These are the main food groups I plan to eliminate over the next year or so (as part of a nice gradual transition). I'm taking David Masons' advice and doing things slowly this time (great website David).

I have ordered them so that I will eliminate the worst ones first.

I'm curious to know if anyone agrees with my ordering. Are there any other major food groups that I should consider? Are there any that are too broad? What do you think?

Refined Sugar
Caffeine
Alcohol
Junk Food
Processed /Packaged Foods
Refined foods (e.g. white flour, white rice, white pasta)
Meat
Grains (except sprouted?)
Dairy
Fish
Eggs
Beans (except sprouted)
Steamed veggies.

Gary



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2007 03:35PM by gary.

Wow. I think you could start a war with this question, and in the end there's a lot of opinion and person choice in the answer. Personally, I would put junk food above caffeine and alcohol. I would put *raw* alcohol lower on the list, and both meat and dairy much higher (especially dairy!).

(corrected a typo)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2007 04:01PM by frances.

I think it depends on the person and their specific addictions. Meat and dairy are highest on my list.

you could try a list of the raw foods you want to add
i find that alot more exciting and successful

fruitgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you could try a list of the raw foods you want to
> add
> i find that alot more exciting and successful



For sure! Good advice.


For me, most of that list is and always was equally bad, but I always had a sensitive body.

For people who are more resilient and attached to all those things, it might be easier to eliminate them one at a time. But it might be a little like tearing a bandage off slowly......

I've made a few adjustments, and in my opinion this is what I consider worst to best foods:

Refined Sugar/flour/rice food of any kind that is refined (worst)
Processed /Packaged Foods (which is also, refined)
Junk Food (again, I consider all junk food refined)
Alcohol
Caffeine (okay if you must but without dairy or refined sugar)
Dairy (okay, if consumed raw)
Meat (Beef only consumed raw/lightly seared, I consider okay occassionally, not cooked tho!)
Fish
Eggs (if consumed raw)
Grains (sprouted)
Beans (sprouted)
Steamed veggies
raw fruits and veggies (best)

yeah this is personal,

Alcohol far and beyond is a bad thing for me, and its best for the whole world and myself that I do not drink it.

Drugs

refined sugars
caffeine
processed

Much of the foods I ate were from refined sugars.

david

Thanks for the kind support - and words Gary. I love your list. The above posters are certainly correct. It is a very personal issue. And that is why each person must make their own list...and really examine their motivations.

-For me...the actual 'drugs' were the highest on my list. Eliminating smoking was the first (for obvious reasons....I wanted to have a future). Then caffeine (which was making me crazy).....and then alcohol....any of these 'excito-toxins' will put a halt to gradual detox immediately....as the body must turn all energies to eliminating those substances from the blood/body.

Opinions:

-Be wary of the cooked/uncooked complete proteins in meat/dairy and even beans. These must be broken down into constituent proteins in the body anyway in order to be used....and this takes great energy......with excess proteins being stored as fat....and other internal deposits. Of course, once you decide what is right for YOU.......I certainly support you 100%. It is the very act of making a decision about what your dreams are...and consciously doing things toward them....that grants health and happiness.....as even fears/anxieties begin to work for you....and though ever with you......become friends named anticipation and excitement.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2007 11:20PM by davidzanemason.

well some people coming from the worst of diets jump to elminating meat first (thinking they will get some kinda karma-support or something. ha!)

I think you are on in terms of eliminating refined sugar and processed stuff/starches first

dairy makes a great companion with these two, as eliminating diary as a conscious choice that one sticks with, makes it almost impossible to 'eat like a normal person'. You will start to be very creative with preparing your own foods.

by 'creative' I mean LAZY (in my experience). I was the tuberware tubers and rice/quinoa king! It it didn't fit in my rice cooker I didn't bother with it. except for fruits and veggies of course (and I was considered to be at one time a really clever 'chef). Gettting off caffeine and booze on this particular approach I found VERY tough, because the concentrated grains etc...are so draining (I had already detoxed somewhat from meat and other junk at this point and was very lethargic) so those stayed in my diet periodically until I was eating largely raw. My personal belief is these stimulants are NOT really ok on a 100% cleansing diet, even in raw form, but to each her/his own

once you are very comfortable doing this, and are eating lots of fresh produce in addition to maybe some cooked proteins (lean meats or legumes) and simple cooked starches...and following food combining. then the solution to phase out that should come after being more comfortable replacing individual meals with all-raw meals and stretching to all-raw days.

pretty much my list would look exactly like yours, except fish (and i'd add soy) would be very much towards the toxic section.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2007 01:04AM by anaken.

Also, I have to agree with David, that it has to be a very joyful/motivated process. You have to have a real reason for choosing one thing over another out of desire (with maybe some driving intellect), and not some abstract discipline or program.

you can always bend the rules a bit to suite your dreams.

look at Iggy Pop..he's still doing ok...LOL

There's another way to do this. Take your current diet, and start adding more fruits and salads. In terms of cooked things to add, try adding more steamed whole vegetables and the cleaner whole grains like quinoa, millet, etc.

As you eat more of these foods, the other foods will eventually get crowded out, until you are only eating the foods I mentioned. Then, give up the grains, followed by the steamed veggies, and you will be a raw vegan.

As for best bang for the buck of foods to eliminate, here's my order:

Alcohol
Caffeine
Junk Food
Processed/Packaged foods
Dairy
Meat
Fish
Eggs
Refined Sugar
Refined foods
Cooked Fat
Saturated Fat
Beans
Grains
Streamed veggies



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2007 02:00AM by Bryan.

Frances...

I'm curious about the raw alcohol idea. I will look into that! Do you think there is a big difference health-wise between cooked and raw alcohol? Is it something that raw vegans drink long term, or is it something that should be confined to the transition phase?

pakd4fun...

So do you think it is more important to eliminate the addictive items first, rather than the unhealthiest? (For me it would be sugar, cheese, wheat/grains).

I'm not sure about this. I think maybe I should gradually remove the things I'm addicted to in order to make the transition easier. I think that by removing the unhealthiest things first I will improve my digestion and make better use of the good stuff. What do you think?

fruitgirl...

> you could try a list of the raw foods you want to add
> i find that alot more exciting and successful

absolutely.

Bryan...

> There's another way to do this. Take your current diet, and start adding more > fruits and salads. In terms of cooked things to add, try adding more steamed > whole vegetables and the cleaner whole grains like quinoa, millet, etc.

This idea is very appealing and much more positive than focusing on removing the bad things. But I wonder whether the good effects of more raw fruit and veggies might be negated by even small amounts of the really bad foods. Suppose I reached say 80% raw vegan but the remaining 20% was still junk food.

I like your food ordering though. Interesting that you put refined sugar and refined foods much further down the list than me.

Thanks for your opinions.

>>>pakd4fun...

So do you think it is more important to eliminate the addictive items first, rather than the unhealthiest? (For me it would be sugar, cheese, wheat/grains).

I'm not sure about this. I think maybe I should gradually remove the things I'm addicted to in order to make the transition easier. I think that by removing the unhealthiest things first I will improve my digestion and make better use of the good stuff. What do you think? <<<



I think an alcoholic needs to put alcohol higher on their list than an occasional drinker.

I think giving up meat is something that most Americans eat with every meal and therefore should, IMO, put it higher on their list. If you only eat meat once every couple weeks I would put it lower. When I went high raw I had given up meat years before so it wasn't even on my list but I put dairy first for two reasons: 1) the conditions the cows are in and 2)it makes my candida symptoms really bad. I put processed food high on my list because it was what I consumed the most. I am, however, a big believer at going at one's own pace. I am transitioning very slowely. I allow myself to eat a few cooked meals or items a week. I am now limiting my dairy to a small amount of cheese once a week. If I try to force myself and make foods "off limits" I end up wanting it more and start to get a little panicky.

When you say "remove the unhealthiest things" first, doesn't "unhealthiest" change by how much you consume it?

Good luck. I hope you find the best way. Just keep at it and I am sure you will.

I guess I did them in this order over the past few years:

High Fructose Corn Syrup
Fast food
Red Meat inc pork
Other refined sugars
Poultry (pesectarian)
Fish (vegetarian)
Diary
Eggs (and thus I was vegan)
Caffeine
Refined Grains

Still slowly working on completely eliminating all other cooked food.

I didn't chose a specific order really, they just seemed to come to me naturally. Slow and steady wins the race as they say!

What worked best for me was doing research on each thing and finding out what it does to you, who and/or what else gets hurt making it etc, because once you've learned the truth about something it's imposible to "un-know".


As Bryan says, phasing out the junk and replacing it with fresh, good foods. As previously stated it's a very personal thing. Go at your own pace, everyone here will support you in your goal of removing animal products from your diet and going raw.

I think your list looks realistic if you are consuming all of those things now. Good luck.

Phil.

--------------------------------------------------

"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it" (Chinese Proverb)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2007 04:01PM by jadedshade.

Gary-

I put raw alcohol lower on the list because raw alcohol products (most wine and sake) are raw foods, and they have healthful live cultures like other unpasteurized fermented foods. Taken in excess, they can be just as bad as pasteurized alcohol, and it has been said that even in small amounts alcohol can slow detoxification. Wine isn't an ideal food, it isn't necessarily a bad thing occasionally, either.

I don't know whether it would be classified as a transition food, but I'm only six weeks in myself. I know several other members of this forum drink wine occasionally too, but I don't know how common it is or whether it's usually the newer raw food eaters. I feel less inclined to drink now as the alcohol has a stronger effect on me, so maybe that trend will continue until I want nothing more to do with it!

As far as alcohol goes, I know that I personally can't drink it at all when I'm raw. I used to drink a lot, I would drink shots of whiskey on an empty stomach regularly and not feel sick. Then, for example, about a week ago I had some wine with my dinner (raw fruit). I had only 3 glasses and I was throwing up all night and had the worst hangover of my life. No more alcohol for me, but honestly, I wont miss it, I dont feel like I need that stuff anymore =)

Although I still smoke a bit of herb I think that I will eventually eleminate this as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2007 06:07PM by selenes512.

Jaded shade, I like what you wrote. My list isn't the same order but the gradual and natural elimination is similar to what I am doing.

It would be interesting to find out the success rate of going cold turkey verses
taking transition slowly.


Alcohol isn't appealing to me anymore. Smoking herb is more appealing than ever and I will have to address that someday, but not today.

Have a great time eliminating those foods from your diet and an even better time adding new things in!
I've heard it said that as long as you keep adding good things in like raw superfoods and wild foods, etc. then the other things will eventually be pushed out. The order in which this happens is up to the individuals disposition and experience.

I've been 100% raw for about 3 1/2 months (and about 90% over the last 7 years) but I still drink a lot of red wine! I know it sounds crazy, but it's just how it is. Also, I've noticed over the years that people get hung up on cheese, it's more addictive than heroin.

The main two practices that I've found to be most successful in this transition are:
1. Research. Read, watch & listen to mp3s on raw food nutrition and energetics of
food. Systematically brain wash yourself and all of the parts of you that want to hang onto old habits!
2. Take advantage of the amazing time we live in where you can get the best foods from all over the world in a raw organic form either online or at health food stores.

It's a very exciting adventure and you might find that it leads to a whole lot more than "good" health.

Best wishes

Hi.

Before making the food list, one should question him(her)self: there is anything I eat/drink in every day and I would probably not be able to stay away from it for 2 weeks?
And the result will be an ADDICTION LIST (different for each person).
An addicted individual should not trust his body signals, because his system is not balanced.

I lectured quick all the posts from this thread and I am very surprised to find out that NOBODY mentioned nothing about the products containing artificial sweeteners - from so many "diet" foods.

I believe that those are even worse than the refined sugar of any kind.

In my list I will keep the (any kind of) refined sugar or artificial sweeteners as the main enemy.
================================================
WHY?
Simple. From my own experience, I lost 39 pounds (very slow - in couple of years), from 264 to 225 pounds) only avoiding any product having refined sugar and artificial sweeteners in it - and here I include any kind of soda/pop (even the so called "energy drinks", while I continued to eat the same.

Foods from worst to best
========================
1. refined sugar, artificial sweeteners and foods containing them,
2. junk foods,
3. any kind of cooked (and canned) foods containing preservatives,
4. any kind of grains (flour), rice and such (bakery) products bleached, artificial colored, "flavor enhanced", and treated with anti-mildue chemicals (the fumaric acid is just an example);
5. any raw fruits and veggies coated with wax and treated with chemicals meant to extend their shelf life;
6. any non-organic fruits and veggies
7. the same for the hydroponic cultures, greenhouse
.
.
.
At the "best" end, we cannot put a certain fruit or vegetable, 'cause we have v. complex needs for our nutrition and there is no single food containing everything we need, not to mention that we all have different needs which are changing over time - season, age, environment, activity, etc.

In my concept, the best is wild fruits and vegetable, pulled out from ground or picked up from their trees and consumed fresh immediately, NEVER dehydrated, frozen, refrigerated or cooked. Even the contact with air after are sliced/chopped is decreasing their qualities.

Note:
=====
I formulated the sentence above as my concept of eating healthy and I believe some exceptions may occur, but I wanted to be concise as much is possible.

Pls. excuse my English - foreigner.

=============================================================
Medicine, Food Industry and Commerce are businesses.
Is their goal to make/keep me healthy or to make more profit?
=============================================================

Hi.

Before making the food list, one should question him(her)self: there is anything I eat/drink in every day and I would probably not be able to stay away from it for 2 weeks?
And the result will be an ADDICTION LIST (different for each person).
An addicted individual should not trust his body signals, because his system is not balanced.

I lectured quick all the posts from this thread and I am very surprised to find out that NOBODY mentioned nothing about the products containing artificial sweeteners - from so many "diet" foods.

I believe that those are even worse than the refined sugar of any kind.

In my list I will keep the (any kind of) refined sugar or artificial sweeteners as the main enemy.
================================================
WHY?
Simple. From my own experience, I lost 39 pounds (very slow - in couple of years), from 264 to 225 pounds) only avoiding any product having refined sugar and artificial sweeteners in it - and here I include any kind of soda/pop (even the so called "energy drinks", while I continued to eat the same.

Foods from worst to best (Revised)
==================================
0. The NUMBER ONE ENEMY - number Zero here, and THE WORST THING TO DO is to eat only foods with GOOD TASTE.
I will always say that we have to let the brain make the menu.
Choosing the food based on how good it tastes is a huge mistake.
Those eating only what they like, ALWAYS eat MORE THAN THEY REALLY NEED, not to mention that they will miss a significant percent of fruits and vegetables).
I will consider only the taste component which is warning me if my food is spoiled or rot or has an unusual taste. As example to sustain my theory is the fact that most of animal don't care if the grass or fruits are bitter or having other-than-sweet taste. Some of them will never eat sugar or sweet).

1. refined sugar, artificial sweeteners and foods containing them,
2. junk foods,
3. any kind of cooked (and canned) foods containing preservatives,
4. any kind of grains (flour), rice and such (bakery) products bleached, artificial colored, "flavor enhanced", and treated with anti-mildue chemicals (the fumaric acid is just an example);
5. any raw fruits and veggies coated with wax and treated with chemicals meant to extend their shelf life;
6. any non-organic fruits and veggies
7. the same for the hydroponic cultures, greenhouse
.
.
.
At the "best" end, we cannot put a certain fruit or vegetable, 'cause we have v. complex needs for our nutrition and there is no single food containing everything we need, not to mention that we all have different needs which are changing over time - season, age, environment, activity, etc.

In my concept, the best is wild fruits and vegetable, pulled out from ground or picked up from their trees and consumed fresh immediately, NEVER dehydrated, frozen, refrigerated or cooked. Even the contact with air after are sliced/chopped is decreasing their qualities.

Note:
=====
I formulated the sentence above as my concept of eating healthy and I believe some exceptions may occur, but I wanted to be concise as much is possible.

Pls. excuse my English - foreigner.

=============================================================
Medicine, Food Industry and Commerce are businesses.
Is their goal to make/keep me healthy or to make more profit?
=============================================================



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2007 11:11PM by ErikSkulasonUSA.