smoothie Wrote:
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> i am so confused now.... i am more concerned with
> getting thru this transition in one piece than
> being 100% techinically correct or with
> nutritionally contraversial data,
i am more concerned with doing it
> as safely and painlessly
> as possible...therefore, if i try eating oats what
> sort should they be please?
>
> i appreciate your adding to this thread very much
> but i feel it became a jargon competition and what
> i need it practical help!!!

Smoothie:

It's good that you are trying to take the 'right' steps in your transition process. However, there is no absolute 100% 'written in stone' steps to take neither during this phase nor after you've made it through your individual transition. There are different perspectives and differing personal philosophical viewpoints and ultimately it will be up to you to decide what works for you.

So even if an item is not raw and you choose to eat it while you continue to increase the amount of living/uncooked items you are not violating any rules or commiting a crime--unless you ascribe to a view that eating an item, in this case oatmeal, is improper during this phase.

Back to what I believe you were asking about in your original post, the general view of raw foodists regarding oats is that they are not raw, because they've been exposed to heat considered destructive to enzymes. If so, why is it in a 'raw' recipe? Guess what, from time to time you'll see items that not raw included among the ingredients in some recipes, even among those in books of so-called 100% raw-food leaders.

So, can you eat oats? If you want to. You will not be considered a raw food violator if you do (at least not from my own philosophy)

Wishing you vibrant health

smoothie,

I thought you might find this article helpful [www.karenskitchen.com]. And maybe this article [www.vegsource.com].

At the end of the day, don't listen to us. Listen to how you feel and where you are in your transition to raw foods. Most of us don't do it perfectly at first and that is not the point.

I mean think about it, you are worrying about whether or not to eat oatmeal where maybe you used to worry about whether to have cake and ice cream for dessert. What an improvement, right?

Take care and good luck with your journey.

I read some introductory bits of "Grain Damage" by Doug Graham and found it to be questionable in its accuracy, so I was turned off from reading any further. I'm not sure that book should be heralded as any authority on the matter of grains.

I think grains will be important in the diets of some people. They certainly are important for me. For breakfast I definitely PREFER the taste of grains to fruit. Often I look at fruit and it bores me, I really have to crave fruit in order to enjoy it. Fruit feels like a dietary staple I've grown up with that I just never could really get into.

I do eat fruit, but I def can't do raw without grains. If I try to do raw without grains, then I have to get those calories from fruit, and my body just says no to that.

sunshine79, that's cool that you are listening to your body.

Can you share a typical day's food for you? I would be interested, since fruit still plays havoc with my blood sugars.

Also, Doug Graham doesn't seem to realize this, but alot of grains ARE technically fruits. Quinoa, for example. Also any grain that contains within it the seed, is botanically, a FRUIT.

Jesus said to eat sprouted grains, fruits etc. - he didn't say you should only eat mangoes or anything like that.

I agree with Brendan that there is something about fructose that for some people may not be tolerable in large quantities.

Of course if you live someplace sunny and exercise alot, then most likely all of your diet will be fruit.

There is no such thing as grains vs. fruit. Just pick whichever one suits your current lifestyle, environment, etc.

karennd Wrote:
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> sunshine79, that's cool that you are listening to
> your body.
>
> Can you share a typical day's food for you? I
> would be interested, since fruit still plays havoc
> with my blood sugars.


Hi Karen,

Sure. For breakfast I eat a combination of spelt, rye, and millet, mixed with either unsweetened carob or raw kimchee or nuts & seeds. Then when I get hungry I eat bell peppers or cucumbers, followed by a green juice. Then towards the evening is when I crave fruit, I just eat whatever kind is around, and I eat fruit for the rest of the night until I don't crave it anymore. If I'm still hungry at that point yet I don't crave fruit, then I eat something with fat, like an avocado.

I want to learn all about sprouting grains so I don't have to eat them cooked. I do notice quite a difference between sprouted grains and cooked grains. But given the option of eating cooked grains or more fruit than feels right, I'll opt for the grains, even if they're cooked.

When I lift weights, though, I eat alot more fruit, I really crave it then - so I think diet has follow our habits and activities.

I agree with you, there is something about fruit and blood sugar.

A very comprehensive resource on sprouting grains & nuts & seeds - they give very detailed instructions, which is great for a non-gardener like me:

www.thesproutpeople.com

Come to think of it though, sprouted grains were horrible on my blood sugars too. I forgot that, because it had been so long.

Maybe I will try again, someday. Thanks for sharing though.

. hmm...not that i'm dissing sprouts...or defending DG, but the idea that grains are fruits is just incorrect

. life you can squeeze water from

. grains/seeds are potential life.

. perhaps one might transition better then on another, and good points depending on the individual or environment, or internal environment...

. but lets be honest here, especially about the truth of how grains interact in the organism. just because something slows down discomfort or uneasyness or spaciness, doesn't mean its the most healthful thing, or that things are 'peachy' prior this or that dietary move.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2007 05:04PM by anaken.

Grains ARE fruits.

From "Wayne's Word" by W.P. Armstrong, An Online Textbook of Natural History:

c. Grain or Caryopsis:

"A very small, dry, one-seeded, indehiscent fruit in which the actual seed coat is completely fused to the ovary wall or pericarp. The outer pericarp layer or husk is referred to as the bran, while the inner, seed layer is called the germ. This is the characteristic fruit of the large grass family (Gramineae or Poaceae). The grain is truly a fruit (not a seed) because it came from a separate ripened ovary within the grass inflorescence."

www.waynesword.palomar.edu/fruitid1.htm

_______________________________________________

From Wikipedia:

In botany, a caryopsis is a type of simple dry fruit — one that is monocarpelate (formed from a single carpel) and indehiscent (not opening at maturity) and resembles an achene, except that in a caryopsis the pericarp is fused with the thin seed coat.

The caryopsis is popularly called a grain and is the fruit typical of the family Poaceae (or Gramineae), such as wheat, rice, and corn.

The term grain is also used in a more general sense as synonymous with cereal (as in "cereal grains", which include some non-Gramineae). Considering that the fruit wall and the seed are intimately fused into a single unit, and the caryopsis or grain is a dry fruit, it is not surprising that in general usage little concern is given to technically separating the terms "fruit" and "seed" in these plant structures. In many grains, the "hulls" to be separated before processing are actually flower bracts.

Retrieved from "[en.wikipedia.org];
_______________________________________________

If you want more, just google "botany caryopsis grains fruit" and you will find a wealth of information.

fresh Wrote:
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> first it requires that you are all raw for a
> while. eating cooked disturbs the equation.
>
> thirdly, eating the typical foods that
> bodybuilders eat which are stimulative and
> irritating, these foods will tend to cause the
> muscles and other body tissues to retain water to
> dilute the toxicity. this will give the
> appearance of fullness.

I eat all raw. The only difference is I get my primary carb source from oats, and I eat raw bison (top round, free range, organic), raw free range organic eggs, and raw wild Alaskan salmon. I don't consume much meat because I get most of the protein I need through oats. I do consume fruit, but I do not go all out. I consume 1 serving on average per meal (so about 6-9 pieces per day). I eat tons of raw organic veggies (mostly dark green veggies so I don't have to count the carbs). I also consume healthy oils in small amounts. I used to sprout other grains, but my body never digested them, so I stuck with just oats. I also consume some supplements like aged garlic, ginseng extract, coral calcium, boron, and a multi-vitamin.

smoothie,

Eating raw oatmeal is a fine transitional foods. And there are grains that you can sprout that you may like. For myself, I started out with these foods, but over time my taste for them fell away. If these foods work for you, then enjoy them. One thing I notice about people who eat grains is that they need to flavor them, very few people just eat a meal of only plain grains. With fruits and vegetables, they can be enjoyed without the addition of flavoring (well, at least the fruits and vegetables that I am eating).

Here's how you can tell what a good food for you is. Suppose you pick a raw food "X". Could you eat only X for an entire day and feel pretty good at the end of the day? If the answer is yes, then that is good food for you. If the answer is no, then it may be that food is a remnant of the cooked food world, and might not be such a great food for you. Of course, if you can eat this same raw food X an entire week and still feel great, then this food is probably a very excellent food.

Can someone please provide some links to raw unprocessed oat groats? I'm having some difficulty locating them. Thanks

[www.youtube.com]

agreed with Bryan on every point here.

Fine for transition

However, 1. very hard to find RAW (truly) and 2. I dont eat grains

I would rather continue with me 2-3kg fruit each day then sit down to a bowl of oatmeal-- however it has taken me a year to get to this point.

So.. in conclusion-- whatever helps you on your journey and transition to YOUR GOALS is most important. Not what anyone else thinks.

helo..
Yes, one of the things I missed was my muesli which kept me fuelled for hours...
substitute groats... unhulled oats... and soak overnight or longer... also soak any nuts, seeds or dried fruit to go with it and add chopped fresh fruit as you like...
Thinley