My move to "raw" and my move to "vegan" are simultaneous. Discussions like this help me out as I learn to "live my beliefs".

I have many problems with our food chain...and treatment of animals is a problem. But so are the living conditions of migrant workers who provide our fruits and vegetables. I became aware of this when I lived in Homestead, FL about 10 years ago and I haven't looked at a fruit or vegetable with the same eyes since. I now live in Wyoming and cannot afford or always get locally produced organic fruits and veggies, so I perpetuate migrant workers situation as I purchase my produce. Personally, I don't get a whole lot of pride out of my newly practiced veganism, when I remember the migrant workers I got to know well (I worked at a small store where they were bused twice a day for "supplies".

I do appreciate those who call attention to the fact that this is a vegan board..it reminds me to continue to grow in my practice of the vegan lifestyle. But I hope we can still enjoy a good "discussion" now and then.

Workers in the slaughterhouses are treated even worse, it is one of the most dangerous and horrible jobs.

But you're right about the produce workers, I do try and buy from ethical produce suppliers as well, and organic at that.

Dear Bryan,

If you want to remove me from the game board, please go ahead. I would be just fine with any such action, but I would like a crystal clear explanation for why.

Please cite the exact verbage on this post that is worthy of that or.....whatever "criteria" you think you are using.

Thank you.

Love,
Paul

[www.oneillpaul.com-a.googlepages.com]

Raw Angel, She consumes raw meat... What kind? I can't imagine eating cooked but raw meat is disgusting???

www.myspace.com/greeneyedvegangirl
GO VEGAN!

I do not believe that human beings were intended to live in cold climates..All evolutionary evidence points to & supports the archaeological evidence that we evolved in the tropics..Humans are not equipped physically to survive long exposures to cold weather without warm clothing & or fire..

When we lived in trees we were primarily fruit-eating herbivores..It is my belief during this period of our evolution that we were also opportunistic omnivores..The addition of insect & animal proteins allowed us to evolve & develop thinking brains that were capable of solving problems & creating tools, both simple & complex..

Without our ability to problem solve we would never have been able to leave the tropics..Without warm clothing from animals & the taming fire so that we could stay warm during harsh winters, there is no way that we could ever have populated the planet the way that we have..The challenges of conquering the widely varyingly environments that the planet offers undoubtedly contributed to the development of our brains..

Those people that argue that we could have evolved to our present status without the exploitation of animals are deluding themselves..As someone that has taken several survival classes, I can tell you that trying to warmly clothe oneself with plant-based fibers during anything other than a mild winter, is an extremely problematic exercise..Once temperatures drop below 45-50 degrees Fahrenheit, fire & very warm clothing are needed to ward off hypothermia & death..Without dry shelter & some means to work in the rain, sleet, & snows of winter, along with fire & warm clothing; it is not possible for humans to survive & thrive in cold climates..

It is my belief that drinking the milk of domesticated wild bison & aurochs was a way to sustain life when slaughtering the animal for food was not desired..It might also be the outgrowth of trying to figure out what to do with the abundant supply of milk that a domesticated cow had when her calf died unexpectedly..As I'm sure must have happened many times when humans were first domesticating cattle..Our ability to problem solve is in all likelihood responsible for the development of dairying..I would agree with others on this forum that the drinking & consuming of dairy products by humans is not a natural thing to do..As others have pointed out humans are the only species that consumes milk past the age weaning..Science has shown us the majority of the humans on the planet are not capable of properly digesting the sugars & proteins in animal milks..However, it is my belief that the domestication of animals for food & work is the primary reason that humans were able to colonize the colder climates of the planet..Without animals we would not be where we are today..

As humans living in the first decade of the 21st Century we have the luxury of being able to decide whether or not to consume animal foods..Without the worldwide transportation infrastructure that currently exists, it would be much more difficult to live one's life as a raw vegan..If the infrastructure that brings us the foods that we eat to our table ever breaks down due to catastrophe, war, or pestilence most of us that survive the first months of such a disaster would in all likelihood be forced into having to eat cooked foods, perhaps even animal foods..

Not to mention that most people have lost the skills to garden & farm..Households no longer have a store of seeds that have been saved generation-to-generation from the previous years crop to plant the following spring..We depend on huge seed companies to provide us the seeds necessary to grow food in our gardens & on our farms..Most of these seeds are hybrids that you cannot save seed from & expect to grow an edible crop..Over the past 100 years at least 75% of the planets food plant diversity has been irretrievably lost..

Before the Industrial Revolution, the humans surviving such a disaster would have been able to simply move to another part of the planet where fertile soil & abundant water made possible the growing of sufficient foods to survive & eventually thrive again..This is no longer possible due to the fact that 90% of the planet's fertile layer of topsoil having been depleted..In some cases desertified..Clean, potable water is also becoming very scarce..Our oceans are polluted..The majority of the remaining clean water on the planet is locked up in the polar icecaps..

I firmly believe that those of us striving to be raw vegans must be willing to participate in learned discourse regarding this lifestyle..Regardless of one's beliefs regarding the exploitation of animals, it would hypocritical to believe that we could have reached our current state where we have the ability to make a choice whether or not to consume animal products, without our ancestors having done so..

As I have stated in another post recently, I believe that the raw vegans of the immediate past, those of us currently practicing raw veganism, & the raw vegans of the next 50-100 years are the guinea pigs for this lifestyle..Scientists just do not know with any certainty what the optimal human diet might be..Very little research has been done in the past, nor is much being conducted currently, to determine the ideal human diet..

We fight an uphill battle against what is commonly accepted as a proper diet..The multi-national food conglomerates are not going to willingly surrender the profits that are being made in the food industry..I'm not sure of the exact figures, but I believe that the production of food for human consumption is the worlds single largest enterprise..

As raw vegans I believe that we must start taking control of our diets by growing as much of our own food organically as is possible to do..We need to eat as much produce as we can that we grow with our own hands..We have to stop talking about the problem & become the solution..I have been deficient in this area myself..My goal is to be growing organically & eating at least 50% of my yearly diet within the next two years..Five years at the outside..

Bruce

AMEN Bruce. VERY well and respectfully put. You are totally right.


Me (30), Joseph (24 mo.) Jeremiah (4 mo.)

We are enjoying spring and being outside!!!

jan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Raw Angel, She consumes raw meat... What kind? I
> can't imagine eating cooked but raw meat is
> disgusting???

I believe she eats raw fish.

True carnivorous mammals do in fact eat raw bloody meat right off the rack. Ironically, it's a testament as to why we're not carnivorous mammals given our horrified reactions to eating meat, especially raw as it was most likely intended. I'm right there with you. When was the last time you saw a human being outrun a tiger, jump it's prey, kill it with it's bare hands and dig right in, bloody face and all? LOL. I love to use this argument when my meat eating friends get under my skin with their teasing & comments of my vegan lifestyle. Usually shuts them up in a jiffy.

And oh I have to add and then of course when you get, "but we need protein" comments, I then share that gorillas and elephants are vegan and that they look pretty strong to me ingesting plant proteins. Then they are really lost for words! hahaaaha. Feeling silly this saturday morning. Peace!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2008 06:54PM by rawangel.