There seems to be some confusion regarding this topic.

Raw foodist 101 - What is a fruit? Knowing this should make our food choices much easier to figure out.

Grains are fruits, so are peppers, pea pods, cucumbers, etc.

I've pasted one complete listing of fruits below (from waynesword.palomar.edu/fruitid1.htm):


FRUIT IDENTIFICATION OUTLINE:

I. Simple Fruits: A single ripened ovary from a single flower.

A. Fleshy Fruits: All of most of the ovary wall (pericarp) is soft or fleshy at maturity.

1. Berry: Entire pericarp is fleshy, although skin is sometimes tough; may be one or many seeded. E.g. grape, tomato, papaya, pomegranate, sapote, persimmon, guava, banana and avocado. The latter two fruits are often termed baccate (berry-like). [The banana fruit is a seedless, parthenocarpic berry developing without pollination and fertilization. In the pomegranate, the edible part is the fleshy layer (aril) around each seed.] For photos of many of these berries, look them up by common name in the Wayne's Word Index.

2. Pepo: Berry with a hard, thick rind; typical fruit of the gourd family (Cucurbitaceae). E.g. watermelon, cucumber, squash, cantelope and pumpkin.


The Remarkable World Of Gourds

3. Hesperidium: Berry with a leathery rind and parchment-like partitions between sections; typical fruit of the citrus family (Rutaceae). E.g. orange, lemon, grapefruit, tangelo and kumquat.


See Article About Hesperidiums

4. Drupe: Fleshy fruit with hard inner layer (endocarp or stone) surrounding the seed. E.g. peach, plum, nectarine, apricot, cherry, olive, mango and almond. Some botanists also include the fruits of walnuts, pecans, date palms, macadamia nuts, pistachio nuts, tung oil and kukui nuts as drupes because of their outer, green, fleshy husk and stony, seed-bearing endocarp. These latter fruits are also called drupaceous nuts. The coconut is considered a dry drupe with a green, waterproof outer layer (exocarp), a thick, buoyant, fibrous husk (mesocarp) and a hard, woody, inner layer (endocarp) surrounding the large seed. The actual seed embryo is embedded in the coconut meat (endosperm). Nutrient-rich coconut milk is liquid endosperm that has not formed firm tissue with cell walls. [There is considerable disagreement among authorities about the classification of some of these fruits. For example, the California Macadamia Society considers the macadamia nut to be a follicle. See section B-1 below under dry, dehiscent fruits.]

Note: A number of so-called nuts are probably better placed in the drupe category. This is especially true of the walnut family (Juglandaceae), although some older references still consider these fruits to be nuts. In hickory & pecan (Carya) the outer husk or shuck splits into four valves, exposing the hard, indehiscent nut . According to many botanists, the outer husk is part of the pericarp, and the hard, inner layer surrounding the seed is the endocarp; therefore, these fruits are technically drupes or drupaceous nuts. Walnut & butternut (Juglans), two additional members of the walnut family (Juglandaceae), have similar drupe-like fruits. The outer green husk resembles the outer pericarp (exocarp and mesocarp) of a drupe. For this reason, walnuts are sometimes referred to as dry drupes, and the hard shell surrounding the seed is considered to be the endocarp layer as in coconuts. In true nuts, the hard, indehiscent layer surrounding the seed is the entire ovary wall or pericarp, and the outer husk is composed of involucral tissue that is not part of the ovary wall or pericarp. According to most botanical references, the outer green layer (husk) of the walnut is part of the pericarp and the hard shell surrounding the seed is really the endocarp. Therefore, walnuts and pecans probably fit the dry drupe category rather than a true nut. Some authors elegantly avoid this dilemma by calling these fruits drupe-like or "drupaceous nuts."


Go To Article About Fruits Called Nuts

5. Pome: Ovary or core surrounded by edible, fleshy receptacle tissue (hypanthium or fleshy floral tube) that is really not part of the pericarp. The actual ovary or core is usually not eaten, at least by most humans. This is typical fruit of certain members of the rose family (Rosaceae), including apple, pear, quince and loquat.


Go To Article About Fruits Of The Rosaceae



B. Dry Fruits: Pericarp dry at maturity.
1. Dehiscent Dry Fruits: Pericarp splits open along definite seams.
a. Legume: An elongate "bean pod" splitting along two seams; typical fruit of the third largest plant family, the legume family (Leguminosae or Fabaceae). The pod represents one folded modified leaf or carpel that is fused along the edges. E.g. black locust, redbud, acacia, coral tree, orchid tree, wisteria and many more genera. Note: Some legume fruits are indehiscent, including the carob tree, mesquite and honey locust. In addition, some legume fruits are oblong, rounded, kidney-shaped (reniform), or coiled (spiral-shaped), such as sweet clover (Melilotus alba and M. officinalis), black medic (Medicago lupulina), bur clover (M. polymorpha) and alfalfa (M. sativa). Some specialized legume fruits (called loments) break apart into indehiscent one-seeded joints. A good example of a loment is the very effective hitchhiker called stick-tights or beggar's-ticks (Desmodium cuspidatum).

See Hitchhiking Loments Attached To Socks
See The Slender Loments Of Crown Vetch

b. Silique: A slender, dry, dehiscent fruit that superficially resemble a legume, except the mustard silique is composed of two carpels with a partition or septum down the center (i.e. between the two carpels or valves). [The legume fruit is composed of a single carpel and does not have the central partition or septum.] This is the typical fruit of the mustard family (Cruciferae or Brassicaceae). E.g. field mustard, turnip and cabbage (Brassica species), stock (Mathiola), wallflower (Erysimum) and London rocket (Sisymbrium). The silicle is a shortened (less elongate) version of a silique, including sweet alyssum (Lobularia), peppergrass (Lepidium) and shepherd's purse (Capsella). [Note: As with legumes there are a few exceptions to the typical form of siliques and silicles. In wild radish (Raphanus) the silique does not split lengthwise, but instead it breaks transversely into several seed-bearing joints. In lace pod (Thysanocarpus) the silicles are indehiscent.]


See Siliques & Silicles Of The Mustard Family

c. Capsule: Seed pod splits open is various ways and usually along several definite seams. Capsules typically split open into well-defined sections or carpels which represent modified leaves. This is a very common dry fruit found in many different plant families. E.g. Catalpa, Jacaranda, Pittosporum, Aesculus, Agave, Yucca, Eucalyptus, devil's claw (Proboscidea), floss silk tree (Chorisia), kapok tree (Ceiba) and castor bean (Ricinus communis). Capsules may split open along the locules (loculicidal), along the septa (septicidal), through pores (poricidal), or the entire top of the capsule separates as a single lid-like section (circumscissile). A common landscaping tree in southern California called the golden-rain tree (Koelreuteria) produces bladder-like capsules that are loculicidally dehiscent into three valves. The opium poppy (Papaver somniferum) produces a classic poricidal capsule in which the tiny seeds fall out of the pore-like windows as the capsule shakes in the wind. The edible weed called purslane (Portulaca) has a many-seeded circumscissile capsule. The Mexican jumping bean (Sebastiana pavoniana) produces a 3-carpellate capsule, each carpel bearing a seed. Sometimes the carpel is occupied by a special moth larva that eats the seed and moves its one-room carpel container by contorting and hurling its body. In the liquidambar tree (Liquidambar styraciflua) the globose fruiting heads are composed of numerous tiny capsules, each bearing one or two winged seeds and a number of aborted ovules (immature seeds). It should be noted here that some capsules are indehiscent. Their carpels do not separate and release the seeds. Two examples of plants with indehiscent capsules are the South African baobab tree (Adansonia digitata) and two species of South African gardenias (Gardenia thunbergii and G. volkensii). The seed pods of South African gardenias are chewed opened by large herbivores, and the seeds are dispersed in their feces.


Capsule Cluster Of Liquidambar Tree
See Circumscissile Capsule Of Purslane
See Exploding Capsules Of Witch Hazel
See Article About Mexican Jumping Beans
Devil's Claws: Amazing Hitchhiking Capsules
Opium Poppy Capsule: Source Of Raw Opium
Indehiscent Capsules of South African Baobab
Indehiscent Capsules of South African Gardenias

d. Follicle: A single ripened ovary (representing a single modified leaf or carpel) that splits open along one seam. The follicle may occur singly (as in milkweed) or in clusters: two in oleander, 2-5 in peony, 3 in larkspur, 5 in columbine and 4-5 in bottle tree (Sterculia or Brachychiton). The cone-like fruit of the magnolia tree is an aggregate of many small follicles, each containing a single bright red seed. The term apocarpous refers to flowers with separate and distinct carpels, such as delphiniums and columbines of the buttercup family (Ranunculaceae). Although it also belongs to the buttercup family, the fused (syncarpous) carpels of Nigella form a many-seeded capsule.


Parachute Seeds Of The Milkweed
Follicles Of Scarlet Larkspur & Peony
Follicle Of The Indian Almond (Sterculia)
Follicles Of The Primitive Magnolia Family



2. Indehiscent Dry Fruits: Pericarp does not split open. These fruits usually contain only one seed.
a. Achene: Very small, one-seeded fruit, usually produced in clusters. At maturity the pericarp is dry and free from the internal seed, except at the placental attachment. This is the typical fruit of the largest plant family, the sunflower family (Compositae or Asteraceae). Examples of this type of fruit include the sunflower (Helianthus), buttercup (Ranunculus) and sycamore (Platanus). In the sycamore, the globose fruiting heads are composed of tiny, one-seeded achenes interspersed with hairs (some authors refer to these individual fruits as nutlets). [The globose heads of the liquidambar tree are actually composed of numerous tiny capsules.]

See Minute Achenes Of Dwarf Fluffweed
See Achenes Of The Buckwheat Family
See Achenes Of The Sunflower Family
See Parachute Achenes Of Dandelions

b. Anthocarp: In the four o'clock family (Nyctaginaceae), individual apetalous flowers have a tubular, petaloid calyx that resembles a sympetalous corolla. The lower portion of the calyx tightly enwraps the one-seeded achene and is persistent around the fruit as an anthocarp. The calyx base plus the enclosed seed-bearing achene is the unit of dispersal. In some members of the Nyctaginaceae, the persistent calyx base bears sticky glandular projections that aid in dispersal by adhering to the bodies of animals. This is especially true in pisonia trees (Pisonia umbellifera) in which the numerous glutinous anthocarps stick to the feathers of seabirds. This is an effective method of dispersal to distant atolls and islands of the South Pacific region. Sometimes a hapless seabird is completely covered by clusters of the sticky anthocarps, to the point where flight is difficult or impossible. Unable to remove the water-resistant, glue-like anthocarps from its feathers, the seabird drowns in the surf and is consumed by ravenous beach crabs.


See Anthocarp Of Desert San Verbena
See Flower Branch Of The Pisonia Tree

c. Grain or Caryopsis: A very small, dry, one-seeded, indehiscent fruit in which the actual seed coat is completely fused to the ovary wall or pericarp. The outer pericarp layer or husk is referred to as the bran, while the inner, seed layer is called the germ. This is the characteristic fruit of the large grass family (Gramineae or Poaceae). The grain is truly a fruit (not a seed) because it came from a separate ripened ovary within the grass inflorescence. This is the number one source of food for people on the earth. E.g. Corn (maize), wheat, rice, rye, barley, oats, Johnson grass, Bermuda grass and many more species. In corn grains, the main white material that explodes when the grains are heated is endosperm tissue within the seed. Pressure (water vapor) builds up within the grains until they literally explode.


Photos Of Cereal Grasses
Job's Tears & Corn (Maize)
Wind Dispersal Of Grasses (1)
Wind Dispersal Of Grasses (2)
Bamboo: Remarkable Giant Grass

d. Schizocarp: A small dry fruit composed of two or more sections that break apart; however, each section or carpel (also called a mericarp) remains indehiscent and contains a single seed. Because the seed-bearing sections or carpels (called mericarps) do not split open, this type of fruit is usually placed under indehiscent dry fruits. This is the characteristic fruit of the carrot family (Umbelliferae or Apiaceae). E.g. Carrot (Daucus), celery (Apium) and sweet fennel (Foeniculum vulgare). Other examples of schizocarps include filaree or stork's bill (Erodium) and cheeseweed (Malva), two common weeds in southern California. In these weeds, the seed-bearing carpels (mericarps) separate from each other, but remain indehiscent. Gynoecium is a collective term for the carpels of a flower. Biologists commonly refer to this floral unit as a pistil. Monocarpous flowers are composed of one carpel (a simple pistil). The terms apocarpous and syncarpous refer to compound pistils composed of more than one carpel. Apocarpous flowers contain two or more distinct carpels. In syncarpous flowers, two or more carpels are fused together. In cheeseweed, the carpels are attached to a central, conical connection stalk, but separate from this stalk at maturity. Some authors consider the fruit of the maple (Acer) to be a schizocarp because it splits into two indehiscent, seed-bearing carpels; however, because of the wing on each seed-bearing carpel, other botanists refer to maple fruits as double samaras (see the samara fruit).

One of the most painful schizocarps is the puncture vine (Tribulus terrestris). When dry, the spiny fruit splits into indehiscent, seed-bearing sections (carpels). The spines of each section are arranged so that one is always facing upward, like the medieval weapon called a caltrop. The spiny, seed-bearing burs readily penetrate bare feet, shoes and rubber tires.


See Schizocarps & Mericarps Of Fennel
More Schizocarps: Filaree & Cheeseweed
See The Ubiquitous & Painful Puncture Vine

e. Samara: Small, winged, one-seeded fruit, usually produced in clusters on trees. E.g. Maple (Acer): a double samara, ash (Fraxinus), elm (Ulmus) and tree of heaven (Ailanthus). Samaras resemble the winged seeds of a pine, but they are truly one-seeded fruits with a pericarp layer surrounding the seed. The leguminous tipu tree (Tipuana tipu) has a winged fruit that certainly resembles a samara even though it belongs to the legume family (Leguminosae or Fabaceae). Like auto-rotation of helicopters, the samaras spin as they sail through the air, an effective method of dispersal.


See Samaras Of Box Elder & Maple
See The Winged Fruits Of Tipu Tree
See The Winged Fruits Of Ash Tree

f. Nut: Larger, one-seeded fruit with very hard pericarp, usually enclosed in a husk or cup-like involucre.

(1) Acorn of oak (Quercus): The actual nut sits in a cup-shaped involucre of imbricate (overlapping) scales.
(2) Chestnut (Castanea), beech (Fagus) & chinquapin (Castanopsis): One or more nuts sit in a spiny, cup-shaped involucre.

(3) Hazelnut or filbert (Corylus): Nut sits in a leafy (C. americana) or tubular (C. cornuta) involucre.

(4) Walnut (Juglans) and pecan (Carya) are placed in the drupe category (section A-4) above, although some botanists maintain that they are true nuts. In true nuts, the hard, indehiscent layer surrounding the seed is the entire ovary wall or pericarp, and the outer husk is composed of involucral tissue that is not part of the ovary wall or pericarp. According to most botanical references, the outer green layer (husk) of the walnut is part of the pericarp and the hard shell surrounding the seed is really the endocarp. Therefore, walnuts and pecans probably fit the dry drupe category rather than a true nut. Other authorities claim that the walnut husk is composed of involucral tissue, perianth and an outer layer of pericarp, but is not totally derived from the pericarp. Because the "shell" is the inner pericarp wall, the walnut should be classified as a true nut. However, since the walnut husk contains pericarp tissue (at least in part), and is not entirely derived from involucral (non-pericarp) tissue, Wayne's Word considers the walnut to be drupaceous rather than a true, undisputed nut. Remember that scientific knowledge is constantly being scrutinized and changed, and the exact classification of dubious, borderline fruits such as the walnut are open for review and modification.


According to "The Morphology of the Flowers of the Juglandaceae" by W.E. Manning (1940), American Journal of Botany 27 (10): 839-852, the fruits of Juglans and Carya are drupe-like but not a true drupe or dry drupe. The fruit is sometimes called a "tryma" but can be described as a nut. Webster's Third New International Dictionary describes a tryma as a nutlike drupe (as the fruit of the walnut or hickory) in which the epicarp (exocarp) and mesocarp separate as a somewhat fleshy or leathery rind from the hard 2-valved endocarp.

Note: Brazil nuts are seeds produced in a large, woody capsule. Cashews are nuts with a hard shell that is removed before shipment to food stores. The cashew "nut" (drupaceous nut) is produced at the summit of a fleshy receptacle called the "cashew apple." Pine nuts are actually gymnosperm seeds produced in a woody, ovuliferous seed cone. The peanut (Arachis hypogea) is actually a seed with a papery seed coat, typically two seeds enclosed in a dehiscent pod called a legume. After fertilization, the flower stalk of the peanut curves downward, and the developing fruit (legume) is forced into the ground by the proliferation and elongation of cells under the ovary. The peanut pod subsequently develops underground. For more fruits called "nuts" refer to the above section A-4 about drupes and drupaceous nuts.


Go To Article About Fruits Called Nuts
Photos of Cashews And Brazil Nuts
See Photos of the Peanut Plant



g. Utricle: Small, bladderlike, thin-walled, one-seeded, indehiscent fruit. Although it is seldom seen by casual observers, this is the characteristic fruit of the duckweed family (Lemnaceae). The dehiscent one-seeded fruits of Amaranthus (Amaranthaceae) are often called circumscissile utricles because the top half of the fruit separates, exposing a shiny black seed.

See Wolffia Utricles: World's Smallest Fruit

Note: Wayne's Word contains a lot of additional information about the remarkable duckweed family (Lemnaceae), the undisputed world's smallest flowering plants. Just click on the green Lemnaceae tab for a complete index to articles and photos.




II. Aggregate Fruits: A cluster or aggregation of many ripened ovaries (fruits) produced from a single flower. In blackberries and raspberries (Rubus), the individual fruits are tiny, one-seeded drupes or drupelets. Since all the seed-bearing ovaries (carpels) form a fused cluster, the fruit is also called a syncarp. In strawberries (Fragaria), the individual fruits are tiny, one-seeded achenes imbedded in a sweet, fleshy receptacle. Another term for an aggregate cluster of ovaries all derived from a single flower is the "etaerio." In fact, a rose hip (Rosa) eaten as an entire fruit could be considered an etaerio of achenes enclosed by a fleshy receptacle. Fruits of the genus Annona (Annonaceae), including the sugar apple (A. squamosa), cherimoya (A. cherimola), custard apple (A. reticulata) and soursop (A. muricata) resemble large fleshy berries with scales or projections on the outer surface. They are actually composed of many ovaries fused together and are technically aggregate fruits called syncarps. They are not multiple fruits because they develop from a single flower bearing many pistils (carpels).

See Photo Of A Fresh Rose Hip
Go To Blackberries & Strawberries

III. Multiple Fruits: A cluster of many ripened ovaries (fruits) produced by the coalescence of many flowers crowded together in the same inflorescence, typically surrounding a fleshy stem axis. E.g. mulberry, osage orange, pineapple, breadfruit and jackfruit. In the mulberry (Morus), the individual fruits are tiny drupes called drupelets. In the pineapple (Ananas), the individual fruits are berries imbedded in a fleshy, edible stem, each berry subtended by a jagged-edged bract where the original flower was attached. The fleshy spadix of Monstera deliciosa is also a multiple fruit because it is derived from numerous, tightly-packed female flowers. Another term for multiple fruits composed of a fleshy spike or raceme of tightly packed ovaries is the sorosis.

Note: Fig trees (Ficus) produce an edible multiple fruit called a syconium. It is a fleshy, flask-shaped structure (inflorescence) lined on the inside with numerous female flowers, each forming a tiny, one-seeded drupelet. Seed formation requires a symbiotic wasp that enters the syconium and pollinates the female flowers. Smyrna and California-grown Calimyrna figs require wasp pollination. Other fig varieties will produce edible, seedless, parthenocarpic syconia without pollination. This is a very complex and fascinating story that is discussed in several Wayne's Word articles. Look up "fig" under the blue index tab for more information.


Go To Article & Photos Of Pineapples
See Jackfruit, Breadfruit & Osage Orange
See The Amazing Calimyrna Fig & Its Wasp
Flowers & Multiple Fruit (Syncarp) Of Mulberry

Miscellaneous Notes On Fruit Types: Some trees produce seeds and pollen in separate inflorescences called catkins or aments. This includes monoecious species with both male and female catkins on the same tree; and dioecious species with separate male and female trees. In birch (Betula) and alder (Alnus), the seeds (nutlets) are produced in a woody, cone-like catkin. In other trees, such as oak (Quercus), only pollen is produced in the catkins.

In true cone-bearing trees, the immature seeds (ovules) are borne at the surface of ovuliferous scales instead of enclosed within an a ovary as in flowering plants. Because the ovules are exposed to the wind-blown pollen during the pollination period, these trees are referred to as gymnosperms (which means naked seeds). The ovuliferous scales collectively form a woody seed cone sealed with sticky resin. At maturity (in one or two years depending on the species), the scales dry and separate from each other, thus releasing the winged seeds. In junipers (Juniperus) the scales are fleshy and fused together, and the seed cones superficially resemble berries. In the maidenhair tree (Ginkgo biloba), fern pine (Podocarpus), and the California nutmeg (Torreya californica), the large seed with a fleshy outer coat is borne naked on the branchlets. In the yew tree (Taxus) the naked seed is borne in a fleshy, cup-like structure called an aril.


See Podocarpus, California Nutmeg & Pacific Yew

__________________________________________

Here's another link, this one has some pictures:

scidiv.bcc.ctc.edu/rkr/biology203/labs/pdfs/FruitLab.pdf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2007 08:27PM by sunshine79.

It all sounds pretty good! So let's bring on the pericarp!

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

. I don't think there is much (confusion)

. if you had on a shelf: a slice of watermelon, a whole un-peeled orange, a cucumber, a rank durian, a bag of rice, and a block of wood. explained to a bunch of aliens what the common main characterstics of fruit were: what they usually looked like, tasted like, grew like, etc... they would probably choose them as fruits in that order.

. just because something has a botanical grouping (which is just made up anyway) doesn't mean the characteristics are the same..and certainly doesn't prove in any way that something is food for humans (at the same time it doesn't disprove either, making a potential case for grains possible. I hope it doesn't seem as if i'm arguing THAT here).

. fruits generally speaking are 'pre-digested' grains are not. there are countless other differences, just like all squids, octopus, cuttlefish, and the nautilus are all "Cephalopods" yet they look and behave very differently. all but the nautilus live very short lifespans (< 2 years). the nautilus lives like 20 and havn't changed in millions of years.

. its almost physically impossible to overeat watermellon, yet an overdose of any grain could certainly kill you, and grain consumption HAS been linked to 8 zillion health problems so for some, seeing any grain as an 'inferior' food does make sense. Not saying its right, it just seems like correct logic. Not saying what folks should eat or not, just saying that these kind of distinctions or lecturing etc... are not useful, or informative, or even supportive of others.

I'm gonna repost what I wrote in the other thread, because I find a 'better' empirical way at deciding to what constitutes 'living food'


. life you can squeeze water from

. grains/seeds are potential life.

. perhaps one might transition better then on another, depending on the individual or environment, or internal environment...

. but lets be honest here, especially about the truth of how grains interact in the organism. just because something slows down discomfort or uneasiness or spaciness, doesn't mean its the most healthful thing, or that things are 'peachy' prior to this or that dietary move.

anaken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> grains/seeds are potential life.
>
>

Like nuts, grains contain a protective element. If a person is walking in a meadow and sees these things sprouting, they are no less optimal to eat than a mango and no less of a fruit.

A fruit is simply something which contains within it the seed.

Your alien analogy is just weird. That's like deciding that a tomato isn't a fruit just because most folks wouldn't recognize it as one.

sunshine79,

Here's the real question: If a person is shipwrecked on a deserted island with no fire, are they going to be happier if the island is covered with wheat fields ready to be harvested or the island is covered with watermelon fields ready to be harvested?

Humans do not have the capacity to eat the raw wheat grains. However, eating a raw watermelon is no problem.

Being from Phila, Pa I must say I would rather have the watermelon. The season for them is almost over here. I love the melon family. Oh well, apples are always in & with the fall comes figs & cranberries. These will be my transitional foods as well as raw greens & grains.

Love is patient, love is kind, it is not self-seeking, love ALWAYS protects,always endures. (1corinthians 13)

God IS love!! (1john4)
Jesus Christ...... The ONLY way to Heaven.
I am the Way, the Truth & the Life..(John 14:6)

I have to admit that I don't "get" a lot of people's mentality when it comes to raw food. It is kind of irksome that so many want to argue their point as if it's the "right" way to do things. Many people use some odd logic to try and prove their stance. I have heard several people use great ape primate diets as juice for their point of view. others use kind of a "whatever is the most watery food naturally occuring" kind of stance. Some say that fats are the woes of humankind and others say that it's too much fruit consumption. Isn't there some sort of middle ground? I mean, as far back as the essenes they were touting on the medicinal or mind enlightening affects of soaked/sprouted wheat. Great apes don't only eat fruit but also eat leaves, shoots, fungi, bark, insects and occasionally meat. I know that a varied diet will always yeild better effects than a diet consisting of only a few items, nutritionally speaking, but I don't know if I would consider any one way the right way. I have read and seen too many cases where people suffered from deficiencies related to diet.

I hear you Rankdurian. There doesn't HAVE to be any confusion (or very little) just do some research....make the choices/decisions/commitments that YOU think are great.....and best. Set small goals and shoot for the ones that you are really MOTIVATED to pursue.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

. hmm, I would say if you explained what a fruit was very well (to the aliens) then the tomato would have been selected between the orange and the cucumber (I would think)

. also I think walking along and finding an abundance of sprouts would be rare (again, I don't think this is the end-all be-all of disproving sprout or grain consumption) But - TO ME - at that point it is considered a 'green' anyway. they are at least marketed by the farmers as 'Micro-Greens'. just like Amaranth the plant will have (semi) edible leaves in full fruition, perhaps a single edible sprout while growing. and 1000 edible seeds (grains) that would have to be cooked, or cultivated into their own sprouts to be edible. Never in the process would they be as sustaining (without other sources of food or water) then a mango.


. Grains ARE less of a fruit then a mango. It doesn't matter if scientifically they are all in the same grouping - hence my mollusk comparison. The 'alien' point was to illustrate that grains have LESS characteristics that people would commonly associate with fruits. I would say a tomato in the same vein is less of a fruit for our everyday usage of the term. If someone says they eat lots of fruit, they arn't referring to a tomato based diet. if someone eats tons of tomatoes, and greens, and very little or no sweet fruits I would say they eat a vegetable based diet. its more helpful to use terms that are accurate and realistic to the scenario. When we use alot of scientific breakdowns...we can rationalize, or box in... or defend, pretty much anything. Usually, our habits we don't want to let go of and more then likely ones we like to 'push' on others to strengthen our personal decision.

. to complete the list (IMO of course): slice of watermelon, whole un-peeled orange, tomato, cucumber, rank durian, avocado, coconut, amaranth stalk with seed, small bail of wheat, bag of rice, white flour, Cream of Wheat, block of wood, Captain Crunch

[given the characters of fruits delivered to an alien, what they would pick off the shelf - in order - following the description]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2007 02:40PM by anaken.

rankdurian,

It is kind of sad how raw foodists can't seem to agree, isn't it? But, if no one gets upset, sometimes it is fun to discuss these opinions and learn from the discussions.

I think we have to be more instinctive in our eating and pay attention to how it makes us feel. We all might be at different stages of our detox or have different microflora in our intestines suited for different combinations. Some of us might do great with lots of fruits and little fat, where others feel awful when they eat that way. Some of us might do great with more fat and lots of veggies and the non-sweet fruits, and others say they feel very tired when they eat more fat. Still others do great with sprouted grains. Then there are the fruitarian ones that are doing wonderfully and the 80/10/10 followers who are great examples of health.

I think there is one thing we can all agree on though is that the S.A.D. or S.W.D. is not a healthy way to eat and as long as we are avoiding all processed foods and thereby avoiding GMO, transfats, fast foods, junk food, hfcs, etc. we are doing great and much better than 90% of the people in the so-called civilized world. As Matt Monarch says "It is what you leave out of your diet completely without cheating that heals you"

I learned from your comments because you reminded me about the foods that apes eat that none of us are considering including in our diets - fungi, bark, insects. I had thought about this before, especially the insects since some people do eat those. Some theorize that is how apes get their protein, it is a very small part of their diet but it still might be very significant. Also, it might be how they get their vitamin B-12. Interesting...

Also, I want to relate a somewhat funny story. Danny Bonaduce and Jerry Mathers were on some sort of reality show (I didn't see it, just saw them interviewed about it later) where they had a competition to do lots of weird stuff and see who could complete everything first, including eating a bug. Jerry (Leave it to Beavers fame) was grossed out, of course, so he just closed his eyes and swallowed it whole. Danny (Partridge Family fame) chewed it up and swallowed it. Jerry suffered for months because the bug survived in his intestines and created lots of havoc. Doctors had to have him virtually consume pesticides to finally kill it and he was in the hospital for quite awhile. Danny teased him saying, "Jerry, mom always said to chew your food."

Anyway, be sure to chew all your food thoroughly - including the insects. lol

In conclusion, though, I think we should keep somewhat of an open mind instead of sticking to a certain way of thinking because of any one guru. The expert is ourselves and the way we feel, in the long run. (of course, short term we might feel bad due to detox but, for example, I have heard of people ignoring their teeth becoming loose and then they all fall out - not good).

Just mho and I reserve the right to change it. ;-)

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sunshine79,
>
> Here's the real question: If a person is
> shipwrecked on a deserted island with no fire, are
> they going to be happier if the island is covered
> with wheat fields ready to be harvested or the
> island is covered with watermelon fields ready to
> be harvested?
>
> Humans do not have the capacity to eat the raw
> wheat grains. However, eating a raw watermelon is
> no problem.


Well on a tropical island it's generally large juicy sweet fruits that are indigenous and optimal to eat.
I'm not sure that wheat would be growing on a desert island, as I think it grows mostly on northern prairies. Sprouted grains are excellent for cold climate sustenance, as you can really go a long time on very little food if you're eating grains. Sweet fruit, on the other hand, assumes greater physical activity, heat, sunshine, etc., so their high water & calorie content is perfect for such conditions.

I ask you this, then - if you spent 8 months in Alaska during the coldest months sitting on your tush in a cabin, do you honestly think you'd be jonesing for mountains of pineapple at that point? Because I bet you wouldn't, I bet your sedentary cold weather metabolism would switch to craving more compact sources of nutrients such as sprouted grains, nuts, seeds, etc.

It is no accident that nature ripens nuts in the late fall in northern climates - it means that's what nature thinks is best for us to eat at that time. Of course we are free to ignore nature and listen to a raw guru instead, that is our option.

If we are physically active and/or in a hot climate, then we'll crave sweet fruits. Again, it's no accident that we get the sweetest fruits in the summer or in tropical places.

What I'm saying is that a person's location and lifestyle habits will greatly influence his or her raw food needs -- and yes, sprouted grains and nuts are as optimal as any other whole raw food given the right circumstances.

Sunshine,
Your article mentioned tubers - does this include potatoes?

Inner Beauty

I re-checked but I couldn't find tubers mentioned anywhere...? As far as I know, tubers are a category separate from fruit.