Ok. So there’s no question that we were ‘meant’ to eat raw 10,000 years ago.

What about today? 2007.

Our ancestors all ate cooked. Ancestor after ancestor after ancestor after ancestor….

Can evolution changed a species’ physiology/ eating habits?

Raw Foodist, Self Doubtist

Though I confess raw food feels heathier

Go with what you feel!

Evolution doesn't happen that fast. It takes millions of years, not 10,000 years.

So, I think are bodies are still designed to live optimally on raw food just like our ancestors of 10,000 years ago and the gorillas (who we are very similar to biologically) of today.

david wolfe said that when are bodies are so used to cooked and processed foods, juices and smoothies are often beneficial because they re-train our bodies to absorb raw food. So i think that sometimes our bodies may be used to cooked and processed and people often mistaken this as evolution. Our bodies have memories and get into habits but it is possible to retrain ourselves. Just like detox may be mistaken for thinking you need a hamburger.

I agree with bindiguurl

When I went to an eating disorder and nutrition clinic here in my city, I learned from the dieticians and nutritionists there that our body is very resiliant to whatever horrible mess we put it though.

We can retrain our bodies to eat properly and after having starved myself for so many months I slowly relearned and retrained my body into thinking of food as -good- again, slowly and surely I was able to eat more than tea and crackers each day. And my body slowly adjusted.

Our bodies will reset themselves. They're truly amazing things. I don't think 10,000 years of cooked food changes anything because of course during those 10,000 years we were still eating raw foods as well so we have still been getting 'what we need'.

Thats what I think.

If you want an example, look at the Inuit people. They eat mostly meat, seal meat and what not, yet if you look at the health and life expectancy of these people its very poor. Even though many meat and cooking positive people point out Inuits as proof that humans should eat meet, its really a bad example to be pointing to because osteoperosis/high cholesterol and all sorts of illness run rampant in mostly meat-eating societies of this planet.

So I think humans have not evolved to cook our food. As long as we're getting nutrition in our bodies from a wide variety of sources, our bodies can grow. Thats what I think.

*currently eating a fruit salad*

-=- Jay -=-

Nature is a wild and unpredictable master, yet certainly wiser than man by far.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2007 10:27AM by strangeseraph.

Yes, we did evolve to cooked, more meat, more fat, more starches (last 10k-50k years) than our remotest ancestors (last 450-490 K years). Our small and large intestine sizes are different now, our cecum function is highly reduced, our teeth are smaller, our faces more delicate, our bodies produce more enzymes to process (cooked) starches, etc.

It means we *can*.

It doesn't mean that we *should."

Evolution selects for reproductive success and not longevity. You can eat total garbage and make it past 45 which is when most women would have alrady reproduced.

But you are probably going to be more liketly to make it to 100 without cancer or heart disease or diabetes if you choose to limit or eliminate those foods.

Opinion:

-Some people believe that 'evolution' is a slow process.....or even non-existent. Moreover, some people believe that what we do as individuals has NO effect on re-setting patterns......or affects the patterns of future generations. I say that the adaptations that one becomes comfortable with now.....will set the trends for those future generations of animals, plants, people and society. BE those changes.....and encourage the dreams of partners and community........and we will wake up to a new dawn of consciousness creation.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

. I posted an article recently in which science DOES think we will evolve to eating Hostess cakes. Makes it a rather simple decision which model to follow, heh

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

. really the whole topic of evolution - for me - is just one big justification of our human mutation through genetic altering and spiritual deadening. Its about observing a linear reality of nature through our own gaze, and then applying it to what we already want to hear. So we can talk about how certain races have the ability to now process starch (which is a lie anyway) or eat spicy foods (because of an increased lining of the stomach with mucus) or how people that live at the equator have 'adapted' to accepting more damaging rays from the sun (when in fact they are simply healthier and require less "skin detox" from the ole SOL). Its also popular in the raw community to link our natural diet with that of apes..a (false IMO) justification which only goes so far and thus blinds folks from their true potential of consciousness, by locking them in to more systems and guidelines.

. that said, I think it is less important to focus on what our original or natural diets are, and focus more on the present. i.e eating what foods are appropriate for you right NOW in your transition..or in what you choose to be your fuel for YOUR dreams.

. as for the evolution/de-evolution thing...you can only reverse YOUR maze that has brought you to your current state of health.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2007 01:20PM by anaken.

damn...you guys are sharp

i really agree with strangeseraph ,like 100%, well said xxxxxxxx

. unfortunately I disagree with you strange:

. the idea of 'getting what we need' and "thriving through" the other crap is precisely what I'm arguing against. As health is about what one leaves OUT..its a practical impossibility (dietetically speaking: ignoring such things like joy and passion of course)

. its precisely this idea of 'health' which makes a label like SWD apply so generally without exaggeration, that basically ALL people no matter how much 'healthy' stuff they eat, are generally ALL eating the same crap that will lead to accumulation of internal deposits (gluten, processed starch, sugar, dairy etc..) and thus diet (unless it is very much abused in an almost hyperbolic degree) is usually less a factor in illness then lifestyle factors, state of mind etc...its quite a mystery to docs why some people get sick and others don't (of course they have no knowledge of symptoms being results of the attempted removal of internal wastes

. A simple example would be in taking someone on a SWD and removing all medications, stimulants and modern foods, in addition to the un-natural natural foods:meats, grains etc...and on to a diet of light fruits and greens...major detox will result, and continue until it is slowed down in one way or another.

. take an agrarian ancestor of ours (say 5,000 years ago) this would be effortless (if such a lifestyle was available, which we know - was probably not for whatever reasons)

. In other words..if we had evolved to eat crap, we wouldn't have any problems whatsoever going without crap..unless we in fact ADDICTED to it..mentally and physiologically ..to keep our bodies FROM detoxing.

. saying we evolved to eat cake or even millet or whatever, is like saying Keith Richards MIGHT evolve to shooting heroin without any ill effects. Of course its TRUE when observed from a certain angle, but its all a matter of what the body will tolerate by essentially giving up health.

. So yes, we now have the privilege, and knowledge, to make a proper diet, and lifestyle quite possible..by examining our errors in both respects.

. I do think we ARE "evolving" in the way that DavidZaneMason suggests, God knows how we've managed to get this far., and achieved the ability/consciousness to really move forward.


Heres some great relevant Morris Kroc quotes:

- "Man is suffocating, suffering and sinking, in a swampy sea of saturating, silting, sticky, slippery, sloppy slicks of sludgy slime."


- "Man will only to realize the truth about illness and health, something that has evaded him since the dawn of time and which he still has not accepted, by placing himself on a thorough internal elimination regime. It makes no difference what his illness is called and he can even be a so called healthy person. They will be shocked by the unceasing flow of unwanted toxic and slimy matter that is excreted from every aperture of their body."

- "In ten minutes you can eat so badly that you will become an invalid for a week."

My head hurts. ;-)

Very interesting stuff guys. I agree with you anaken, that humans have not evolved to eat cake. Our bodies have just learned how to deal with it - how to survive but not thrive.

What is your background? Sounds like you have a science background of some kind.

''God knows how we've managed to get this far., and achieved the ability/consciousness to really move forward. ''

THAT is a really good point and one with which i concur : )

Yes, I agree... I think people's bodies do what they can to deal with crap, like processed foods. Usually its the very young who think its ok, and its not hurting them because they don't yet have a full blown disease. I had problems with digesting fried foods, processed foods, spices, chocolate, coffee, juices(frozen or canned, but not fresh). I have been avoiding them for years, because its the only thing that helped. Taking pills only made the digestion problems worse.

Most people don't get this. The last time I mentioned my problem I heard the usual "all things in moderation". Certain things I just can't do in moderation. I think they think I am having judgements about what they are doing, but I am not.

I had some problem with dry eye, and I put hot compresses on my eyes. Once again, i heard the usual "...they have a pill for that". Just because they think its inconvient to do this twice a day. I think thats really strange. My dry eye has improved from going raw. In fact Im not sure I even have dry eye anymore.

I have just ended a S.A.D. summer. Although I was only 60% raw or so, I completely ate anything I wanted the last 4months or so. My body has done what it can to process the processed junk but I know that to be energized WITHOUT caffinated products ( green & iced tea, I don't do coffee), I must return to my progress in becoming a vegan, then in time 100% raw.

I don't have any major diseases, I'm 52, but I know I can be / feel healthier. I just had my 1st raw juice in 4 months (carrot, celery, apple). I know this will be my path. Thank God for this website & all the support.

Love is patient, love is kind, it is not self-seeking, love ALWAYS protects,always endures. (1corinthians 13)

God IS love!! (1john4)
Jesus Christ...... The ONLY way to Heaven.
I am the Way, the Truth & the Life..(John 14:6)

Welcome, joewood! I'm 52 also. Were you born in the great year of '55? If so, then by Chinese astrology we are both goats and we'll eat anything. lol

You might want to consider starting a journal on the Raw Diary forum. I look forward to following your journey!

Hi anaken, Victoria Boutenko looked at the diets of apes and that's how she decided she needed more greens in her diet because they eat a lot of greens. So, you think that is a bad basis for making that conclusion? I always like to learn from others, so I am interested in what you have to say. Also, do you have a science background? Sounds like you have a definite interest in that area.

Btw, kind of related, kind of not, I remember hearing how in some zoos they tried to save money and give some of the animals like the lions the leftovers from their restaurants - cooked steaks and things like that. Then they noticed those animals getting sick so they switched to raw meat and they all got healthy again. Maybe we can't compare our diet in detail to other animals, but the fact that we are the only species on the planet that eats cooked food (except for our pets, who are getting sick too - one out of 4 dogs die of cancer now) definitely points to something being wrong with our diet, I think.

If we have evolved to deal with a cooked diet, it is to endure it only. Our bodies first priority is survival, not health. Just some random thoughts that popped into my head. ;-)

. I like to think everyone has something to offer, but no..I don't think Victoria Boutenko has any credibility to her ideas, or consistency for that matter. For one, she is a hygienist, yet is consistently looking for 'cures'. If hygiene is your thing...there are plenty of more committed and consistent practitioners. To me, a 'green smoothy' is just a grouping of dense/complex matter (although nutritious) that drains nerve energy, which I can see slowing down or suppressing detox symptoms (nothing wrong with that of course, most folks NEED to be slowing down detox) but that is how I see it.


. animals have different stomachs and produce/secrete different enzymes then US, that is all one needs to know. So many their diet is composed of raw meats, or starchy tubers, or insects, or just plants, or mostly fruits. I think its fine to make comparisons with animals, just not as proofs as what a human beings (potentially vibrating at a much different wavelength) need to pay attention to. We can certainly learn from the animal kingdom (observing a deer fasting or a monkey clearing parasites or something) Just not create systems of knowledge based on what we believe is objective data. The world is a synchronous place where isolating elements or rules or programs only gets one so far!

. sure..I based alot of my previous knowledge building..on accumulating empirical evidence to base my entire reality around...I certainly am much happier now NOT having that need, although I'm sure it has framed the way I speak! haha.

. I like the word: 'endure'. It very much implies a different future! My main point is that it takes alot of energy and work to adapt to something unhealthful. certainly it cxan be done, and is quite amazing, but removing that ability, that extra layer of fat, or mucus, or even having a sizable stomach! will lead to increased health, and less dependence on what one requires to thrive.