Aloha kind folks,

I'm in need of some encouraging words...

I just got the results from a blood test and my "bad" cholesterol is 214, the "good" cholesterol is 42. I've been raw since early July... I had one bite of turkey at thanksgiving, but other than that I've had no animal flesh at all and my overt fat consumption has dropped dramatically. I'm fairly active too. So what gives? I thought I'd be getting this glowing phone call from my doctor saying that my cholesterol levels were amazing...instead he's suggesting medication because obviously (to him) my lifestyle change hasn't worked. I know I'll never take chemical medication, but I am so confused as to how my cholesterol can be so high when I haven't had any in 6 months. I've been drinking quite a bit of cilantro and fresh turmeric blended with fresh green coconut water...a cleanse that just intuitively came to me. Do you think that it might be dumping old cholesterol into my bloodstream?

It's not like I'm going to abandon my new raw life though. I feel wonderful, but I am worried about this. Any ideas? Anyone else still have high cholesterol after being raw?

Thanks and aloha, Greg

Sorry for that, Greg!

There could be a few explanations:

The test results could be flawed. Doctors, labs, etc. make mistakes all the time.

Or maybe it's just like you said. Old cholesterol dumping into your bloodstream as a result of a cleanse.

Or, are you eating eggs and/or dairy? Are you reading labels on everything packaged, like candy bars, powdered drinks, etc?

There could be other explanations, but I have no idea what they'd be.

I'd say, if you're concerned, stay raw, stay vegan, exercise, and take another test in a month or so.

If your doctor says that you need to take medication right away or your health is at dire risk, then I would suggest that you get tested again immediately. And just in case, go to a DIFFERENT doctor to be tested.

I have been wondering about cholesterol on a raw diet because I only eat fruit and greens and there is no cholesterol in fruit or greens, dont we need cholesterol? I mean a little? I had my cholesterol checked about 6 months ago and mine was 104.
Rob

Thanks SunCloud,
I'm hoping there was a mistake.
Unfortunately I don't know what my cholesterol level was before I started, so maybe it was obscenely high.
Besides the tiny taste of turkey on thanksgiving, the only animal product I've had is raw honey... and probably no more than a couple of TBS a month of that. ..but no eggs or dairy ...and I don't eat anything that comes in a package or has a label except for a small amount of miso, or olive/macadamia nut oil...but rarely. I might have one micro brew beer or a glass of wine every few weeks or so, but other than that, all I eat are fresh fruits and veggies, a small amount of nuts and some bean sprouts (home sprouted). I've lost almost 60 lbs since I started this new life and I'm at a weight that I'm comfortable with... 200lbs, 6'4" tall. Losing a few more pounds would be ok, but I'm not sweating it at this point because I feel so amazing compared to the way I felt for most of my life... I'm going to continue eating this way, continually making little improvements and if I lose more weight in the process that's fine.

It's so strange, but a part of me wishes I never took the test. That part of me is saying, "hey man, before you took that damn test you were so happy with what you've accomplished so far...you thought you were super healthy... and now this? ... what did you do wrong?" I guess my question is, would it be better to know the test results, or to remain blissfully unaware and happily continue believing that I'm super healthy? Is the happy belief more beneficial than the knowledge? Can I possibly have both?

Reading through this, I must say that I am still happy with what I've accomplished so far. Maybe the doubtful voice is just a sad echo from my old SAD diet.

Aloha nui loa, Greg

Hi Rob,

I think 104 is pretty good as my Dr said anything under 200 is healthy. I know we need the "good cholesterol", which is either in, or produced by stuff like flax seed oil and that level should be over 40. I need to read up on this... i thought it would be a non-issue for me with my diet.

Thanks and aloha, Greg

I hear you Greg. It's OK for your disappointment....but what else are you going to do besides: identify the highest diet and lifestyles that you know/research....and live them FULLY and PASSIONATElY......almost regardless of the outcome...you know? My opinion is that the above posts are certainly correct. It probably did not take you 8 months to arrive at a high cholesterol and/or poor health....and it might take YOU longer to get a good angle on your health...and make the necessary adjustments.

-It very much COULD be old cholesterol being broken down and released back into your blood. That process COULD take a while...and I would be patient with it. More important is how you FEEL. Are you meeting your small goals? This is powerful!

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Please listen to your own self, not to Doctors.

Have you ever met a doctor that was truly, and I mean Truly, healthy? I have met only one (Harold V. McKenna, South Amboy, when I did Pharma sales with Merck in 98' & '99). Most are wounded healers, looking for wellness and wholeness just like everyone else, but in a different place - in the supposed "healing" of others.

[www.oneillpaul.com-a.googlepages.com]

I have been wondering what my husbands cholesterol will be when he finally has it tested. He has been high raw for a year and a half and had high cholesterol prior to that.

I like what Dave Mason wrote. I think it should lower with time. It took years to get it that high. Maybe lowering things that are bad too quickly is also bad. If you didn't know what your levels were prior then it could be much better.

I have never met a healthy doctor either. Most have been really unhealthy. I had been considering that a lot since going high raw. Why would I take health advice from anyone who isn't healthy themselves?

Good luck Greg! I miss your beautiful food pics!

greg, don't get frusterated. I understand though, I say a natural dr and he took my blood preasure and it was very high, still. I was devestated and on top of that he tryed to encourage me to eat fish and some other cooked foods. He firmly advised me to eat some cooked foods in fact.... I was so discouraged after that visit. One thing I got out of it was the fact that I really have some healing to do and It will take time for that. I ended up going way off the track through the holidays and I started to feel and look like a cooked fish. By far eating raw foods is the best way and no matter what the doctors say or there tests prove I still am going to eat raw. Perhaps the coconut drink was flushing out the bad and the test indicated it. Dont get discouraged. It sounds like you are doing real good.

Greg you've got very high LDL and a relatively low HDL, not a good combo. You should also check your triglycerides. You may want to research low-carb diets, which more and more studies are showing to improve lipid profiles. I'm experimenting with a raw paleo diet which I'm sure could be converted to vegan with some careful consideration.

Btw, dietary cholesterol does not have much effect on blood cholesterol, actually some studies show it might improve it slightly by making bigger (less atherogenic) LDL and HDL.

greg....

are you sure your bad cholesterol is 214? that number looks like it could be your TOTAL cholesterol.

your bad cholesterol is called "LDL" and the good stuff is "HDL".
you add the two together and you get a TOTAL. get a copy of the labs to make sure! if your TOTAL cholesterol is 214...that is only slightly high (should be under 200).

doctors love to put people on meds...cuz that's how they make dinero! i work in a hospital and all the doctors here are "med-happy"....they toss out meds like candy.

let me know about the LDL thing...

thanks!
m

P.s.

our liver makes cholesterol! we NEED cholesterol to make hormones. it is the primary component in the make up of all cells, it helps develop the membranes. Cholesterol is made or synthesized into bile acids, steroid hormones, and vitamin D for the body.

So, even if you aren't eating it, your body makes it! So don't be too hard on yourself! maybe your cholesterol has decreased over time...and will continue to do so....

*hugs* that must be so frustrating and confusing. Before raw I had high bad cholesterol and triglycerides, even though I was a vegan--no animal cholesterol entering my body. My body, I found out, never handled insulin well (which caused the cholesterol/triglyceride and menstrual irregularities).

Like you, I instinctly knew what to do. I was addicted to young coconuts and I consumed at least one full coconut (water and flesh) every day. Within one month my cholesterol level went to extremely healthy. The triglycerides, however, didn't come down until I took B12 supplements.

I wish you love and health along this journey. I think it's good that you had the test because one day you'll get another test (or even more than one more) and see an obvious path to better health.

Lots of love to you,

Wendi
XOXOXO

Nest time you go see your doctor, show him this

Quote

A Dietary portfolio: Maximal reduction of low-density lipoprotein cholesterol with diet


Abstract: Over the past two decades, cholesterol-lowering drugs have proven to be effective and have been found to significantly reduce the risk of coronary heart disease (CHD). However, diet and lifestyle factors are still recognized as the first line of intervention for CHD risk reduction by the National Cholesterol Education Program and the American Heart Association, which now advocate use of viscous fibers and plant sterols, and soy protein and nuts, respectively. In a series of metabolically controlled studies, we have combined these four cholesterol-lowering dietary components in the same diet (ie, a dietary portfolio of cholesterol-lowering foods) in an attempt to maximize low-density lipoprotein cholesterol reduction. We have found that the portfolio diet reduced low-density lipoprotein cholesterol by approximately 30% and produced clinically significant reductions in CHD risk. These reductions were the same as found with a starting dose of a first-generation statin drug.

[www.springerlink.com]

So you get the same reductions, but without the side effects Give it some time and I'm sure the LDL will drop.

Cheers,
J

Thank you so much everyone!
Once again, I am so grateful for everyone on this forum... you are all wonderful people! It is the combination of compassion, personal experience and knowledge that make this place so incredible!

I do have to remember that it took 41 years to get as unhealthy as I was. I was a voracious carnivore before going raw vegan pretty much over night... meat for at least 2 meals/day, 1 quart to 1/2 gallon of coffee a day (loaded with cream and sugar), cheese was it's own food group for me, french fries at least 5x/week, etc. Also was a fairly (or unfairly to my liver) heavy drinker on the weekends. So, i am truly happy with where I am now on this journey. If you told me a year ago what I'd be doing now, I would have said you're crazy (between mouthfuls of meat). so, I surely do need to put this in perspective.

Yes David Z, This is pretty powerful. Truth is I feel better than I ever have. I meet all of my small goals and continually raise the bar everyday. It's easy to compare oneself to unhealthy people and feel great, but that's not an accurate indicator of personal health. I think I fell into the trap of comparing myself to the folks who go raw for 30 days and see their cholesterol drop dramatically. We're all different...I've got to remember and celebrate that. I can only compare my present health to my past health as i move into the future.

Jono, I will ask about my triglycerides. What would a low carb raw vegan diet look like? Would it be all nuts and seeds? I eat mostly fruit and veggies which are mostly carbs right? I don't think I want to cut that stuff out as I feel so wonderful eating how i do now.

M, Yeah the 214 is just the "bad cholesterol" Besides the meds, my doctor suggested more fiber which kind of made me laugh because I eat and drink (in green smoothies) so much fiber already...probably more than 99% of the population (there I go comparing myself again!).

Gypsy, Interesting about the coconuts. Last month i connected with a guy who has a palm tree pruning service and now he delivers piles of coconuts to me for $2 a piece...love that stuff. My b12 levels were very good... not sure what they were before, but I've been taking a b12 supplement for the last month or so.

Paul, Pakd and Pampam, you're all so right. This doctor doesn't seem too healthy. I need to find a new one who is open to, and supportive of my lifestyle. When he suggested the meds, I got flashes of those TV commercials for medications and their endless litanies of potential harmful side effects. Take this pill for cholesterol, then this pill to alleviate that side effect, then this other pill for the other side effect...and so on, and so on... the serpent eating its tail... not for me!

I forgot to mention that I also put milk thistle seed into my turmeric/ cilantro/coconut water drink. These are all pretty heavy liver detoxing substances, so maybe this has something to do with it... maybe it's the storm before the calm. I will get tested after my body no longer wants this drink, but i am definitely not done with it yet.

Once again, thank you all so much! You all rock and I'm sending you giant cyber hugs from Hawaii!

Mahalo and Aloha nui loa, Greg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2008 07:29PM by MauiGreg.

I'm getting in late on this one, but here's my 2 cents...

how would you react to this report of your blood cholesterol levels if you didn't have any fear?

you might be just interested (but not concerned), you might think "geez, i wonder what my cholesterol was before raw foods! good thing i started treating myself better. i wonder what my test will reveal in 6 months?", you might realize your doctor is a drug peddler who has no concept of true health as YOU define it and look for someone who will help you meet your goals. as it turns out, high LDL cholesterol is one risk factor that IF combined with other risk factors (HDL below 40, smoker, diabetes, high blood pressure, family history of heart disease) MAY indicate that you are at a higher risk for heart disease. now ask yourself, is someone living the way you are now and the way you intend to for the rest of your life at a higher risk for heart disease than the general population? i know you know the answer.

Maui_Greg, for your cholesterol concerns, after your supplemental info, I'd be looking straight to your liver. With that high a fat consumption plus binge drinking, it's going to take up to 3 years for your liver function to return completely to normal. Until then I'd recommend keeping your fat intake as smart as possible (won't say 'low' - you seem to know your body well) while keeping up your Omegas, to give your liver a chance to rest and recuperate. I also echo all the support and encouragement from others; you're obviously on the road to good health, don't let one bad measure and one naysayer get you down.

I have actually learned that one should never have their cholesterol tested while in the cleansing phase. Cholesterol which was before stuck to the walls of your bloodvessels is now being released into the bloodstream for elimination by the liver. NO need to worry at all if you know that you are on the right track. You will be surprised about your levels after a while and your doctor is going to be impressed...

Once again, Thank you all so much. I feel so much better than I did last night when I wrote the original post.

Ms Butterfly... you are so right, i DO know the answer!

SeaBuck and Greenie, Great points about the liver function... now it makes perfect sense why i would feel so drawn to my turmeric/cilantro/milk thistle/coconut water concoction. I guess i thought since the really obvious detox symptoms passed several months ago, that I was clean, but decades of abusing my body won't be cleared up in a few months. I won't let this get me down... no, no, no... it's inspiration to take my health to the next level!

Much love and thanks to all of you!

Aloha nui loa, Greg

MG, Have you tried doing a Vitamin C crystal cleanse? It will clean out your blood. After doing it, my blood pressure lowered to that of a toddler's. Also, if you're avoid mucus-forming foods by eating alkaline foods, the body will not have to protect itself with higher levels of cholesterol in the body to protect it from acidic conditions. Just a thought. Therese

Hi Therese,
I haven't heard of a Vitamin C crystal cleanse...what is it? I tried to google it but came up with nothing. Do you have any links to some information? I think i'm pretty good with non-mucous forming and alkaline foods.

Thanks for your help!

Aloha nui loa, Greg

I'd like to hear about the Vitamin C crystal cleanse, as well. I never heard about it before.

Love,

Wendi
XOXO

stress could also increase cholestrol levels too

i had my cholesterol checked once. at the time i was eating a lot of hemp. i don't remember what it was, but my doctor told me it was "really good." i didn't ask her about it, because at 20 yrs old you don't generally care or think about those things. omega 3s are supposed to be good for cholesterol. idk if it was the hemp, or the fact that i was 20 yrs old. i think all raw foods are supposed to have omegas in them though... to me it makes the most sense that fresh lifestyle is the bet for choleterol.

cheer up. it's gonna be okay. we are all here to support you. how do you feel since raw? has anything gotten better healthwise that you have noticed by yourself? good luck.

Even you did not have a full set of blood tests before you started your transition toward raw, you can be sure that your cholesterol level was higher than now.

There is absolutely no logical reason to be disappointed, because you are still cleansing your system and your liver (and your system) is healing too. This process needs time.

You made a great progress, you know this.
You gotta keep going toward the healthy life-style.

Once you will hit a "normal" BMI (probably going under BMI 24.9 couple of pounds and stick within the normal limits for a loger time), you will redo the blood tests and see even more progress - more likely.

As you already seen, you have all our support.

Good job!

Pls. excuse my English - foreigner.

=============================================================
Medicine, Food Industry and Commerce are businesses.
Is their goal to make/keep me healthy or to make more profit?
=============================================================

Maui greg, I was reading a McDougall newsletter and one paragraph stated that ifyour body is detoxing it would dump the chloresterol into your blood stream. Your intuition is correct and this test sort of prooves the cleansing you are doing is working. You are perhaps cleaning out those stores of chlorestorol. So don't feel discouraged.

Hey Greg, congratulations on bringing down your numbers, even if you don't know what they were prior to your recent test. If you've been raw for a while, you can be assured your numbers were higher, and if you stick to a healthy diet, they may continue downward.

Eating raw fruits and vegetables is wonderful, but don't forget the exersize and stress reduction part of the equation.

Here are baseline numbers.

According to NCEP ATPIII Guidelines, after a 9 to 12 hour fast:

TOTAL CHOL
Less than 200 mg/dl Desirable
200-239 mg/dl Borderline High
>/= 240 mg/dl High

TRIG
Less than 150 mg/dl Normal
150-199 mg/dl Borderline High
200-499 mg/dl High
>500 Very High

HDL
Less than 40 mg/dl Low
Greater than 60 mg/dl High

LDL
Less than 100 mg/dl Optimal
100-129 mg/dl Near Optimal
130-159 mg/dl Borderline High
160-189 mg/dl High
Greater than 190 mg/dl Very High

Remember that these are baseline numbers after a 9 to 12 hour fast. So if you had eaten sooner than 9 to 12 hours before your test, that could have had an effect. I think what's equally important to what you are eating is what you are not eating (ie, the fries and red meat). Also, as someone else mentioned, your body makes its own cholesterol. And, some of this may be genetic. Any idea what your parents', brothers' and sisters' numbers look like? One more thing, there are newer, and more accurate cholesterol tests soon to come to market, and it's assumed that these newer tests will provide an even more accurate cholesterol picture.

I like Shane's outlook and would like to echo her congratulations on lowering your cholesterol!

Thanks PamPam,

That's really great to know...I had a feeling that I might be flushing it all out...I'll try to find that newsletter on-line.

Shane, Thanks for the data and encouragement. I hadn't eaten anything for 12 hours prior to the test, but my last "meal" was my cleansing smoothie. unfortunately i have no idea about my genetic disposition concerning cholesterol because i was adopted. I think my diet is right on track...at least it feels that way... now I need to step up my exercise program. Yoga has been calling to me lately and I feel it would be great for my mind and body. I have had several injuries that hinder many types of exercise and yoga seems suited to that. I just have to get over my self-doubt... in many ways i still have the physical self-confidence of a fat man, so i find myself a little anxious about doing yoga in front of other people. Just like i overcame the unhealthy eating patterns of my former life, i know I'll slowly be able to work through my self-confidence issues too. I just need to find a supportive beginners yoga class. hopefully this will help me deal with some stress too. I'm usually not very stressed, but i have been feeling it quite a bit lately as i struggle to cope with my fathers alzheimer's.

Thanks again to all of the wonderful compassion and support from everyone here...YOU ALL ROCK!!!

Aloha nui loa, Greg

*Hugs* Greg,

I have been dealing with the same thing--having low physical self-confidence as though I was still overweight. One day I was at a small party and one of the children dropped something. It rolled under the table and my mind instantly went into defense mode. I was the closest to the table. How was I going to retreive the ball without everyone seeing my big body attempting to bend down to get it, having to get down on the floor, and then huffing and puffing as I sat back up with a red face and try to verbally tell the child "here it is"? It was all less than a second of internal panic as I bent down effortlessly, folding my body in half (!), grabbed the ball, smiled to the child and said, "here you go, sweetie." and inside I had a little party going on in my mind--I was shocked that I didn't get out of breath, didn't have a red face, was able to effortlessly bend down to retrieve the ball. I felt like a stranger in my own body, but I liked the feeling! ;-)

Yoga has been helping me some, but I'm hoping the belly dancing lessons I'm taking will help me get used to my new body even more quickly. I wish you all kinds of body loving self confidence, Greg, and lots of stress relief as you care for your father.

Lots of love to you,

Wendi
XOXO