If you had no money to buy organic, would you still consume regular produce or would you change your diet?

There have been several reports compiled of the types of produce that are likely to have the highest and lowest levels of pesticide residue when grown conventionally. When money is tight, some things are much safer to buy conventional, like asparagus. Other things are probably best avoided if organic is unavailable or too expensive, like bell peppers.

I would still buy produce.

If you ate meat instead, for example, the pesticides are concentrated many 100s of times more than on the produce.

these are my choices:

homegrown first. (very cheap!)

then, local (from small scale farmers in my area)...i always buy from the growers who state they are pesticide free, but that isn't always an option. (the prices at the farmer's market for in season fruits/veggies aren't that expensive in my area....)

then, organic/biodynamic/free trade. (yes, expensive at times)...

then, conventional produce if i'm really stuck.


buying processed foods, meats, dairy are very expensive too. i don't see a major change in my food bill from back in the day when i ate a lot of cereal and vegan "junk" food.....

much love,
*m*

The reason I ask is because one of the lecturers at my university (who always gave me a hard time about being vegetarian) said that now, eating raw, I'm even worse off than I was before when I ate mostly beans, rice and cooked legumes, because of the pesticide residues that are acumulating in my body.
Maybe I'm impressionable but I got really scared.

here's a clue "always gave me a hard time about being vegetarian" to not trust anything they have to say about diet. they sound like morons. somehow eating meat is supposed to NOT cause an accumulation of garbage in your system? wow, what planet are these people from? and hello, rice, beans and legumes are VEGETABLES, cooked or not. what's the justification for saying that fruit and salad are somehow less healthy than that?

i swear, sometimes people will just open up their fat stupid gobs and say anything, anything at all. grr.

sorry, sorry, reactionary venting!

ok, less angry. look at the health of the people telling you these things. are they healthy, are they happy? do they spread light and joy or darkness and negativity?
how do you feel when you eat raw vegan? do you feel like your body is thanking you, cleaning itself out, healing, or in trouble?

Conventional beans, rice, cooked legumes, and wheat all have lots of pesticides sprayed on them too...

At least with fresh, raw produce (even if it is conventional) you have those great live nutrients to help counter any toxins & fiber to help push things through. Not so with meat, dairy, wheat, etc.

You might like this [www.vegsource.com] How To Win An Argument with a Meat-Eater.

Here is an excerpt from [www.living-foods.com] that might help:

Pesticide Residues in Animal Products vs. Plant Based Foods
Most people’s concerns about organic foods are centred on fruits and vegetables. Although these crops are subjected to an array of chemicals the real problem appears to be the meat and dairy. This is because most pesticide residues are known as lipophilic, which means they are attracted to fat. They lodge in the fat tissues of the animal, bird or fish becoming more and more concentrated as they move up the food chain. The Centre for Science in the Public Interest, who are a consumer watchdog group, reported that pesticide residues are more frequently found in meat, poultry, fish, butter and lard than fruit and vegetables. In his book “Diet For A Poisoned Planet” David Steinman processed a vast amount of data from the Total Diet Study conducted by the FDA. He concluded that foods could be divided into three categories according to the number of toxins found in them. He named these categories “red” (for most toxic), “yellow” (for moderate), and “green” for lowest in poisonous substances. With the exception of raisins and peanuts* all the foods in the “red” group were meat and dairy products.

My experience: I've eat almost exclusively conventional (or stuff I grew/picked myself) for well over 6 years. I am the healthiest guy I know. I think excellent results can and will be achieved going from a relatively poor/processed diet....to one of fresh, raw, conventional produce. Just my observation.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

karennd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Conventional beans, rice, cooked legumes, and
> wheat all have lots of pesticides sprayed on them
> too...
>

excellent post karen, great excerpt

>
> Here is an excerpt from
> [www.living-foods.com]
> s.html that might help:

dzm,

>My experience: I've eat almost exclusively conventional (or stuff I grew/picked myself) for well over 6 years. I am the healthiest guy I know. I think excellent results can and will be achieved going from a relatively poor/processed diet....to one of fresh, raw, conventional produce. Just my observation.

that's good, but you're adding in another category, stuff i grew/picked, which can be better than certified organic.

i wonder how many really thrive on all conventional store bought food.

I hear you. In my case, the home-grown stuff was a small percentage (perhaps 2%). In any case, it's been all store-bought for many years now. Of course, each person has to work within their own matrix. Doing so is the key - and not the empirical special-ness or rightness of specific physical circumstances engineered. Just some thoughts.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Thank you everyone, I really feel much better.

Coco, haha, this guy is a well regarded professor, all the students suck up to him so bad, I bet he's never been called a moron before. I loved it that you were the first! Still laughing now. Goes to show that credentials don't necessarily mean the guy is smart.

Karen, great info, great links. Thank you! And David, I hope I have the same experience as you!

davidzanemason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hear you. In my case, the home-grown stuff was a
> small percentage (perhaps 2%).

wow. only 2%... interesting.

>Of> course, each person has to work within their own
> matrix.

but i don't wanna be in The Matrix!

No, I do not. First of all, I can't always find good organic produce here. Second, the prices are sometimes more than I can afford. Third, sometimes, organic produce is not as fresh as locally grown conventional produce from the farmer's market.

I just do the best I can. These last two weeks I've been "accidentally" buying organic oranges for something like 67 cents a lb. (Long story). But generally, I try to buy produce under $1 a lb, except for certain special things.

There are several things that I do try to buy organic whenever available - things like grapes that do have extremely high levels of pesticides. But bananas - I almost never buy organic, even though organic bananas DO taste better to me.

I really don't worry about it too much, generally speaking. I figure that even conventional produce is better for my body than cooked, junk, processed food and animal products.

Sarah
[goingbananasblog.com]

I try to grow my organic produce - fruit trees.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

hey rainforest, what is he a professor of exactly?

David --
So refreshing to read your post about eating mostly conventional! So do I, and if I didn't, I'd have missed out on many, many opportunities to get fruit directly from the tree/farm. I think my health has only been improved by my willingness to judge fruit by its quality rather than an arbitrary standard.

Smiles,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

Hardly ever eat organic!

F1

my rule of thumb is:
local first
organic second
conventional third.
don't get too hung up on it. sometimes i find myself making too big a deal about food.

i simply pick the best tasting and freshest food and cost comes into play too.

i almost always go for organic bananas and greens, the greens are richer tasting organic usually.. can't stand conv bananas.

some conventional is good- figs, citrus, tomatoes, avos and more.
melons, grapes, kiwi, avos are usually better tasting in organic for me.

. To me, health is very much about what you leave out..so if all you have left is commercial fruit, thats still a comparatively optimal place to be.

. My personal belief is that the pesticide load in washed/pealed produce is less significant to environmental air quality and more importantly the internal toxins of lifetime(s) of toxin ingestion.


. anyone concerned with 'building' their body back on the highest quality of nutrients needs to recognize that this needs to take a major back seat to internal cleansing

. The idea of being against commercial fruit or hybridized fruit or whatever..is almost the same argument as those arguing against 'cultivated fruits' instead of wild fruits...just a lesser extreme...Its all paranoia. The idea that somehow, what we have access to (in contrast to what we know causes un-health), isn't good enough. I personally cannot support.



- for me, the decision (until recently) to eat largly conventional didn't come down to finances but to availability. Sometimes I'm just too lazy ( or busy with my dreams ) to take a train to get organic stuff when there is a perfectly good fruit market downstairs. (or transporting huge pondage of stuff on my bike or whathaveyou like I was doing)

for awhile I was part of a food buying coop and got good prices on organic and local stuff. but now the prices are higher then at many markets for some reason.

In my case, theres commercial stuff that I don't touch either (I never buy conventional greens, as they don't seem to be much of a financial burden and its easy to stock up a few days of greens when i'm close to an organic store). I tend to not eat the skins of ANY fruits anyway, commercial or not (except conventional Cali grapes..which make up a HUGE part of my diet). I avoid anything i'm aware of that is irradiated or hot water treated, organic or not.



. I certainly believe that people that are internally clean will have more adverse responses to crap, whether its food/air/water whathaveyou. One could *maybe* develop sensitivities towards even small amounts of poison, but folks still manage to function driving in a car breathing exhaust all day, so I suspect not so much.

. I also think all the folks here that are in excellent health, and thriving on what THEY think are the highest level foods....shows a GREAT example to those with 'anxieties' about jump-starting their live food diets from the get go with an expensive burden or limited options.

I eat mostly conventional produce too; hard to find organic and it's too expensive a lot of the time. I try not to buy conventional fruits/vegies that are known to be especially loaded with pesticides, like strawberries. Soon (well, next spring) I'll be growing much of my own organic vegetables and fruits and getting produce delivered from an organic farm I trust, so things are looking up! Meanwhile, I feel great, but if I didn't feel so good I know what I'd do: I'd fast and get the toxins out of me quick. ;-)

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

I'm so glad everyone is doing great on conventional produce!

This morning, on my way to uni, I stopped at the fruit & veg market and bought lots of stuff to eat throughout the day - all of it came to less than 4 reais, which is equivalent to less than 2 US dollars. Conventional fruit is cheap! I'm so happy to be completely fearless of them
12 beautiful bananas were roughly 25 US cents! Yipee!

Coco, he is a theoretical chemist who works with and teaches molecular modelling. From now on I'll only trust his opinion regarding this specific subject and NOT my diet

Wishing a happy day to all

I eat a mix of conventional/organic too.

Frankly, there is an almost neurotic/phobic avoidance of certain conventionally grown produce operating in me - don't know how that set in. But tender greens or lettuces, celery, and apples that are conventionally grown give me the willies and I go out of my way to get these organic.

Some organic produce actually tastes better to me: cucumbers, zucchini, bananas, oranges, apples and such organically grown are worth the effort to find and afford as they are juicier, sweeter, or "cleaner" tasting.

But in a pinch...conventional serves well enough.

khale

Fresh: -Ha! ha! There is no THE matrix - only YOUR matrix! (Stuff that works better for YOU). LOL.

-The above posts are just awesome. Many of the VERY healthy people I know....long-term......live on a some variation of a rather simple....and often conventional fresh, raw produce diet.

-As very correctly pointed out......it is my personal opinion that internal, long-term cleansing of deposits is far more important than any specific food. With a proper self-regulation of detox and internal cleansing over a lifetime.....many people will find that they can thrive on a VERY simple diet.

-Excellent discussion!

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

rainforest that's a great idea. i'm sure he's smart about what he knows, regarding diet he sounds like a bozo. how's his health btw? better than yours? he might want to start taking Your advice!

We try to buy as much organic as possible, but sometimes the prices are too high or it's just not available. Here is a list from the Environmental Working Group: [www.foodnews.org].

I think that it's very difficult to buy organic all the time. I do feel more comfortable with certain items being organic, such as apples and some of the soft skinned fruits that I would not peel. But I do agree that some things are so much more delicious organic and would buy them that way for the sheer pleasure of eating them. I have not been raw very long, but I have been in and out of the lifestyle for the last year or a bit more. I have been a huge lover of produce for most of my adult life and a vegetarian/vegan for the last ten years. I have eaten a wide variety of produce lots of places and tend to favor the organics.

We do the best we can. I would love to always buy organic and I buy more and more organic all the time, but it is not always available or fresh.

But here is one more thought about conventional produce that Frederic Patenaude mentioned in a recent newletter.

He mentions that the ratio of sugar to mineral salts might be out of balance in conventional produce and this can, unfortunately, lead to dental decay. He knows organic produce isn't always available, so he recommends a super dental hygiene program.

Here is an excerpt:

“... If we are referring to a commercially grown banana, then what is true is that the ratio of sugar(s) to mineral salts is out of balance. And the same applies to all commercially grown foods.

In my own experience, eating primarily organically(my own) fruits and vegetables, and with very poor oral hygiene, maybe I brushed my teeth once a week, and often less regularly, and with a high incidence of fruit in my diet, one of the meals per day, of the two habitually eaten being fruit, I experienced re-capping of two teeth....”

John L Fielder DO,DC,ND(Adel)
Osteopath & Lifestyle Consultant_Academy of Natural Living

ANSWER:

When I was in Costa Rica, I saw the following sign at a National Park. This is a word-by-word transcript of the sign. When I go back there, I will photograph it for everyone to see it:

Contrary to the stereotype, bananas are not the preferred food of monkeys in the wild. Bananas, especially those containing pesticides can be upsetting to the monkeys' delicate digestive system and cause serious dental problems that can lead to eventual death.

Certainly, your point is valid concerning the ratio of minerals to sugar in commercial foods. However, most raw-foodists don't have access to 100% organic foods. They have to do with the best they can find.

That's why I feel the Super-Hygiene program I present in my ebook can do wonders for saving your teeth, because we cannot have 100% control over our environment.

Congratulations on your results with your teeth! But most people I know are not as lucky. When I first went raw, I moved to a very sunny environment, I ate almost everything organic, and I ended up with a mouthful of cavities...

I eat mostly organic and local, especially salad and berries and other fruit. I will eat conventional avos, mangos, persimmons, corn and onions though in a pinch..

I don't mean to ignore the unfortunate fact that good organic produce is often not available or is simply too expensive.

But this is all the more reason for those of us who CAN afford it, to support organic farming by buying organic produce as often as we possibly can. The more organic farmers can sell, the more organic farmers will grow. And the more conventional farmers will turn organic.

In choosing whether to buy organic or not, let's please not entirely forget the consequences for health that our food choices have on our Mother Earth and on all of her graciously bestowed resources.

And doesn't the health of the planet affect the health of the inhabitants - the flora, the fauna, the nonhumans, and the HUMANS?

Cheers to you Rawgosia for your organic pursuits!

I'm growing my own organic food too. But for many years, on nearly 100% raw, before I had my own organic food to eat, I bought mostly conventionally grown (NON-organic) produce. Like most of us, I found that the organic stuff was just too expensive, and the conventional stuff didn't seem to bother my health. In fact, like nearly everyone, I experienced great improvement in my health due to my raw food vegan diet.

But about 17 years ago, after a few days of eating conventionally grown walnuts (locally grown and purchased at a roadside stand), I became very sick, with a major pain in my gut that had me doubled over. This lasted for several days, until I switched to organic walnuts coincidentally given to me by a friend.

A few months later, I experienced the exact same pain after eating conventional sunflower seeds. I switched to organic sunflower seeds, and the pain went away.

I concluded (right or wrong) that the toxic chemicals used in conventional farming could become concentrated in the nuts and seeds, similar perhaps to the way that nutrients are concentrated in nuts and seeds.

The experience left me wondering about the more longterm health effects from the chemical residues of ALL foods, and I started to think that MAYBE the chemical residues in fruits and vegetables could be having a more subtle long-term negative effect that I was not yet able to consciously detect.

For that reason, I began to make a more conscious effort to buy organic as often as I could. One welcome side effect of that was the good feeling of knowing that now at least my food choices were no longer hurting our Mother Earth - the MOTHER who feeds all of us, but whose water, earth, and air, and even her atmosphere are being constantly bombarded in every conceivable manner, by all of us ignorant humans - including me.

The assault comes not just by our food choices, of course. But food choices ARE a very big part of it.

We all know that. If only that knowledge were enough to allow us to change our ways!

Not only do we forget the importance of making the most compassionate food choices for the benefit of our planet and its other inhabitants, we tend to forget that the health of our OWN bodies DEPENDS upon the health of our planet! We are all so UNconnected that we can't easily remember that what hurts the planet WILL ALWAYS hurt us, in one way or another.

Here's an example and a reminder of the food assault on our planetary home, aka Mother Earth: Chemical fertilizers are basically unregulated and are made from chemically processed PETROLEUM and other toxic ingredients, including fillers of questionable and sometimes even illegal origin. For example, high levels of HAZARDOUS WASTE have turned up in chemical fertilizers. Unfortunately, it costs money to dump hazardous waste at a legally designated site, whereas selling it to fertilizer companies brings a small profit. And it's a cheap way for fertilizer companies to buy filler.

Pesticides and herbicides are: chemically manufactured and chemically processed POISONS.

In addition to poisoning ourselves, every time we buy conventionally grown produce, we are supporting the companies that make the chemicals that go onto the plants and into the soil. We're supporting companies like Monsanto, because Monsanto makes Round-Up, a very commonly used herbicide. Monsanto has also made several genetically altered foods for the sole purpose of creating "food" that can grow in an ULTRA-herbicidal Round-Up environment, which of course strengthens the weeds too, making it necessary to use even more Round-Up - on EVERYTHING conventionally grown.

Do we want to support Monsanto and others in their pursuit to control the food supply with genetically altered sterile seed, aka TERMINATOR seed - the same kind of seed that's already mandatory in Iraq, thanks to Paul Bremer et al? (google "Terminator seed, Iraq" for the specific rule.) Every time we buy conventional produce, we are putting money into the pockets of companies like Monsanto.

The toxins from chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides remain in the soil long after the fields have been abandoned (if they ever are), and they remain in the eco long after they've been ingested and evacuated by some unfortunate being - human or non. They permeate lakes, creeks, rivers, and groundwater (which is one REALLY BIG reason we can't drink out of creeks anymore, and all our drinking water has to be filtered).

Please, don't we need to think about all this when we claim that the conventionally grown fruits and veggies don't hurt us?

Are we like the lemmings, rushing to our deaths? Shouldn't we raw-fooders, who are perhaps the very most enlightened beings on the subject of health, be willing to set the very best example whenever we possibly can?

(Taking a breath). To go on with my story, in case anyone's still reading - , a couple of years ago, my husband and I went to visit relatives for about a week. By then, we had been eating nearly all organic for well over a decade, mostly home-grown organic fruits, some home-grown veggies and nuts, plus some store-bought organic fruits, veggies, nuts, and seeds.

The relatives we were visiting had no vehicle and no nearby health food store. So we brought along store-bought organic seeds for me, and organic grains for my husband (he's vegan, but not raw).

And for the first time in so many years, we bought the conventional (NONorganic) produce from the nearby supermarket.

After a couple of days, we both started getting sick. My husband broke out into such heavy sweats, we couldn't keep up with the laundry; we had to buy extra Tshirts for him to wear. Plus his headaches were so severe, he spent most of the latter part of the week in his room with a pillow over his head. For me, it's always my stomach. Towards the end of the week, the gurgling and stomach aches were nonstop and painful.

A couple of days after we got home, we were back to normal. Thank goodness, our relatives have since moved to within walking distance of a big health food store with good ORGANIC produce! I visited them recently and had no problem.

One small footnote: My grandson has exzema, and my son and daughter-in-law recently discovered that his skin is better when he eats only organic food. After eating conventional food - even conventional produce - my grandson has a skin reaction.

For those of us who have never experienced discomfort from chemically poisoned conventionally grown food, maybe try going ORGANIC for a few years, and THEN see how that chemical food feels!

Moral of the story: Maybe we experience the greatest sensitivity to the "wrong" foods when we haven't eaten them for awhile. Most of us raw people certainly know that's true when it comes to raw vs cooked, or dairy vs nondairy, etc. So couldn't it be true for ORGANIC vs conventional as well? Most of us grew up eating a conventional meat/starch/junk food diet, and for most of us,it didn't seem to bother us too much when we were kids. Our wonderful bodies try to adjust and accept the "wrong" foods for as long as possible. But if we give up the "wrong" foods for a while, our bodies flush them out much more vigorously if we're again exposed.

Whatever the case, for Heaven's sake, or for Mother Earth's sake,...let's try to do our best and include our planet along with ourselves as much as we possibly can, when making our healthiest food choices!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 01:02PM by suncloud.