Hello everyone. I am new to raw foods -- I've been doing it 100% for about a week. I've been vegetarian for a year, and pretty much vegan for a few months before going raw (and consequently 100% vegan).

I am a little concerned about protein intake. I have read all the studies (The China Study, etc.) that say that (1) animal protein is bad, and (2) we need a lot less protein than the USDA believes, so I realize that there is some convincing evidence that I may be getting all the protein I need on what I'm eating now. However, in order to make sure I'm getting protein, I find myself turning to nuts and seeds, and am alarmed by the amount of fat (including gross amounts of saturated fat) that I'm consuming as a result. I've been tracking my nutritive intake on fitday.com (which I highly recommend to everyone) -- yesterday alone I had 111 grams of fat, including 17 grams of saturated fat. This is almost entirely from nuts.

This won't do. But I'm an athlete and need protein. I know all vegetables have some protein, but those grams just don't seem to add up to anything close to the recommended range (50 or so per day for me, at the very least), without also adding some concentrated protein sources. So I'd like to know what good sources of protein people rely on that are not also extremely fatty. I note that a cup of oats and a cup of peas both have 8 grams of protein, so that's great.

What else?

I've also noted that I'm consistently very low on both niacin and zinc, according to fitday.com. Any input on this? Mushrooms are high in both, but are people eating mushrooms every day?

Basically eat more greens.

Get a juicer and juice

200 g spinach
400 g baby zucchini
200 g cabbage

and add a piece of fruit, carrot, or beet if you need to mollify it.

There goes 19 g of protein, 60% of your daily zinc needs, and 34% of your niacin.

You can use the search tool at [www.nutritiondata.com] to see which vegs are highest in protein, niacin, and zinc.

You can satisfy your methionine req. with brazil nuts.

You could also use hemp protein powder or rice protein powder, neither of which is really raw but they are both processed at low temps.

Hmm. At the risk of getting into a controversial subject, is it possible to get all your protein without juicing? I'm attracted to a raw food diet partly because it seems logical to me that our bodies are designed to eat foods in their natural state, and that eating about 1800-2200 calories worth of the right foods in their natural state will give us all the nutrients we need. I don't personally believe that juicing qualifies as eating foods in their natural states.

Through this experiment and my subsequent research I'm beginning to think that we were meant to eat a small amount of meat most days -- maybe 95% vegetative food (including some grains), and 5% meat (or even less). Otherwise it just doesn't seem possible to get the protein, zinc and niacin we need. I rely on tofu, tempeh, seitan and soy milk as a regular-old mostly-vegan.

Any thoughts? I think this is all so fascinating!

If you eat enough fresh fruits and vegetables to meet your energy or caloric needs, you will get enough protein to meet your amino acid needs.

How much amino acid does an athlete need? Lets say you work out enough so that you put on 1 pound of muscle in a month. That means you need to have enough amino acids to create 1 pound, or 448 grams of human protein. On a per day basis, that is 448gram/30days, or 15 grams of protein in a day. That is easy to do on a diet of eating only fruits and vegetables, assuming you are getting 2000 calories a day.

a great source of protein is shelled hempseeds. you can buy them in 5lb bags and add to smoothies or whatever.

Thanks, guys. This is helpful and interesting.

It really depends on what aminos are present in those proteins. With plant proteins, there is the tendency for more of the aminos to be nonessential and less essential, which means lower net nitrogen utilization. So if you want to get technical, you will have to look at your individual EAA intakes rather than g of protein.

And also bump up about 10% or more if your diet is very high in fiber, since high fiber diets reduce net metablizable energy.

But generally if you are getting 2000 kcal/day and eating a variety of raw foods you should get enough within reason. The trouble spots tend to be methionine, cysteine (1/3 of which can sub for methionine) and lysine. Some fruitarians might be borderline for those.

Also methionine restriction is life-extending in animals tested. So in some ways it might be better to not worry about getting more. In addition, IGF-1 levels will be lower with a low-protein diet and is associated with lower risk of cancer.

I still think greens are a good idea for minerals. If you don't want to juice, you can blend, or eat lots of salads with your greens finely chopped.

fruitflies

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

lol lol lol
jodi thats so funney

"2 organic, room temperature Eggs "ONLY EAT THE EGG YOLK" not the EGG WHITE. This will cause biotin defiency"

Ok. this is a vegan board so technically there should be no non-vegan sugestions. Also egg white is the part with all the protein. Anyways. Hemp protein is supposed to be a fantastic, complete protein source, much superior to soy.

I use Manitoba Harvest brand as they guarantee 50% protein and use a "cold press" method which makes it raw compatible.

Quite a few vegan athletes swear by hemp protein.

When it comes to protein quality and absorption are far more improtant that number of grams you eat. In my opinion vegetable based protein is better.


Look at the Fruitarian One - [www.fruitarianfitness.com]
All he eats is fruit, now look at those pictures and tell me if you think he's lacking protein or isn't athletic
(Sorry F1, I am always using you as a reference point on this issue).


It is more difficult to suggest a food that doesn't have protein in it than to name one that does, if you lick your own arm right now you will probably get a little protein.

How many cases in western civilization have you heard of someone being protein deficient?

Additionally there are people in China who survive on 1 to 2 meals a day of rice and vegetables and carry out physical labor. If you look it up online you will also see that a lot of atheletes are becoming vegetarian or vegan because they find they get better results.

A note on the training side from me personally: I have found that the more fresh fruits I eat the better my endurance is in the and I don't feel weighed down or heavy like I do if I have had more of a cooked food day. My recovery rate also seems faster.

Hope this helps

Phil.

--------------------------------------------------

"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it" (Chinese Proverb)



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2007 12:58PM by jadedshade.

If you are really concerned -
Decide how much protein you feel you want or need. Everyone has an opinion on the amount you'll find.
Next, get a calorie or whatever counter and figure out the protein you'd get from the food you eat or would eat.
Adjust as needed or what makes you comfortable.

In addition, usually the amount of protein actually needed is much lower than what you have been told blindly by others all your life. Be open minded :O)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2007 01:34PM by tanawana.

Hi there-

I know some people won't use it here because I don't think it is considered "raw" but I use nutritional yeast in my salads. Four tablespoons gives you 560% RDA of niacin and 42% RDA of zinc.

For protein, I enjoy sprouted beans such as chickpeas or lentils. If you are going to sprout beans, make sure you look up which ones you can eat raw since some in their raw state are toxic to eat. My husband and I found out the hard way after eating sprouted red kidney beans and getting very sick!

Lotusblossom

Folks,

I deleted all the non-vegan posts on this thread. Its OK for non-vegans to participate, however the posts need to be vegan in nature.

I have always considered nutritional yeast to be vegan. Yeast isn't an animal, and the authors of several of my raw and non-raw vegan cookbooks call for it frequently. (I enjoy cookbooks and buy too many.) In addition to niacin, nutritional yeast supposed to be great for b12.

Sprouted mug beans! I sprout them and they are yummy and full of protein.

Olivia,

here's a lead for you-

[www.foodnsport.com]

Seaweed is supposed to be high in protein, at least some kinds like nori, others have FAR less protein. I just read about this a few days ago in Zavasta's book "Your Right to be Beautiful" so I don't know much about it. The next time I went shopping I picked up a pack of nori and the package said that each sheet had 1 gram of protein which isn't tremendous but it's easy to eat, it's vaguely like potato chips with it's crunchyness and saltyness.

On a website selling nori they said this about its protein content: "The food value of nori lies in its high protein content (25-35% of dry weight), vitamins and mineral salts, especially iodine. Its vitamin C content is about 1.5 times that of oranges and 75% of the protein and carbohydrates are digestible by humans, which is very high for seaweeds."

I also second the idea of brewers yeast, even though it isn't raw, you can get up to your goal of 50g of protein really fast with it since there are 8gs of protein in each tablespoon.

100g of parsley has about 24g of protein

100g of hemp seeds has about 25g of protein

Getting enough protein can be easy.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

I hope Bryan won't delete this post as I feel it may bring a salient point or two to this discussion.

Most folks have been addressing the question of "how are you getting your protein" yet with the exception of JadedShade (Phil) and a few others, the fact that Ms. Newton-John is an athlete and new to the raw lifestyle seems to have been forgotten.

I too, am new to the superior eating program of raw foods and work out hard daily & enjoy endurance events such as running marathons and long distance cycling. What I've found the most debilitating part of eating raw is the lack of energy that I normally have to compete in such events. I simply feel as if there's no gas in the tank. Even tougher are century bike rides where I'm used to fueling up every hour with PowerBars or gel packs (carbs in a squeeze packet). Bananas and other fruit are great but attempting to put back 5,000 calories burned over a 5-6 hour cycling event with fruit just isn't working. Please note, I am aware that one can NOT put back calories burned versus calories consumed on a 1:1 level. I've been working out for quite a few years at this point.

In my mind the issue is two fold - proper protein intake given:

1. A person new to the raw lifestyle and whose body is used to protein derived through other nutritional means

2. An athlete with different caloric needs than a person who walks or participates in yoga (which are *fabulous* forms of exercise by the way)

I'm learning quite a bit from this thread. My thanks to all.

Regards,

David

David,

When athletes "hit the wall", are they deficient in protein? How does a diet rich in fruits and vegetables, with it lower protein percentages as compared to animal products or soy products, hinder athletic performance? The only raw teacher out there who is coaching professional athletes is Dr Doug Graham, and he is recommending eating a lot of fruit to his atletes, including marathoners and tri-athletes, where high endurance is necessary. Go to Doug's vegsource forum and read what Harley (a cyclist) is eating.

[www.brendanbrazier.com]

there may be good info on brendans website.
professional athlete

David,
Your post implies that you think athletes need to eat more protein, but then you go on to talk about something completely different -- overall caloric intake. I'm not quite sure what your meaning is but I'd like to address your comment that your weakness is a sign there is "no gas in the tank". On the contrary, weakness can be felt when there is plenty of fuel in the body and in fact it is a common symptom among new raw fooders who typically overeat to the tune of many times what their bodies truly need.

Hunger is the signal the body uses to express its need for fuel, exclusively. Weakness is a call for rest, and rest only. Raw athletes are incorrectly advised to eat more to fuel their workouts. Expenditure is not as closely tied to intake as is popularly assumed. When the body is clean and efficient, FEWER calories are needed, even if a person is extremely active.

Of all the raw fooders I know, I've only known two people who have transitioned successfully to the point where they eat ONLY when hunger strikes. That means they eat ONLY when they feel the not-unpleasant sensation that is felt primarily in the back of the throat. It has been described as similar to mild thirst and it is never accompanied by weakness, lethargy, heavy limbs, sleepiness, headache, spaciness, faintness, blurry vision, a growly stomach or any of the other symptoms that are commonly thought of as hunger. Both of these people are trim, very physically fit and extremely active. One of them did two 40 mile hikes on consecutive days a couple years ago, and did not take water or food with him. The day before he did those hikes, he did a 26 mile hike. When he returned each day, he ate 12-15 pieces of watery fruit (apples and plums). This person has been raw and hygienic for 17 years so his body is extremely efficient. The other recovered food addict I know has similar tales to tell.

Eating is stimulative as it requires a flurry of chemical, hormonal and mechanical activity in the body. When we eat to manage weakness, we initiate this re-stimulation and our symptoms go away. It doesn't mean what we felt was hunger, and it guarantees the return of weakness. In fact, doing this over a lifetime creates such a backlogged need for rest that when people who've eaten "normally" their whole lives either go raw or fast on water, they sometimes get as weak as kittens.

Everyone who goes raw experiences periodic weakness. The best way to deal with it is rest when you can and eat when you can't. We all have jobs and other obligations we need to stay functional for while we're making these changes so it will often be the case that when the body is signalling its need for rest, we have to eat instead. In practice we'll need to compromise but while we're doing that it's important to change the way we think about our symptoms -- identifying them properly (as cleansing rather than as hunger) so we can eventually learn to respond to them appropriately.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

beautiful, nora....

Thank you Nora.

Diamond Dave heres a quote from Brendan Brazier the vegan athlete I found in the link above courtesy of Fresh.

"Once I realized the value in nutrient density, assimilation, and absorption of food, I began eating in terms of net gain with no adherence to calorie consumption guidelines. Instead, I focused on consuming nutrient dense, easily assimilated foods. As a result my recovery rate has significantly improved. I no longer need an extra day to recover from eating copious amounts of conventional food. Enhanced by simple means of increased efficacy, my body now pools its retained energy resources to recover more quickly from muscle damage associated with training. Today, I consume about 30% fewer calories than I did just two years ago yet have more energy through conservation, as opposed to consumption"


Here's the whole article - [www.vegparadise.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 06:51PM by Dulset.

I would end up in the hospital if I ate nothing for a day or a few pieces of fruit. I have to have protein, as it keeps me from having sugar crashes, which is life threatning for me. I was born with hypoglycemia and was diagnosed with one bad adrenal gland when I was a teen. I could literally die, and one time had to be rushed to the hospital, when I mono'd on just red grapes.

One size does not fit all. Proving a point about one man, or three for that matter, does not prove anything. We are all different.

That is wonderful for the ones who can fast or live on fruit, but you are not the ultimate "case in point".

Well, all I can say is that I continue to be a sponge and learn from everything I read on this forum. Clearly my learning curve will be measured in years at the very least.

Great responses from Bryan, Nora, and everyone else. I have recently checked out Mr. Brazier's web site and found it to be very informative. Even before submitting my comments above I knew there were successful endurance athletes espousing the raw food concept (ex. Organic Athlete). Apparently my lack of knowledge (which is turning in to frustration...) is manifested by my recent venture in to eating raw.

My thanks to one and all for their input,

David

>
> Everyone who goes raw experiences periodic
> weakness. The best way to deal with it is rest
> when you can and eat when you can't. We all have
> jobs and other obligations we need to stay
> functional for while we're making these changes so
> it will often be the case that when the body is
> signalling its need for rest, we have to eat
> instead. In practice we'll need to compromise but
> while we're doing that it's important to change
> the way we think about our symptoms -- identifying
> them properly (as cleansing rather than as hunger)
> so we can eventually learn to respond to them
> appropriately.
>
>
This pretty much sums up the answer to most of the posts on this board..ha ha.

awesome

food is merely the tool for regulating your detox. the dense food slows/halts this process, even greens..the lighter foods (fruits) slow it less, but compared to one's normal fare, appear to speed things up and all kinds of symptoms can arise.

So any issue of 'imbalance', 'fatigue' 'deficiency 'symptoms'' is just one big unraveling signal, getting hardcore rest, or eating denser(or more complex meals)/lighter are really the only options for control - of one's diet that is.


making all the right choices can be the greatest accelerator of discomfort, of course doing the wrong things...at the wrong times also doesn't help any..and sorting through that mess can be difficult if you arn't doing anything consistantly

One size certainly doesn't fit all only for the reason that some folks can't sustain a certain way of eating that is conflicting with their motivation to deal with the physical/emotional/and thoughts released in amounts that are less then crisis.

If one recognizes that a sneeze is an expelation of existing toxins and NOT caused by external factors (stirred up perhaps by one thing or another good or bad(exertion) )...then any symptom that arises from lack of food or density, is merely just another expelation, not a lack of X, which is why the cleaner folks can go for long exertions, without gulping down 50 bananas in some green goup or whatnot.

This place

[www.nutritiondata.com]

says that 60g of parsley has 2g of protein.

[www.nutritiondata.com]

Does spirulina or klamath lake algae count as living vegan foods? Those are high in protein, and it doesn't take up a lot of volume to eat them. They aren't completely natural however, as spirulina as far as I know never appears so perfectly pure and dry in nature.