Hey all I just wanted to post this and see what people think and why it may be. I have been seeing a lot of people leave raw food after about 4-5 years. They stop being vegan too. I'm really confused by this. Bryan I'd especially like you to reply.

Why do you all think this is? I have no intention on ending my quest. It's like the world keeps getting better, but why do people stop after that amount of time?

thanks in advance.

some people probably ultimately see raw as a 'cleanse' or 'diet' in the traditional sense. they come up to the wall where they either - consciously or not - realize that they are very much ADDICTED to what they have grown to label a LIFE. Now i'm not talking "get a life you bum!" kind of life, but like in the abstract, in the sense of a story. they don't know how, or don't care to break from that story.

another possibility is they just don't ever reach a very high level of health that they expect, either from what they are putting in (some might say too much fat, others too much "sugar", or maybe having too high expectations.

people stop being vegan (probably more often then not after being raw then cooked vegan Is my guess) I'd say most likely out of fear. or because they didn't really have a serious commitment to being vegan, it just sounded good, and healthy, and was part of their 'program'

I think in most cases, adding animal products will just eliminate any possibility of detoxing further, and then folks tend to feel much better. in some cases maybe it is the iron, b-12 or whatever..i seriously doubt it.

another reason *unfortunately* is that some non-vegan diets (with a sizeable ammount of raw stuff, while leaving out processed starches and sugars, SOY etc..) are probably a lot more healthy then standard veg diets.

just my thoughts

you hear about more folks on fruit based diets turning to "the high protein diet" because they end up cleansing so hardcore, that it might take a few years to hit em. and really, can't BLAME them, because what is left after doing "what's natural"

personally i'm FOR the fruit camp myself (done appropriately), but just an observed stat.

its really all about bringing consciousness and joy. if you interpret your lifestyle as a burden, or a social stigma, you'll eventually figure out some way to sabotage that, or lose interest in that... or whatever

don't you think?

They are not able to emotionally heal and so go running back to foods that will deaden their feelings and their bodies, thus making them "feel better" (numb.) This, unfortunately, is what happens to most people who float through the movement, including some of the speakers (like the one mentioned down further on this page.)

Force the change you want to see in the world through direct, socialist democracy!

[www.dreamingearth.net]

Some peeps prefer the blue pill. Me, I like the red.

Some go too hardcore too fast and never actually relax and enjoy the lifestyle....

F1

learningtofly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some peeps prefer the blue pill. Me, I like the
> red.



Nice reference there.

Phil.

--------------------------------------------------

"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it" (Chinese Proverb)

Here's my opinion:

-Its about MOTIVATION. Diet is just the FUEL that gets you to your desired goals. If your GOALS/INTENTIONS have to do with a simpler lifestyle....and more energetic lifestyle....then you will naturally feel more motivated (if you are honest) to eat the foods that fuel that lifestyle. It's not a right or wrong thing.....just a choice of goals/intentions......and the rest is rather 'compulsory'. It is something of an illusion that we have control over our diet. What we have control over is our choice of attitude in any given moment. THIS gives rise to one's diet......consciously and subconsciously.

-What do you think?

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

David, wow! You really gave me something to think about. It is really helpful right now. Thanks.

I can't imagine quitting high raw. Call me crazy if I ever do that. I wasn't aware that was a common thing to do.

I didn't see the one mentioned down the page

haha, I found dream earths comment really eerie myself.

But I agree with all the posts on this thread so far. including dj!

the red pill really is our most apt metaphor. good to wash it down with lots of organic water (fruits and vegies) for the JOY ride.

morrisson66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey all I just wanted to post this and see what
> people think and why it may be. I have been seeing
> a lot of people leave raw food after about 4-5
> years. They stop being vegan too. I'm really
> confused by this. Bryan I'd especially like you to
> reply.
>
> Why do you all think this is? I have no intention
> on ending my quest. It's like the world keeps
> getting better, but why do people stop after that
> amount of time?
>
> thanks in advance.


I have heard the same thing. Maybe they are not eating enough variety, or not eating what there body needs or...

Love and light!

love



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2007 10:01PM by love.

anaken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> haha, I found dream earths comment really eerie
> myself.
>
> But I agree with all the posts on this thread so
> far. including dj!
>
> the red pill really is our most apt metaphor. good
> to wash it down with lots of organic water (fruits
> and vegies) for the JOY ride.

Did I win the lotto, somebody agrees with me on this forum, I am going for a drink

David Zane Mason wrote:

Here's my opinion:

-Its about MOTIVATION. Diet is just the FUEL that gets you to your desired goals. If your GOALS/INTENTIONS have to do with a simpler lifestyle....and more energetic lifestyle....then you will naturally feel more motivated (if you are honest) to eat the foods that fuel that lifestyle. It's not a right or wrong thing.....just a choice of goals/intentions......and the rest is rather 'compulsory'. It is something of an illusion that we have control over our diet. What we have control over is our choice of attitude in any given moment. THIS gives rise to one's diet......consciously and subconsciously.

-What do you think?


I think that you are absolutely right; and this not theoretically either, but from my own personal experiences of failure going 100%. Self-discipline alone, even coupled with high motivation and enthusiasm, won't succeed one in an all raw diet. There needs to be an over-riding VISION for ones' life that the raw diet serves. Otherwise, every family occasion, every unplanned meal, every bare cupboard and craving will see one slipping back into old dietary habits.

It's as if the raw diet is the leaves of a tree, with the discipline required represented as the trunk. Without strong roots in a personal mission or vision or personal paradigm there is no foundation to keep one stable at raw. The trunk and the leaves flow from out of the roots, as David put it, "consciously or unconsciously".

Every since you first mentioned this idea, David, I've been pondering it and I'm beginning to really "get" what you mean. The first step really is to discover what one wants to be and do. The second step is determining what habits, lifestyles, principles and so on facilitates that. Having a personal vision that truly satisfies enables the "yes" to those things that further it, and a "no" to those things that don't; even when it hurts a little to say "no" from time to time.

This is powerful stuff. I thank you sir.

khale

god....

people are getting SO smart

so inspiring

no "failures" and "drop-outs" here folks, just people doing the best they can..for a lifetime

awesome!

of course everyone needs to exert little pockets of "no" here and there to stay focused, but only until the bulk of their over-riding vision is achieved. then the situation to say "no" won't be arise! the "no"-object becomes like someone offering you a blue pill that also says "cyanide". of course I tend to be... hyperbolic

The over-riding vision is a healthy body. Most usually assume that being raw will necessarily lead to that goal but in many cases it does not. Then the real question is why do people fail on this diet? Is it the approach, the misconceptions, the lack of persistence, the extremism?

I agree with you too Djatchi. For me if I push too hard I only set myself up for failure and will wind up with less than I had while on a steady path. I may never end up 100% raw but for now it is my vision and my goal. If I were happier with any level of raw less than where I am now I guess my path would have ended there. Even when I eat some "healthy" wild rice my body tells me in many ways it isn't optimal therefore telling me my path continues.

I think all reasons given in this thread are why people go off raw. There is surely more than one reason for everyone who changes their path.

Great post khale.

Last two times I went off raw it was because I was feeling so much worse after being on it for several months. I probably wasn't "remineralized" and my organs weren't nourished. I cheated enough to be supplementing, too. Also, I was always exhausted, which turned out to be an undiagnosed disease.

If I hadn't been so completely unable to stop my current lifestyle at that time, I would have taken a year or two off to fast, rest, heal.

So soon I should be able to do what I should have done years ago and rest/fast. Lots of adjustments and arrangements and not sure where to go for maximum relaxation, but something will turn up.

Just lately I've had a huge shift in my diet needs - I suddenly crave 'superfood' treats and freshly foraged weeds. I've been searching the web for mesquite powder, maca, etc, asking Brazilian friends about their diets and availablity of all those great Brazilian superfoods and dreaming about freshly-pulled dandelion leaves. All this defies my long-held ideals about eating a simple, natural hygienic diet, but I'm no so idealistic that I want to crash and burn again. And my cravings are all for raw, which has NOT been the case till now.

Maybe ideals keep people from staying raw, maybe they feel that they must either adhere to a prescribed diet, or go back to eating per their cravings.

I think the reason most people leave raw foods is because it isn't working for them. Assuming one has worked out the transitioning issues of cravings and addiction and detox and eating high fat, it is still possible to get sick.

For most of us in our SAD food eating days, diet was the weakest link in our health (the link metaphor is that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link). If one goes on a low fat raw vegan diet, after a year or so diet is no longer the weakest link of health, and in fact it can become the strongest link of a person's health. Still, with excellent diet, if the other factors of health are not present, one will get sick over time.

I know a raw vegan who have been doing the raw thing for over 5 years, and this person looks emaciated and sickly to me. Because this person thinks they knows what a raw diet "should" be, they won't take a look at the 80-10-10 diet. However, even if this person were eating 80-10-10, I don't think the diet will help them open their closed heart, or to stop them from "protecting" themselves from the "harsh" world. In my opinion this person has a lot of spiritual and emotional work than needs to be done, yet this work is not even showing up on their radar.

So there are spiritual issues that many raw foodists don't address. Then there are all the standard healthful living practices: getting plenty of rest and sleep, reducing stress, getting exercise, fresh air, etc. I was at a raw food event a few months ago, and I was helping male raw foodist move a dining table around the room. For me this was effortless to move the table, but this raw foodist was struggling to keep up with me. I guess I could blame it on his high fat Cousen's style diet, but in fact it was just that this person does no strength bearing exercises/work.

So diet alone won't heal us, or keep us healthy. And while diet may have been our weak link in our health, for most low fat raw vegans, diet is probably the strongest link, and the other weaker links in the health need to be addressed if the total health is to improve.

thanks guys

I believe that Khale and david Z.M. hit the nail on the head for me. It rings so true for me.

~ Tiffany

A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart,
and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words..

djatchi wrote:

"The over-riding vision is a healthy body."


Ask anyone the question, "Do you want to be healthy?", and I'll bet you no one will answer, "No." Then why are not more people healthy if a healthy body is an "over-riding vision"?

Because the will alone is not sufficient to overcome the forces of habit, consensus, and social expectations. There needs to be something that trips the trigger, floats the boat, and inspires action.

My mother, as an example, stayed sick for many years with uncontrolled diabetes. It was only until she located a personal REASON or a goal that required increased health to reach, that things began to fall into place. In my mothers case it was grandchildren and her sight. She wanted cataract surgery and couldn't have it until her blood sugar was under control. Once that goal or vision was firmly in place, my mother has made great strides toward increased health. She began with a blood sugar of 400+ and is now holding between 100 - 109 on a consistent basis. All the, "I should take control of my health" never made a dint.

The body is a vehicle. If you're not going anywhere, what point is there to changing the oil?


khale

>
> The body is a vehicle. If you're not going
> anywhere, what point is there to changing the
> oil?
>
>
> khale

i LOVE this! very profound kale
patty

I left after 4-5 years simply to the lack of fruit availability to cover 80-10-10 adequately in my area. It was decreasing my health actually. Since then, after being more flexible and more educated it is much easier now being %100 raw.

Sometimes I think people also leave simply because people change and are restless or always searching. Also because many like to complicate things which doesn't help.

Opinion:

-In my experience / opinion, a desire for a 'healthy body' is not enough. Khale has an excellent point - as usual. No one, if asked, is going to say they don't want a healthy body...ha!ha! It's not enough to say you want a fancy car....you have to have an over-riding necessary destination....and then you'll FIND a way to obtain the car! Ha! ha! Don't you think? Having the car...at that point....will be the LEAST of your worries......while you are cruising along the journey to YOUR destination!

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Thanks everyone.. I've taken something really precious from just about everything you've all said. I'm not and have never had any intention of going away from this path. I just wanted some feedback on this subject and got a lot more value personally than I expected.