I am new to this idea of Raw Foods and I am trying to find out more information on it. One of the things I was wondering is what are the living enzymes? Since enzymes are really just a type of protein do they have any specific names for these living enzymes? I have taken some courses in Health and it seems that most all dietary proteins have been discovered and named, but I am not sure which ones are being talked about when the words "living enzymes" are used in context of the ones that are destroyed with heating but that are also essential to our bodies. Could someone please help me out with this?

On that same train of thought…one of the main arguments for eating raw is that there are enzymes in the food that we eat that are "necessary" for proper digestion. According to the raw theory these enzymes are denatured when heated to a temperature above 116 degrees fahrenheit. Aren't these same enzymes also denatured in the stomach's acidic environment? From what I have read they are and therefore are no longer beneficial as functional enzymes. Once in the small intestine, peptidases, the body's enzymes for breaking down proteins, including enzymes, cuts these denatured enzymes up into smaller pieces for absorption by intestinal epithelial cells. Therefore, it seems to me that this theory of "living enzymes" helping in digestion is misleading. If I am wrong, please respond to this message and tell me where I can find the evidence to prove the theory of "living enzymes" in raw food, and their actual benefit to the diet.

Opinion:

-Its another......sort of.....myth that eating raw is all about 'enzymes'. The trend here is to eat foods that are somewhat self-digesting. That is, they contain enough of their original enzymes to start breaking down the food immediately.

-My experience is that raw foods - especially fruits....digest quickly....cleanly.....and promote a better digestive transit. Call this enzymes if you wish.....or magic....it makes little difference to me.

-If nothing else....I believe we become a part of what we partake in.......food...work...play...people...etc. We vibrate in sympathy with it. Therefore, be wary of taking in foods whose sole purpose in being created and distributed is to make someone a quick buck! Ha! ha!

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

yes, many people say they support a simple diet/living yet spin a lot of complexity

cooked foods are devoid of water, have less nutrients, and are very complex. ie. have a host of problems associated with the actual heating..AND the amalgamation of harmful/unrecognizable/refined substances.that have to get stored SOMEWHERE if they arn't removed quickly, though the obvious routes or though detox/symptoms like colds, acne etc... the younger healthier beings respond more quickly to harmful stuff. The older folks hold on to their wastes, its a national pastime.

the more natural/pure/simple the food you eat, the more energy can be diverted away from the constant bombardment of crap..to the dealing of stored wastes. The living foods main advantage is its lack of harmful substances (eaten in the right combinations, without fermentation), easy digestibility, and abundance of the right nutrients in the right amounts to re-build.

Some people with very compromised systems, might do better with lesser bulk, and more nutrient dense sources, and that demand certainly has a supply..heh..so its all good

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"The living foods main advantage is its lack of harmful substances"

that's the only reason i need. the rest of that, enzymes, etc, it's not essential for me to know every little thing about the process for me to know it's right. i mean, no one ever asks those questions as justification for eating, say, a double bacon cheeseburger, so why in the world does salad have to answer so all encompassingly for itself? the questions make me think that the asker (not neccessarily you gsw75, these questions get asked by many) is looking for a reason NOT to eat raw.

Yeah coco, sometimes I wonder if newbies are just challenging the idea of raw, or if they're sincerely seeking info.

Maybe I'm just cynical,... hope not.

hah, yeah I guess I am guilty for dishing out some complexity of my own..

I like to be..uh. thorough.

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Fresh foods are full of enzymes (proteases, lipases, amylases, nucleases, etc).. They get released while chewing. Some will even get absorbed into the bloodstream intact. Many fruits (apples, oranges, lemons, etc) have similar pH to the human stomach. Enzymes from these foods are active even at low pH. Most animal foods, however have a high pH and require increased digestive-enzyme production to break them down.

well, divesting of old theories and acceptance of new ones is certainly a very healthy/necessary process, so that motivation - in this case - isn't ultimately that important IMO

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I understand the cynical reaction to my question. I assure you I am not looking for any excuse not to eat raw...if that were the case I would just choose not to do it and "let bygones be bygones." However, I am very interested in truth and facts (however that is determined) to help promote stronger reason and reduce simple ignorance (mostly mine). I have been fed a lot of misinformation throughout my life and this drives me to not repeat that history. As I study to become healthcare provider I am truly interested in learning what is best for those that would seek my counsel in the future. As I am sure you are aware, there are some things that are not traditionally taught to health care providers, but are quite efficacious. My questions only serve to discover truths that may otherwise be difficult to apprehend.

All of that being said, I think that that there are many good reasons to eat raw, or to atleast increase the raw aspect of our diets, even if some of the original reasons may be found less than substantially important.

Well there are a few people here who like to support their reasons for following a raw diet with lots of studies and data. So there are several threads on these, though maybe none lately.

Maybe you could search 'enzymes' or 'b12' or whatever you want to read about.

There are also other raw sites and there are articles on raw on the main site here, (outside of this message board).

You'd be better off doing your own research rather than asking here to be convinced.


You'll learn as much about raw as your world view allows you to.

Surely there are people here who research out what they believe to be true, or at least can guide me to places where I can find the information. Most of the material on this site and many others seems to be a little vague. I am just looking for more substantiated details.

And believe me, this is not the only place I am looking for answers. But I have found that the answers are rarely in only one spot. Thus, I look in as many places as I am able. However, I can not read everything there is, or even know where all of the information is. That is why I am using this thread to "pick the brains" of those that live this lifestyle.

Jono,

Do you know how the pH values of fruits are determined, and where I can find these values?

As far as proteases, nucleases, etc. I understand that all living cells have these types of enzymes in them for the process of breaking down unwanted particles in them. This is all part of the reguvination process that is used to help cells to grow, propagate, and even commit "cell suicide" (aka apoptosis)--all natural parts of the cell cylce. But most of these enzymes are kept separat from the rest of the cell in compartments such as lysosomes. Does that mastication of food contribute enough shearing force to break these up in order to release the enzymes? Probably, but the next question would be: from the time mastication starts to the time the food enters the acidic environment of the stomach is there enough time for these enzymes to do their work? However, if what you say about these enzymes being able to work at the stomach's pH then of course there should be plenty of time.

Are you aware of any studies/research, etc. that have substantiated this?

Thanks for the input it does help give some direction.

By the way, if anyone else is interested, I have found an article that supports the idea that plant cells do have lytic organelles, i.e. lysosomes, which would contain the enzymes protease, nucleases etc. Here is the reference:

"Barley Aleurone Cells Contain Two Types of Vacuoles: Characterization of Lytic Organelles by Use of Fluorescent Probes." Sarah J. Swansona, Paul C. Bethkea, and Russell L. Jones . Plant Cell, Vol. 10, 685-698, May 1998

According to several textbooks the pH in a lysosome is kept about 4.7. This would be the obvious pH as which the enzymes in lysosomes could operate. The textbook that I get that number from also says the stomach pH gets down to <1 to 2. However, other sources, such as wikipedia, say that the stomach pH is anywhere between 1 and 4. If the latter is true then there is a good chance that some of the enzymes in the lysosomes may be operable at some of the higher pH values of the stomach.

Sources:
wikipedia.org

Ross, Michael H.; Pawlina, Wojciech. Histology: A Text And Atlas. Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. 5th Edition. 2006.

gsw, here's a list of Ph values for various foods:
[www.cfsan.fda.gov]

Another consideration is that water rich foods will dilute the contents of the stomach and will alter the pH. For example, a watermelon may have a pH around 5, and when eating the watermelon you are diluting your gastric juices greatly, which will raise the pH level inside the stomach.

I understand your need to substantiate all these things with research, and the research is out there to piece together if you have the time and motivation. But enzymes are just a small part about eating raw. I'm more interested in reducing intake of things like AGEs and oxidized fats, and eating foods that are easy to digest, maximizing nutrition, etc. Living enzymes is an interesting subject, which hopefully will receive some attention from academia as emphasis on raw foods become more prevalent.

i agree with others that the enzyme issue is not a good one to use to justify this diet.

have you read dr. edward howell, gsw75 ?

I just ordered his books, but haven't received them yet. I understand he is the father of the "living enzymes" concept. I look forward to reading them.

Jono
I have just been looking up information on AGEs and there is a lot of interesting reports on research dealing with these complexes. Thanks for turning me on to this field of research.

The term "living" enzymes should be interpreted to mean enzymes that are active, and thus capable of promoting/sustaining the processes of life that take place within our cells and tissues. "Living" equals "functional", and does not literally imply that the enzymes themselves are completely alive. "Active" enzymes would be a better term.

Some enzymes are robust enough to survive the stomach's acidity, even though they are "inactivated" while in the presence of that pH level. Most enzymes only function well within a relatively narrow temperature range; this is actually the basis of how a fever can cure an illness! Some enzymes are partly broken down by the acidity, but the body can easily re-assemble the remaining consituents ("building blocks" into needed enzymes at a later stage.

If you eat acidic foods like lemons, the "detector" cells in the stomach lining detect the acid levels from the lemon juice, and adjust the output of your own stomach acid accordingly, to maintain an appropriate level of acidity in the stomach (appropriate to the food that has been eaten). As a result, you will produce less stomach acid when eating such acidic foods, than you would otherwise. However, even with similar pH levels, the citric acids are different from the hydrocholic-type stomach acid, and will not digest food nearly as well (if at all), so more of that meal may pass through less-completely digested.

The idea that things --whether enzymes or bacteria or whatever-- are all destroyed by stomach acidity, is largely disproven. SOME types are, yes, but in most cases, some percentage (depending on what it is) will survive to pass on unscathed.

Enzymes are critical for nearly all cellular functions, not just digestion, and there are hundreds of enxymes at work in each of our cells. The building blocks for digestive enzymes and all the other metabolic enxymes are mostly the same, just re-arranged in different patterns (much the way that just a few amino acids can make up all genetic DNA material for all living organisms) and the body's ability to manufacture enzymes (mostly done in the pancreas and spleen) is limited.

That is why it is important to eat "living" enzyme-rich foods. The less the body has to produce digestive enzymes for digestion, the more it can produce the other enzymes needed for cellular respiration, immune-system activity, etc... The more enzymes (and even partly-broken-down enzyme-building components) that are eaten and absorbed, the more effectively and efficiently the body can function.

The tiredness people often feel on a SAD diet is often largely the result of insufficient enzyme levels. This may be exacerbated by the body's using heat-altered components to construct "almost right" enzymes that will not function right. Roughly analagous to using trans-fats to construct cell wall components. The body sees the fat compounds as appropriate and uses them, but they aren't quite right, so the cell wall made with them doesn't function right. Similarly, an enzyme with a few molecules incorrectly placed will not function right, if it functions at all.

Also relevant to note that enzymes tend to be very complex, very long protein structures with specific and different shapes for each function they serve, much like complicated keys, each made to fit different chemical locks. To create them from basic materials in itself uses a lot of other enzymes and energy. That is why our body's capacity to make them is finite, and why it is wise to try not to deplete, but rather to conserve and replenish, our enxymes from natural sources, as much as we can. If we eat raw, living foods, we maximize the chances of our body absorbing correctly-made, functioning enzymes, or at least the right consticuent parts to make them and thus to support life.

The day that teh cells of a Hostess Twinkie or Hamburger or French fry can carry on life functions (respiration, reproduction, energy storage and release, etc..) on their own --like those of all the raw plant foods we eat can-- is the day we should eat them for their life-giving enzymes. Until such time, they remain foods that will do more to deplete our precious enzymes, than to support them. We may get other building blocks (minerals, etc...) from them, but without the enzymes to make those things "acitve", there is no LIFE to be obtained from them.

gsw75 -

I think that enzymes are a wonderful and valid part of the raw and living foods lifestyle for those who are interested in the scientific aspect of it.

Many ill people who eat SAD and begin to undergo enzyme therapy have amazing results.

I consider eating raw as my own natural enzyme therapy.

Enzymes are a part of the whole living foods package (minerals, vitamins, phytonutrients, fats, carbs, etc.), and to me, your curiosity about them is natural.

I encourage you to continue your quest about enzymes. You will benefit from your understanding of them.

-Smile

Yah, enzymes are proteins.

When proteins are denatured (by application of heat, acid, pressure, etc.) they become dysfunctional.

Your body will break down the peptide bonds to get individual aminos from your food anyway, they say we can't really get particular activity eating particular proteins since we break them down (such as insulin which is why it needs to be injected).

But aside from this denatured proteins are more likely to particpate in glycation reactions, and some of the aminos might be less available. And the vitamins and phytochemicals also present will be damaged for sure.

Great post Arkay!

I agree, thanks for the awesome, informative post Arkay!

Arkay,

Do you have sources?

yeah... good post Arkay, thanks