if this is happening, can there be any hope of acceptance at the family table?

last night, having dinner in a vegan+lots of raw options restaurant with some friends, the question arose:
"where do you get your protein?"

A. I was eating a living wrap, with cashew and pumpkin seed cheeze.
B. I told them that vegetables have plenty of protein.

they didn't believe me.

"but, you NEED more than that."

even after all the "you look greats" and "you seem so HAPPYs"

eek.

p.s. I just ate an entire mini-watermelon for breakfast.

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

yeah. it certainly got more challanging (for me) in periods where I started looking not so hot.

Thats sort of the way things go. You could come back with something witty, like asking what an amino acid is, or what % of their diet comes from protein (most vegetarians/vegans and raw vegans, even lots of swd eaters get simlar ammounts of protein, most calories come from complex carbs remeber).

but why even bother. Those kind of responses are so transparent. and really stem from fear and a desire to stay within a 'safe' way of programable thinking. Just be supportive of them and if they are generally curious, you could tell them that your watermellon has protein, your salad has protein..virtually everything you are eating has some ammount of protein and fat in the proportions that mimic human needs. Without of course all the 'de-naturing' of the cooked proteins or the proteins in cooked vegan foods which digest/absorb very poorly

so as long as you are eating enough fresh foods, you are covered. if you start fasting, don't tell them!

sigh. i hear ya sistah.

sometimes i feel like i'm being attacked and criticized by family members and friends. i often times don't want to eat in front of people because i don't want to be judged. i'm the only "raw" person i know in my little rural town...and the VEGAN population is sparse too.

my life is lovely, and i accredit my feelings of joy to healthy lifestyle choices. as much as i project my joy, i have not yet been able to shake the negative feelings that arise in my stomach when a friend or family member criticizes my food choices. it always seems to start out with "i'm just worried about you...." Ha!

on a brighter note, i am very thankful i have forums like these where i can connect with others who are trekkin' down the same path.

much love,
m.

I hear you! Here's the deal (my opinion):

-This is a YOU thing. You haven't set adequate boundaries yet. This is especially common among close family and friends. It CAN be almost an all or nothing thing....and often is. You just let friends and family know that you are there to support and hang with them.....but that you diet is NOT open for discussion. If they don't respect that....then YOU have to enforce it by refusing to discuss it.....and/or walking away......and/or kicking some butt! LOL.

-But that's YOUR call....and it's all on you.

-Eating is a very private choice and habit....much like your sexual habits or religious affiliation/habits. You would certainly refuse to engage in a public discussion and critique on these very private issues. NEVER engage in a public debate...around multiple people...about your diet.

-I personally don't even MENTION the word raw. One-on-one....in private....I MIGHT provide some additional explanation.......but NEVER in a public setting......and in a critique-style/defensive manner.

-Defending something or explaining something carries with it the unwritten assumption that there is SOMETHING TO EXPLAIN/DEFEND. In the case of a healthy diet......and if a person is happy and successful..........there is certainly nothing to explain.

-We convert by our success and joy. After that, everyone will want "what you're having!" LOL.

-What do you think?

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

I have tried raw veganism, and I have kept it 100% up to three weeks, and then I started getting sick. Some say it was the start of serious detox. That was scary.

I know how people can be. I had a friend who said I was critical of him, when in fact I was just answering questions whenever he had them. He said I also made him feel weird about the stuff he was eating, which actually may have been ok, and something which he has to process.

But for me there are some internal questions about raw veganism. The most difficult comes from Traditional chinese medicine which has something against eating raw foods, in some cases in any amount. Something which seems pretty strange to me. I want to be supportive, but at this point I am just kind of peering in and wanting the benefits, but being able to get over the questions. Not knowing if raw foodists have an inner scoop on ultrahealth, or if traditional ideas about nutrition are flawed, or mixed with truth and falseness, or perhaps truth from a more limited perspective.

yes, the ONE thing people certainly do not want to do is evaluating their OWN eating choices, so putting them in this position (through your own defense) is going to ignite their defense mechanisms.

In my opinion, things like Ayurveda, Macro, TCM etc...are diciplines which can work to heal on some level as long as they are in conjunction with other practices (spiritual etc...) but have origins of *curing* already un-healthy humans.

Not to say that doing what is natural is always 100% best at every moment. but even folks in early recorded histories were not true examples of health and were very much already on the path to *adding* complexities to the situation to 'balance' it out. Being involved in raw food, by and large, means removing as much of the hammfull intake as appropriate, and allowing things to run their course. When things have gotten scarry for me, I've always tweaked my routine.

Mislu TCM also uses various animal parts as medicinal ...

as an example rhino horn for reducing fever

ok im out in the wild .. im fevered .. am i gonna go try an take rhinos horn off to heal myself? or am i gonna try and find some fruit or vegetable or herb that will do the same thing ..

like some willow bark .. or juicy citrus or melon

maybe TCM makes sense from the point of view when man was able to run around killing stuff ..but before that happened im quite sure they turned to fruits, roots, herbs etc

in my opinion

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

what about the cooking part?

well, again, its another kind of counter-intuitive 'civilized' way of thinking. if the 'science' is there about what happens when foods are cooked, which types of foods are cooked (whether they were food to begin with, like rice for instance), then how would cooking/preparing foods in a special way according to some made up rules be more beneficial for nutition then fresh foods..nevermind more benficial for healing. Why keep throwing things on both sides of the scale to balance?

hmmm ok .. what about it? there is all sorts of information everywhere that points too ..

cooking food degrades or destroys some/most or all nutrients, enyzymes , vitamins , minerals...in living food ..

on the flip side ... some things appartently are better cooked like tomatoes ..

perhaps TCM's prefered people to not be TOO healthy .. otherwise how would they sell their whale penises, and tigers claws etc etc...

much like todays pharmacys

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

hi Mislu,

i'm not an expert on TCM, but from what i gather TCM believes that "raw food" weakens digestion do to the cooling nature of these foods. it somewhat goes in hand with ayurveda in that "raw food" increases "vata" which may cause digestive comfort (through gas, bloating and constipation).

some of these philosophies are worth studying and hold some valid points. i truly love reading about other cultures and their healing modalities! but, one must keep in mind that TCM and Ayurvedic practices were created by humans...who lived in an era when people cooked food.

as far as raw food vs. cooked food...there are many books and studies out there explaining it all! keep researching, Mislu! find what feels right for you!

in my humble opionion, you can never go wrong with adding more enzyme rich/vintamin/mineral dense, RAW fruits/veggies. cooked food is devoid of many of these healthful components.

much love,
m.

I haven't had that experience for some reason. Just about everyone (I've never had anyone be negative yet) has wanted to try raw foods, or green juice, or are very curious about eating an all raw diet.

My room-mate's daughter just got in from float after 9 mo. at sea, and wants to try raw foods. My sister ate much better, more fruits and veggies (salads) and had her daily green juice, or smoothie.

Even my mother who was 82 drank her green juice for the 2 years I was with her.

You could say to your friends that are skeptical, "how do all the animals of the Earth survive on raw foods?"

Love,
Prism

Yeah, the theory in TCM is that cooking and digesting are similiar processes. The idea is that it partly digests it. They fully recognize that some nutrients are being lost, but they fully believe that more is gained from the cooking. Cooking also is believed to warm its atmospheric energy. Which sort of makes sense if more is being absorbed in the way of calories.

A great point is what if the food really isn't that great to begin with. Also another great point about the developement of the medicine occured during cooking phases of humanity.

I do like the ease of passage of foods throught the stools, and the ease of breathing. I didn't like the feeling of being constantly hungry and thinking about eating, and also the feeling of being sluggish, and spacey.Maybe I didn't stay with it long enough. Will those sorts of things pass in time?

if your constantly hungry youre not eating enough .. that goes with the sluggish an spaceyness ...eat more ...

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

For Mislu:

I think it all starts with having, or working on getting excellent digestion. One cannot absorb the necessary nutrients if your body is not properly digesting foods. Cooked foods probably bring about sluggish digestion especially by the time one is around 40 years of age. If you are eating foods already partly digested..what work does your body have to do?

Love,
Prism

shaine,

When I first went raw, I tried to share with people about how healing and healthy raw foods were. What I found was that what I had to say fell on deaf ears. What I did find out over time was that as my health improved, and people noticed my energy and glow, they became curious as to what I was doing, and began to ask me what I ate and why.

For most of the population, they aren't interested in changing their diet, as they don't make the association between a healthy diet and good health. Until this clicks in someone's head, they aren't going to be able to hear the message.

Jodi & prism,
Thank you for your reply. Its given me a bit to think about. My brief experience with raw foods has improved my digestion quite a bit. I do tend to eat a lot, but even more so with raw foods. I have a garden now, but its not doing very well, perhaps in the future it will help provide what I need. The produce around here isn't great, even at a food co-op. At least there are wild berries, I have been trying to get some every day, even if its just a handful. But a few days this week I had the chance to eat until I couldn't eat anymore. I can tell you wild berries taste so much better, and they have more power.

Bryan,
Did you find that age has anything to do with their perceptions? I noticed that younger people are more likely to think they are unbreakable, especially if they are male.

Another part of the equation is that they KNOW certain things are bad for them, such as being overweight, smoking, eating junk food, heavy drinking. They do it anyway, the feeling being that those things are 'fun', and that doing things that are healthy are somehow unfun or uncool or rigid and restricting.

In a sense the restricting part is true. I even find it difficult to limit my consumption of the crap that is out there. In the town I live in, and in the place that I work its particularly bad. I work with people that eat donuts, coffee, hotdogs, french fries etc...EVERY MEAL. The company tried to promote health by making a competitive weight loss program with teams and everything. I think it worked to a small degree, but only temporary. Its strange however what people thought was an improvement...a hotdog on a bun, but only mustard, not catsup, mayo and relish....

I've really fallen off the wagon big time in the environment I live and work. However, I have been making progress towards getting back to how I was originally. Make efforts to bring all my food, and avoid the vending machines or the 'gut truck'. That is how people reference it, knowing full well its bad, but doing it anyway. I haven't managed to go completely raw, but I have elminated processed foods, and increased the amount of raw foods. I don't know why its so difficult. I would like to think I am above the influence, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Nobody around me is skeptical, especially not my family. I used to be alot meaner - short-tempered and impatient - so I think people must be really relieved, because nobody's said a single negative thing to me or asked me snarky questions, and that's just not like them! I am so mellow now, nothing irritates me and I don't yell at people anymore.

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>... some things appartently are
> better cooked like tomatoes ..


I've heard things like this too, but I don't believe it. Maybe the experiments regarding cooked over raw were done on SAD eaters and maybe THEY can't digest raw tomatoes. You know where I'm going with this so I won't continue.

Just saying that the conclusions are given us, without the context, so I've long ago abandoned believing data without context.

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I
> don't know why its so difficult. I would like to
> think I am above the influence, but it doesn't
> seem to be the case.


It would be really hard for me to live among that without caving, too. I don't have to be around it much now and am lucky in that most people know I'm kinda weird about natural stuff and diet, so they don't harrass me anymore. e

Hi you all!

When all this happens (friends and family haressing you out of care because of your diet choices) just think that you might be lucky. It can be so much worse. I live in Romania, a "developing" country, how they try to nicely put it, and the concept of 'organic' for example is totally alien here. You cannot find ANY organic produce unless you have your own garden (as as I live in a large city...). The developing part about Romania is that we imported most of the American (and Western Europe) way of life...fast food and boxed food.

When I look at your recipe section it makes me laugh- about 60% of the ingredients are not available here, and roughly 30% I have never seen/tasted - almonds, pecans, tahini (?), so on and so forth...I don't even remember. Bananas are pricy (I can hardly afford them for my 9 month old daughter), avocados are rare and never ripe (rock-hard). In winter there's almost nothing fresh available except in supermarkets where they cost a fortune, nobody buys them so they are stale. And the list goes on.

I'm sorry for the grim note, yet think that you are fortunate in some ways: although you don't have the 100% approval of those around you, you can still have the freedom to choose to go on.

Good luck to you all!

these friends have been staying at my house for a few days now. It's getting simpler--and in fact, while they sluggishly prepare their meals in my kitchen, I'm satisfying myself with the insane spread of melons and fruits and greens laid out on my table. They joke that--"oh shaine doesn't believe in fire anymore"--but at least it's become a teasing-matter, rather than an interrogation. And they sure didn't mind my guac, or my mango peach salsa.

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

I am new with Raw foods, but I have lost a good friend because of it. As I'm learning that it's great being raw, I feel like telling those who are closest to me.

But my boyfriend who was eating meat, since I've been perparing him raw food meals from recipes out of raw UNcookbooks, he hasn't eaten any meat what-so-ever and he loves loves loves the way I perpare foods for him, especially my juices!

deegarry@yahoo.com Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>, but I have lost a good
> friend because of it.

Me too. It was really hard for me because she is a great person and I love her lots. But she immediately started distancing herself once I started becoming healthier and more committed. I think I know all the reasons why this happened, but for me it's still a great loss. Truthfully, I felt, but didn't say, that she was ruining her health and future with her BigPharm choices and lack of accountability - I think she could tell how I felt and that she had to 'choose' between me and her family and conventional friends.

Eventually I will get to know more raw people, but right now, I only know a small family of them. Like Dave says, all these things are reflections of our deeply-held beliefs.

shaine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if this is happening, can there be any hope of
> acceptance at the family table?
>
> last night, having dinner in a vegan+lots of raw
> options restaurant with some friends, the question
> arose:
> "where do you get your protein?"
>
> A. I was eating a living wrap, with cashew and
> pumpkin seed cheeze.
> B. I told them that vegetables have plenty of
> protein.
>
> they didn't believe me.
>
> "but, you NEED more than that."
>
> even after all the "you look greats" and "you seem
> so HAPPYs"
>
> eek.
>
> p.s. I just ate an entire mini-watermelon for
> breakfast.

So where was there no acceptence? They just said that you need more than that. Could they be right? Have you really gone in to ask yourself? Did you ask them why? Maybe you can learn something from them and then when you open up, you teach them how to open up. You set the example. Did you really accept their attitude towards you wholeheartedly? If you can't do that, how could you expect them to?

My oldest sister is 18 years older than me. She was a typical hippie when I was little. I remember she had food in bulk and we made raisin bran from bran and raisins. She moved to California when I was 7 and back about 7 years ago. She is a nurse and has always felt nutrition as being very important in her life. Her daughter introduced me to raw. when we first decided to go raw I thought she would be our biggest supporter. On the contrary, she has alienated us. I really don't understand her problem because she refuses to discuss it and maintains that she admires the raw food diet. She makes little passive-aggressive comments about it. She alludes to the idea we are forcing this on our children. She is a very controlling person by nature so I think that is part of the problem. It has been nearly a year and although we were very close for years, we hardly speak any more. She made a comment that she wouldn't feel comfortable keeping the kids unless they could eat anything "they" wanted (whatever that means) so now she doesn't keep them even though she was like a grandma to them for years. It seems weird to me and even more weird she won't discuss it. I think it may have something to do with not feeling like she is doing more to be healthy. I wonder if she feels competitive about it.

Aqua,
Its not weird to take care of yourself. Whats weird are people who know better and yet still do things they know are bad for them, and promote it to others. Its not too bad at work, as far as people making light of other peoples habits. Its not really harassing, its more subtle than that. Its the fact that most people just eat incredible amounts of junk. Some KNOW and admit that its not good, but still seem to feel its ok to eat. Which is kind of odd as one person just had an operation for cancer less than two years ago. He likes meat and maple bars, and he sometimes talks about going to a resturant that has a special sized steak, that if you can eat it all you get a mug and a t-shirt, and your name on a wall or something.

For me, I am looking more inside, and I think most of the difficulty is just from inside. Once I am clear about what I want and don't let anyone, not even a loved one influence me, then it will be easier. I do know this, that its also a matter of habit, once your in the habit avoiding cravings is much easier. I think its a matter of taste and habit at first. But things can change.

Its interesting that when I finally broke raw foodism after a number of months, my throat actually closed up by itself, rejecting the food. I am not sure why I didn't pay more attention to that. It was a piece of bread. The texture felt weird, like a piece of stryofoam, and I didn't produce any saliva. On raw I usually produced large amounts, sometimes difficult to keep all in my mouth and not droole.

I just bought some seeds for sprouting, and will start adding some, while at least maintaining avoiding processed food, even if its cooked. And gradually reduce the amount of cooked.

The most difficult part will be dealing with my partner who really likes caffeine products, alcohol, and fine dining at exculsive resturants. I must admit I like going out. But there always seems to be a problem in that only salads seem to be available at these places, for the raw selection. And most of the time there is cheese, meat and or breading added to it. I know I can ask for a green salad, but my partners complaint is always, "whats the sense in going out then?" And somehow my partner thinks I am making an attack or something like that.

CriCri,
Thats really difficult sounding. I guess I should feel fortunate that at least some organic foods are available here. Americans must really have it too easy. That we even have the occation to think about such things. I really think that a number of other countries are too hungry to even think about not using pesticides. When I traveled to korea, I cannot recall ever hearing about anything organic, and people freely used pesticides thinking they are wonderful things. But also the types of foods they eat, it doesn't seem like people have given it much thought. The average korean seems to think nothing about eating white rice, white flour, sugar etc... Maybe things have changed since then, but when I was there, they equated unprocessed food as being for animals.

Mislu, where do you live!