hello again. so what's the opinion on coffee and the raw diet? its the ONE thing i cant give up. and i would like to know if the effects are so awful that i should put in more effort to stop drinking it. i drink a couple cups in the early morning (I wake up at 4am). and sometimes i drink more in the afternoon. I generally only drink organic coffee with a small dab of soy creamer.

what are your opinions?

thanks!

d

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My personal opinion? It aint raw...and it aint healthy. My speculation is that there are healthier beverages you could transition to....and that eliminating caffeine from your intake would probably be a good thing (did it myself......not easy.....but do-able and worth it).

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

One of the ways I stopped drinking coffee, I drank young coconut juice instead. This would wake me up and get me going. I also had so much energy after drinking coconut juice.

Teechino is a good transition drink that can be mixed with coffee. Google it, and I am sure you will find it.

I personally wean myself back from coffee periodically by going with more and more milk in the coffee. I haven't really gone so raw as everyone here, but my interest is currently piqued. This world is gone so mad, that I think I need to get healthy so I can be more prepared for whatever may come.

ddreams76

I am 53 years old..

I quit drinking coffee permanently, cold turkey for the last of four times in April of 2006..

The previous three times that I quit cold turkey I had migraine type headaches that lasted between 3-4 days, 24/7 the entire time that I detoxed off of the caffeine..

Headaches so bad that they effectively prevented me from sleeping during the detox..

Even knowing that drinking coffee was not good for me, I still returned to drinking coffee each of those three times..

I feel that the difference in why I've been able to resist returning to drinking coffee this last time is that I also started eating vegatarian & raw at that time..

Also, since I was planning on quitting permanently, I weaned myself down to between 8-12 ozs. of coffee per day; drinking it only in the morning & never after lunch..

Even though I am currently not raw, (but attempting to be !!), I have had no incentive to return to drinking coffee..

This marks the longest period of time that I have been caffiene free since I was approximately 8 years old (19 months)..

The interesting thing about my childhood was that both my parents ABSOLUTELY refused to allow any of their children to drink coffee before we reached adulthood..They said it was BAD for us!!..

However, neither my mother, nor my father saw any reason to forbid us to drink the extroardinarily strong iced tea that my mother prepared beginning in April & lasting through the onset of truly cold weather..

So for nearly 7 months each year we kids were allowed to consume unlimited quantities of iced tea with a caffeine content that was at least double that found in the coffee that my parents drank..

Since my mother smoked cigarettes & drank iced tea & coffee through all 4 of her pregnancies, I feel that all of us kids were born with a predisposition to caffeine addiction..

Coffee, in my opinion, is definately not raw..

Like all stimulants, regardless of whether they are of animal, plant, or synthetic origin, coffee only stimulate the brain for a short period of time..

After the period of stimulation is over, all stimulants act as depressants to the central nervous system..

The period of time that the body is depressed is always much longer than the period of time that the body was stimulated..

This alone should tell you that stimulants should be avoided unless there is a spiritual or medical reason for needing to be stimulated..

Once you have intelectually decided to stop drinking coffee, tea, milk,or soda; then the actual process of giving it up will be much easier..

And do not kid yourself, the detox from drinking carbonated soda, while not as violent as detoxing off of caffeine, is still no picnic..

Be strong mentally & good luck!!

Bruce

word bruce. my mama gets wicked migraines when she pries herself off the brown juice. it's intense to watch her, she suffers. if that weren't enough to convince me that the stuff is evil for your body, the times in my life i've had coffee i felt intensely nauseously spinny, worse than any street drug i ever took as a youth. coffee is serious poison.

Hello, I have that problem too. I never have been able to give it up for any long period. Each time I can give it up for a while, I see that my life isn't so improved, and so I'd rather keep the coffee thankyouverymuch. Its a vice! I agree, but I've never been able to feel that it was hurting me, I am addicted, that is for sure. But real harm? I don't see it! Anyway, I do think it would be better to live without it- that is for sure. Good luck with that!

BRUCE... thanks for sharing your story. coffee is a tough one to give up. I have given up the carbonated diet sodas. That wasnt so tough for me. but the coffee is another story.

KS...yeah, i feel like coffee is my vice as well. its the one thing I havent given up for the raw lifestyle i have just started. well...except the ciggs but thats the HARDEST and that's next!

thanks everyone for posting! keep em coming...I love your opinions!!!

d

Actually, I don't think coffee is such a bad thing - in limited quantities, and without sugar. It contains a lot of anti-oxidants, and doesn't the boiling water kill the phytic acid?

Pattabhi Jois, creator of ashtanga yoga recommends drinking a cup before morning practice. It works for me

ddreams ~~~~~
4AM thats way cool
can you imagine eating
watermelon. berries
pears or green apples
your favorites
instead?


i know it isnt easy

hello fruitgirl...i do eat my favorite fruits after my workout. but there is something about the coffee first thing in the morning. but i can give it a shot...trying to cut down at least.

so fruitgirl...are you a fruitarian?

I have given up the coffee. I still kind of want it in the morning but I don't want to be altered by its affects any more. I have stoped coffee and cigs since june and have never felt better. I am so tired of the lies that we have learned about coffee being a pick me up. The raw diet is a much better pick me up. There were times I lived off the coffee just to keep my eyes open but I feel so alive now and more wide awake by not drinking the coffee.

my biggest weakness is herbal sun teas. They can't be considered "legally" not raw because they never go over 100 deg f while steeping (around the places I've been long term at least ). Yerba tea has a cousin to caffeine and it's my favorite tea. I have been forcing myself down while doing my raw transition though and don't consume as much.

Reasons I've heard that coffee is worse than regular tea is the acidity within the coffee that's not in the black teas. I don't know how much truth there is to that but I do know that if you spill hot coffee from McDonald's on a grease infested shop floor and mop it up that spot on the floor is spotless, whereas if you spill the same amount of hot tea on the floor and mop it up it's just no longer wet. This is an experiment I did after the coffee spill/clean-up.

If there's any truth to it then you're getting double the whammy. You get hit both with the caffeine and also the acid increase.

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ddreams
i am fruitarian off and on
but i love the veggies too
i prefer keeping my food very simple
no fancy recipes

and truly speaking if i were to splurge
and go to cafe gratitude
i'd get coffee over preparation of combined raw foods
every time

i'd enjoy it more and willing to pay the detox

You can certainly find "scientific" arguments for or against. I think everyone is different the way coffee affects them.

I successfully, easily, and ACCIDENTLY beat my addiction to coffee with an 11 day master cleanse. (I wasn't trying to quit coffee at the time, it was an unexpectedly pleasant by-product of the cleanse process). I'd tried unsuccessfully to quit HUNDREDS of times in the past.

(I am an ashtanga practitioner, and I used the fact that Guruji drinks coffee to justify my own intake despite the fact that I knew at some level it was bad for ME, personally.)

My point is that if YOU personally are ADDICTED to coffee (like I was for many many years), you know it. And if you're addicted, your body is telling you something... Get off the junk.

Namaste,
Jennifer

ps my main issue with coffee is that its imported
(im assuming you're also in the u.s.)

but if you must drink it,
for the highest good of all, you could try locating
organic, fair trade, shade grown

"Pattabhi Jois, creator of ashtanga yoga recommends drinking a cup before morning practice. It works for me"

Iyengar has been known to slug people.

Michio Kushi consumed steak and whiskey.

Beware of using your guru's behavior to justify your own.

I struggle with this too but I am trying something that seems to work. I get up an hour earlier than normal (giving myself 2 hours before I leave the house). Ususally after about 30 minutes I am awake. Then, I do the sun salutation and get the oxygen flowing and then meditate for at least 15 minutes. I have been doing this on days I don't work and it works great. As for the headaches, they aren't an issue for me. Maybe because I only drink 2 cups in the morning. I usually do my Total B sublingual around noon and this gives me a boost. I have also found that the green smoothies do great things. Bananas and greens are full of potassium and that in itself is a huge boost. If all else fails maybe Cacao nibs/beans might do it for you. I try not to overdo the cacao, its a potent caffeine for sure.

My parents (66 and 68 years old) are long distance tandem cyclists (75-100 miles a day for weeks on end) and they are experimenting with cacao. Mom is approx. 95% raw and Dad is 80% and they love their coffee. I will let you know how their experiment works. It would make it easier for them when they ride so when they camp for all of those weeks they don't have to find a nearby coffee shop first thing in the morning. They said its very inconvenient.

Gina

oh gina, i love, Love, LOVE that both of your parents are doing so much raw, how joyous is that?! wonderful!!

great comments on addiction, knowing it, justifying it using "good" examples. awesome.
that fact that you're in here asking is an answer all on it's own.

I find that the thing about being caffeine free this time around, is that I really don't miss the so called stimulat effects of coffee at all..

As my addiction grew older & older, the caffeine had less & less effect on me..

The best thing about giving up coffee is NOT feeling the effects of the depressant half of the addiction..

Also, over the last 3-4 years, the amount of coffee that I needed to drink daily in order to feel the "pick-me-up", resulted in an increasingly sour, upset stomach..

By not drinking coffee I started to address some of the issues that I have with my digestive tract..

Like most Americans, since the proliferation of Starbucks, I became addicted not only to the coffee itself, but to the sugar in all of the flavored coffee drinks that have become so popular..

When I first started drinking coffee I was some what of a purist about the ritual..

Bought a grinder, bought fresh roasted beans, kept them in the freezer, ground only the beans for that day's coffee, filtered the water, used a French press, transitioned to organic paper filters in a drip pot, etc., etc., etc..

Sometime in the past ten years, I began drifting towards the sugary, flavored coffee drinks as opposed to just high quality coffee for the sake of coffee taste alone..

Since I already have a sugar addiction that I was born with, eliminating flavored coffee drinks, as well as coffee itself, was important to me in helping to control the sugar cravings..

I see the issue of coffee for someone that aspires to be raw, the same way that others on this forum have spoken up pertaining to other foods that we don't want to give up..

It's just another food that we do not want to stop eating; & we will use whatever justifications that work for ourselves, as we are being questioned about it..

For myself, although I am not currently very raw, when I next committ myself to raw; it will be a full committant, mind, body, & soul..

In my past three attempts, I chose to only "attack" the SAD diet on a piecemeal basis..

I told myself to start slow, & take things one aspect at a time..

Unfortunately, that approach did NOT work for me!!..

It left me with way too much wriggle room to find ways to justify eating candy bars, cooked foods, etc.

I should have emptied the pantry of the foods I knew I did not want to eat, & filled the house with raw foods that I would feel compelled to eat (I'm VERY frugal!)..

By not doing so, every time that stress in my job or home life intruded, I ate the foods that I intellectually knew I didn't want, instead of the healthy raw foods..Which often went to waste..

Sometime in the next several months, I'm going to empty my life of a lot of unneccessary clutter by selling what I can (locally & on e-Bay); & giving away a lot of "stuff" that I have collected over the past 45 years..Much of which I do not use very often, or at all..

As a chef I have enough equipment to stock a small commercial kitchen!!

After the personal stuff is gone, I intend to really clean out the pantry, kitchen cupboard, refrigerator, & freezer..

I'll throw away those things that need to be disposed of, & give away the food stuffs with value to someone that will use them..

Then I'll stock up with the foods that will allow me to sucessfully transition from SAD to raw..

Then I'll start a 30-day challenge that hopefully will be the start of the rest of my life!!

Bruce

Lee_123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Pattabhi Jois, creator of ashtanga yoga
> recommends drinking a cup before morning practice.
> It works for me"
>
> Iyengar has been known to slug people.
>
> Michio Kushi consumed steak and whiskey.
>
> Beware of using your guru's behavior to justify
> your own.


True.. it's a mild drug, and a bit of crutch. Coffee can be either therapeutic or poisonous.

When you go from tamas to rajas to sattvas (sugar, spicy, pure/raw) it should never be forced, but based on the bodies natural desires. Personally, I can no longer have sugar in my coffee, and never more than 2 cups a day. When it's time to stop drinking, the body will simply have no more desire.

Do you agree?

The first time I ever drank coffee, it ripped the nerves right out of my stomach. I was young and healthy. Then I got addicted to the stuff and the nerves in my stomach became desensitized. Now that I'm raw, I don't use it anymore but I did have some a couple years ago after being raw for 6 months or so, and guess what - it ripped the nerves out of my stomach again!!

Actually, coffee isn't food anymore than tobacco is. Caffeine is a narcotic.

rlt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Actually, coffee isn't food anymore than tobacco
> is. Caffeine is a narcotic.

going that route neither is dandelion, parsley, cilantro, oregano, hemp, etc. coffee is a plant which can be and is eaten, or "drinks" made from it, and has been and still is used to enhance the flavor of foods. It happens to contain caffeine, a stimulant. Chocolate contains the same stimulant as do other plants naturally and is a food. Hemp contains a level of thc and yet supposedly hemp leaves or seeds are very good (a source of debate I know, just using it assist the point)

I wouldn't eat cilantro as a mono-food and I can't gain a huge benefit nutritionally (would probably puke my guts out if I tried) but I wouldn't declassify it as a food. Caffeine is just a part of foods that are not good for me IMHO, much like the processed foods I'm trying to stay away from.

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rlt wrote;

Actually, coffee isn't food anymore than tobacco
> is. Caffeine is a narcotic.

Fud responded;

"going that route neither is dandelion, parsley, cilantro, oregano, hemp, etc."



The aboved mentioned do not have any narcotic in them as coffee does. Instead, most mentioned contain alkaloids instead. I don't think these alkaloids are addictive. Even THC in hemp isn't a narcotic.

And as for chocolate, I'm not too sure it is food. Unadulterated chocolate, that is without the sweetening that we add to it, doesn't taste like something that I particularly think of as food.

I've been addicted to caffeine and nicotine. I've also eaten all of the above plants, hemp included and none of them have the addictive quality of caffeine. To me, coffee is not food but rather a drug just like coca leaves aren't food.



rlt

I know the country formerly known as Burma classified caffeine as a narcotic but am unaware of other countries doing the same.

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Jorgeben,

I agree with you. Also, I hope that you do what is best for you. That may not be what is best for me.

Coffee has negative effects on me. Others can drink a cup or two and not experience much in terms of negative effects.

I wish I could drink it -- I am one of those weirdos who love the taste! I also love the whole ritual of the morning cup of coffee and raw/natural replacements just don't do the same thing for me.


Lee

Hi Fud,

When I was a kid, my dad came home from one of his classes that he was taking to earn his Master of Public Health degree. He told me a narcotic can be identified by the last three letters of the word -ine. For example, codeine, cocaine, morphine, nicotine, caffeine,

It seems to hold true though heroin is missing an "e".

I love coffee but it doesn't work for me. The more I'm raw, the more my body rebels against the whole thing.

Like you Lee, I love the ritual and the aroma and the taste! Personally though, I just can't do it. I can't even drink tea now without having a similar reaction.

That's the thing about raw. It sensitizes your body!

Rob

I'm just going on the word "narcotic" being a legal term but generally refers to drugs that reduce pain. Much like "insane" is a legal definition and not a medical one but generally refers to someone who is mentally ill. There are several narcotics on the list that have nothing to do with how their common or scientific names are spelled. Some barbiturates/hypnotics are on the "narcotics" list as well and have nothing to do with 'ine' in their spelling.

(most) Narcotics are, generically speaking, substances controlled for legal reasons, though some argue that certain "narcotics" are on the list for political reasons. Medically speaking caffeine is a stimulant, i.e. an amphetamine. While some claim that caffeine reduces pain, studies show it only helps accelerate the pain reducing effects of other medications or substances:
[www.freepatentsonline.com] .
Generally caffeine can act in conjunction with other medications to accelerate their effects and is often used to assist other medicines, much like in the reduction of migraine headache symptoms or stroke reversals ("irish coffee" has been shown to reverse stroke damage when ingested quickly enough after a stroke:
[www.newscientist.com] .

I'm not even certain it's still classified as a "narcotic" in Myanmar.

While I agree whole heartedly that caffeine in excess is over all not very good for us, it is a stimulant that occurs naturally in certain foods, i.e. coffee, cocoa, green tea, black tea, etc.

This stimulant can be and is used as a natural alternative to chemical medications on the mass market today. Much like garlic is supposed to be the strongest antibiotic known to man. If you make a monofood of garlic, however, you may suffer severe consequences. I believe garlic is safer than coffee beans but use it as an illustration.

I just think that in our rush to be healthy, we need to dissiminate information accurately and not mislabel things or misrepresent things. IMHO Coffee is very bad yes, a narcotic, no.

I hope I'm not being offensive in my efforts to post my understanding. Thanks for your kindness and willingness to discuss these things with me.

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