away and my own partial tooth is getting bigger and stronger. It's more solid at the root. I am thinking the way it's going, it's either pushing the old tooth out or just growing it better from the bottom up.

I also am a firm believer in flossing!!!!!!!!
And I use that Tom's organic toothpaste.

I hope this helps!

Wheatgrass, it does a body good!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2007 07:20PM by teloking57.

Since Bryan brought distrust into this thread, I now feel like I need to reassure those who responded.

I have been raw for 10 years, and I am simply seeking an answer as to why SOME long-term raw foodists have dental issues. This is not meant to scare people away from raw, as 100% raw saved my life and is in fact the answer to many of the world's problems (believe it or not).

So I just wanted to find out if the ability of avocados to suppress insulin response was POSSIBLY an underlying variable in some raw foodists' dental issues. And that's the only reason why I asked these questions, to prove or disprove my personal hypothesis (which was stated). No hidden agenda, no ulterior motives, no guile.

Thanks.

Also, if anyone still wants to answer the questions, please do so in this thread. I'd rather everything be out in the open.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2007 07:15PM by learningtofly.

BTW Bryan, I have alot of respect for you. I just think you were projecting Chase Masters onto me.

i've beeen 80-100% raw for well over 15-20 years.
80% during winter. 100% otherwise.

im actually not drawn to avocado's or
other overt fats for that matter, i have maybe eaten
20 in my life. (im 51)

my sweet tooth was got me into the fruity lifestyle
long before raw, and i have always eaten a large amount
of very sweet fruits, dried figs and sticky dates.
i bet i've eaten 20,000 figs in my life.

i have mild gum recession and have had my share of
cavities over the years. but my main surprise is that
i now have bruxism at night. this is a mystery
to me, since see myself as rather mellow and layback,
and i def wouldn't connect it to fruit or avacado.
however it may be an unexpected symptom of my cerebral palsy.
at any rate, i believe it (and gum recession) can be reversed.

ok okok.I have my first cavity in years right now. my teeth hurt and my gums aren't that great either. I have had STELLAR teeth and gums my whole life(thanks ma and pa)til now and I have been 80% raw scince the end of Nov. '06.

I probobly eat 3 avocados a week.
I eat a high amount of sweet fruits.
I have a dentist appt. on Wed. get back to you then about the gum recesion.

yeah let us know what you find out. thanks.

IS THERE A RAW TOOTHPASTE OUT THERE???(haha) wait..... is there?

learningtofly, no I'm not paranoid. Not even very concerned. Sorry I didn't say so in my previous post.

I became concerned, and I'm the only one who responded that mentioned any concern, because of what Bryan said. I believe that he acted on good faith. There's been an incident, right? Yeah, Jose did post a survey yet Bryan didn't raise any concern about it.

Please don't be upset about all this.

Forget it. Never mind. Let it go. Let it fly! :-)



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

to clarify: i meant to add that i believe
the mild gum recession and cavities i've had
are due to the bruxism.

i feel my diet of high fruit and green leafs
are to credit for my teeth not being in worse
condition. . .and the primary factor in healing.

yes I understand. once someone took photos of me and all over the internet plastered them with my real name and everything. Took me a week to have him take them down, really reluctant. I wouldnt have minded but he was such a bad photographer..I looked terrible in them and he tried to edit them really poorly too,, I understand

Alice, there are so many alternatives to toothpastes.
[gerardjudd.com] Look at Ref # 5. If you are interested but don't want to taste soap, do a Google search for "ToothSoap. And any ol bar soap seems like a horrific idea.

And here are some other links you might find useful.
[www.paradisenow.net]
[mizar5.com]

Another alternative dentist is Hal Huggins. I don't have any of his links but a search on Google will bring up things fast. He's interesting but a bit hard for me to believe.

Hope your teeth and gums are well. But if they're not, at least realize that things could always be worse! I had 18 cavities and 12 amalgams before I started having the cavities drilled and the amalgams replaced. I have 6 cavities that I won't have drilled and filled. I'm having 12 done because 18 cavities is a bit overwhelming for me. I might be able to tackle six cavities on my own, but feel that 18 is too much weight on my mind. Who knows if the overall benefit of having all this work done is greater than the overall damage being done in other ways. Just the chemicals that dentists use is enough to scare the daylights out of ya. Then listening to what Hal Huggins says, if it's all true what he says, well, I don't know what the best solutions are according to him. I haven't read that much of what he has to say.



This way is not compatible with Zen practice. This way IS Zen practice. - Dr. Doug Graham

Nothing whatsoever should be attached to. - Buddha

Hi TroySantos

"and the amalgams replaced." Did that help? How? I've heard it's expensive and possibly dangerous...and that for some it doesn't make a difference.


I use uncle harry's tooth powder
[www.uncleharrys.com]

and some tooth paste from an indian grocery store