I have had the hugest graving for eating bread and grains for two days and today I finally couldn't take it anymore and bought some sprouted bread and ate it with some lettuce and greens.

This is the first "cooked" thing I have eaten in weeks. I am trying to go with listening to my body and after trying to block out the messages for two days I finally just gave in. I've also had a detox headache for two days and curiously enough it was gone after I ate the bread..

I wonder if bread is hard to digest in general? Anybody else graving grains and what do you do about it? Where can I find raw bread that tastes somewhat like bread?

From what I understand grains like bread give us a boost of serotonin, so I think certain things that give us that kind of boost are the things hardest to give up. Grains, pastas, chips, and then there's milk, and of course there's chocolate which always does it for me.

Love,
Prism

sure, adding dense or cooked food will slow-->stop your detox

its good to keep things comfortable, so you certainly made a worthy choice.

craving grains could be simply a lack of carbs(fruits) but most likely it has an emotional/habitual component.

If you are transitoning I would stick with the sprouted breads. if not more digestable (don't personally think grains are this), they would be easier on the stomach then dehydrated 'raw' 'breads'. probably win the taste test also I assume.

personaly I think a big secret is that eating cooked isn't an off switch while 'anything raw' is a green light for detox. its all a matter of speed

I would suggest sprouted non-glutenous breads. comfortably givng up gluten permanently is a good milestone towards sucess in my experience.

if none of this interests you. I believe the frozen mana bread some stores have is 'raw'

Good to go slow...I just wanted to add that as Anaken says, some of the manna breads are raw, but are nonetheless VERY dense and concentrated. Even raw, they mess with me pretty strongly, as my system is fairly clean now.

Thanks for the responses. This is what I suspected also. I eat tons of fruit so I don't think it's lack of carbs.. Maybe just a comfort thing. I have always loved bread. I am definitely gonna try the raw bread when I find it.

The manna bread is not raw. Their website is www.naturespath.com. You can go there and contact them directly with a question, or you can send an email to: consumer_services@naturespath.com. Or you can call them at 1-888-808-9505. They've been contacted many times about this, and they have a standard reply saying that no, they are not a raw food product.

I very much enjoy eating freshly sprouted wheat in its natural unmashed, undehydrated state. IMO it tastes much better than bread. I eat it a little at a time with salads and it's especially good added to greens and avocado in nori rolls. It's also delicious with papaya and avocado. It has less gluten, less starch, and less fat in its sprouted form.

Another raw alternative to bread, pasta, cereal, etc. is raw wheat germ. Not as fresh and whole as sprouted wheat, but it's advantage is that you don't have to wait till it sprouts before you can eat it. Again, it has much less gluten, little to no starch, but it does contain fat. It's delicious in salads, as long as it's fresh (prepackaged, labeled raw, and refrigerated is best).

Gluten in it's raw and sprouted form is not necessarily bad for people who are not gluten sensitive.

People who are gluten sensitive who crave grain, might try some of the other sprouted grains like sprouted rye, sprouted millet, sprouted buckwheat, and/or sprouted kamut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2007 07:24AM by suncloud.

There are a few raw restaurants who sell 100% raw bread that tastes really "bready" made from sprouted kamut or rye or buckwheat. Rawvolution by Matt Amsden in California sells raw bread at his restaurant and he also ships raw food. Quintessence Restaurant in NYC also makes good raw bread too and they do mail order as well.
You may want to try calling these places and see if you can get them to ship you a batch of bread so you can get your jones fixed. I'm sure if you pay, they will gladly ship.

If you are Ok with a cracker crispy type of bread, not the soft kind, Glaser Farms in Florida (they put out a mail order catalogue (305)-238-7747 ) makes packages of Raw Essene cracker flats that they call "bread" made from sprouted wheat and other grains. They are very tasty, 100% raw and good if you need the grain energy and taste.

Glaser Farms also does make a soft bread, it's an adorable and tasty mini loaf of soft bread called "California Bread" made from sprouted whole wheat and fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds, spices.

Hope this helps.

peace
love
Bikini

Two sources of dietary protein (i.e., dairy products and grain) have been associated with adverse reactions not all of which involve allergen-specific immune response as measured by typical diagnostic techniques (e.g., Burks, Williams, Casteel, et al., 1990; Rasanen, Lehto, & Reunala, 1992). Some of the peptides associated with digestion of dietary proteins (e.g., milk, wheat) are in the opioid family (e.g., Fukudome & Yoshikawa, 1992; Ziodrou, Streaty, & Klee, 1979) and have psychoactive properties that can affect cognition and the release of neurotransmitters (Kampa, Loukas, Tsapis & Castanas, 2001). Opioids alter behavior because of their ability to bind to endorphin and enkephalin receptors in the brain. Endorphins and enkephalins are endogenous opioid-peptide neurotransmitters found in various parts of the brain and also produced by the pituitary gland. They are involved in the reduction of pain as well as in pleasure and reward (because they release dopamine). Animal research indicates that endogenous opioids also play a role in regulating both pre- and post-natal neural development (McLaughlin, Tobias, Lang, & Zagon, 1997; Zagon & McLaughlin, 1991). Endogenous opioids are also important in memory, learning, and behavior (e.g., Vaccarino & Kastin, 2001). Changes in endogenous opioid activity (e.g., by using opioid blockers) can induce food cravings and thus food intake (Mercer & Holder, 1997). Exorphins, such as opioids generated from digestion, attach to the same receptors as the endogenous opioids and can inhibit the breakdown of endogenous peptides and change the level of endogenous opioids (e.g., Mercer & Holder, 1997). Some suggest it is the opioid exorphins that are involved in the addictive behavior of some to the very foods that cause them problems (e.g., Brostoff, 1990). Therefore, concern about problems with digestion of dietary proteins involves allergic type reactions as well as the possible toxic effect of exorphins on behavior and learning.

Bikini: Thanks for the great tips! I love Rawvolution, their foods look amazing. I have to look into glaser farms also.

Fresh: That research is very interesting and makes sense.

So far I am feeling pretty good even after eating the sprouted bread. Of course I would rather eat raw bread instead. I live very remotely so there is no whole foods or any special stores around. I may have to just save up and order some online. The shipping charges can sometimes be astronomical..

Bread was one of the hardest things for me to give up during my raw transition. The opioids in bread make it very addictive, and my mind was always thinking about wanting bread. The desire will go away, once you quit eating it all the time. The other thing to watch it to make sure you are getting enough carbohydrates in your diet. While it may seem like you are eating a lot of fruit, try using a nutritional calculator like fitday/nutritiondata/nutridiary to see what your carhydrate intake and calorie intake is. If this value is too low for your energy requirements, this will also cause a bread craving.

glaser farms is really good, i used 2 eat their essence cracker/ breads when i wasnt raw, they are delicious :] yumm makin me hungry :p

Hi Fresh and Bryan,

I'm doing some self-experimentation on grains, especially sprouted wheat. I'm wondering if you happen to know if any of the research you cited above was done on RAW sprouted grains as opposed to COOKED grains and/or COOKED sprouted grain products.

If, as you say, the problems have to do with the opoid family peptides associatied with the digestion of the proteins (in milk and wheat), is it known that the opoids are present when digesting RAW sprouted wheat?

Also, I'm a little confused because the post from Fresh seemed to me to say that the opoids are not actually in the grains themselves, but become present during the process of digestion, but Bryans' post seemed to say that the opoids are actually present in the bread. If Bryan is correct, are there studies showing that the harmful opoids are also present in RAW sprouted grains?

I've heard before of the effect of COOKED grains on the pituitary gland, and that a symptom of that effect can be an overstimulation of the appetite. I can REALLY relate to that. If I eat ANY kind of COOKED grain, I just want to eat a bucket of it! But RAW sprouted grain has the absolute opposite effect on me. I can't possibly eat more than maybe a handful at a time.

It seems to me that at this point in time, most scientific research would involve foods that are common to the general populace. The consumption of RAW sprouted grains is not a common practice, and therefore, it probably wouldn't warrant such research in the minds of government or privately funded researchers.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2007 08:05PM by suncloud.

good question suncloud,,

btw cherryblossom i luv your kitty, its soo cute!!! i luv black cats :]

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Fresh and Bryan,

first read the below site....

[www.youngerthanyourage.com]

then, this talks about sprouted wheat...

Most sprouted wheat still has gluten or gluten peptides remaining. Although
the sprouting begins enzymatic action that starts to break down the gluten
(a storage protein for the plant) into peptides and even amino acids.
Generally this is not a complete process for sprouts used in foods so some
active peptides (active in celiac disease) remain. I don't know anything
about Bioguard specifically, but I would be cautious about it until the
company can say on what basis they are claiming "gluten-free." For example,
how have they tested this?

)I just purchased an antioxidant from a health-food store, called "BIOGUARD".
)The label reads: "Bioguard is composed entirely of hydroponically grown
)wheat sprouts. Hypoallergenically free of wheat gluten and yeast."
)

Hi fresh,

I checked the site (youngerthanyourage). It does seem to say that the opoids are actually present in the wheat itself, but I don't see where there's any reference to RAW SPROUTED wheat, only "All wheat-products, like bread, pasta, pizza, cake, and pastries..."

I also see that the authors advise people to eat "fresh, raw animal food", which makes me kind of wonder, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong about the wheat. Still, they don't mention RAW SPROUTED wheat.

That's very interesting about the "Bioguard". I never heard of that product, but it seems from your post that the reason people would buy it is for the antioxidants. Perhaps it's possible that a high quality and/or quantity of antioxidants present in raw sprouted wheat might somewhat negate the effects of whatever wheat gluten or opoids are still present after sprouting.
Just a thought. There's so much we still need to learn, and so little true research unfortunately into eating raw foods.

Of course, I agree that people who are known to be allergic to gluten should be very cautious with any wheat food, including raw sprouted wheat.

Thanks for all the good info!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2007 09:21PM by suncloud.

CherryBlossom,
Glaser Farms catalogue ( its worth reading just to drool ) which has all kinds of prepared live raw food and raw bulk items uses UPS as their shipping carrier so I don't think you'll be ripped off should you choose to order stuff from them. I'm fortunate that my local health food stores carry their raw goods, but I totally get how shipping costs can completely ruin an ordering experience. Been there done that myself.


peace
joy
harmony
i breathe in
i breathe out
Bikini