i thought it was sorta funny...
but i like pro wrestling humor.

cy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> PS)all the experiments on CRON are done with
> cooked food.

No. Fontana studies raw foodists. This one included a group of raw foodists.

Fontana L, Meyer TE, Klein S, Holloszy JO.,Long-term low-calorie low-protein vegan diet and endurance exercise are associated with low cardiometabolic risk. Rejuvenation Res. 2007 Jun;10(2):225-34.

His IGF-1 paper also included raw foodists.

"Man would do no better than to write his own Bible".....H.P. Barksdale (My Father)

I looked at a few references about the CRON-diet. The idea is good but the recommended Food is 'awful'. I've seen videos of some of the Proponents, and they look very Ill. I'll stick to "Quantum Eating", thank you very much......WY
P.S. I took Bryan's advice and broke my Dry Fast 2 hours early this morning. I had a slight Dry Mouth. I guess I'm not as 'Pure' as I thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2008 06:23PM by Wheatgrass Yogi.

Yes, many CRON people eat processed foods like Quorn and whey protein, neither of which is vegan nor seem particularly healthy to me. But they have a lot of good ideas still--we can take what works and ignore what doesn't.

This CR guy is high-raw and vegan, he eats pretty much the same thing at every meal and says it has simplified his life a lot, pretty interesting.
[deanpomerleau.tripod.com]

To me, dry fasting is on the order of self-flagellation and a hair shirt. But more dangerous. I honestly can't imagine any situation where it would be a good thing except before surgery. I can understand the therapeutic benefits of short-term water or juice fasting but there is nothing healthy about being dehydrated.

I am new to CR and after reading the "Basic Principles" article at CRS Longevity Wiki:
[en.wiki.calorierestriction.org]
I am interested. The principals seem very logical and make sense to me. Since going all raw I have been playing around with ways to improve my receptiveness to my body signals and one of the best ways I have found so far is to wait for a slight hunger signal before eating as I have found that my body frequently sends a signal for a specific food along with the hunger signal. After reading the "basic Principals" I am thinking that this practice is basically another form of CR. I would be interested in hearing your opinions about my conclusion that waiting to eat until experiencing some hunger is a form of CR. Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2008 11:41PM by EZ rider.

Don't base what you need by studies done on people (and animals) who eat cooked food. The amount of Sleep needed is a good example. Tonya Zavasta says she normally sleeps five to six hours a night.
I'm halfway through her book now and I'm convinced this is the 'Way' for me. If less emphasis is placed on Food for Nutrition and Energy then we can get it from other sources.....like the Sun and Air. Yes, there's even a correct time to Breathe, according to her.
I recommend her book "Quantum Eating" as 'Required Reading' for any serious Raw Foodist.....WY
P.S. I 'broke' my Dry Fast this morning after 16 hours......had a slight headache. I'm shooting for 18 hours tomorrow morning.

Way to go Wy, I am ordering the book myself. I am definitely interested and agree with that you are saying about "food for nutrition" and getting evergy elsewhere. So much emphasis IS placed on food, more than necessary I think. I still question the dry fast - even the notion that I can do it for more than 8-10 hours through the night! But, I am really interested in everything she has to say. Anyone have a copy they want to sell? If not, I guess amazon is the best place?

One other question I have though, is why she would suggest eating during the elimination time when many raw foodists say not to eat (morning time until noon). Is it because the elimination period is now not just the morning, but instead the time that the body is fasting? And, in actuality I usually stop eating around six or seven pm, and don't eat again until 11-12, except for a bit of tea or water around 9pm - maybe. So, that is a huge chunk of time without anything to eat or drink, however, the timing is just different. I guess I am thoroughly confused by her rationale most likely because I haven't read the book myself. Does anyone know why she says to more or less reverse the eating times?

And, WY - you really didn't break the fast by drinking water - you just weren't "dry" fasting. Does she talk about fasting vs dry fasting in depthly - giving reasons as to why we "shouldn't" consume water during the fast?

veggiefreak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One other question I have though, is why she would
> suggest eating during the elimination time when
> many raw foodists say not to eat (morning time
> until noon).

There's a chapter in the book about our
Biological Clock and why morning is best to eat. She
gives an example of a study done in the 70's. When the
study group ate one 2000 calorie meal a day, they lost
weight when they ate it in the morning, and gained weight when
they ate the same meal in the evening. I took that to mean our
Body is more efficient in the morning.

> And, WY - you really didn't break the fast by
> drinking water - you just weren't "dry" fasting.

Thanks, but I broke with Celery Juice.......WY

To me the idea of not eating in the morning does not make sense, the body has been fasting during sleep, even for some from 6pm (more than 12 hours). It needs food in the morning to fuel itself for the work of the day.
The question should be what is the appropriate food to eat in the morning not if we should eat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2008 04:18PM by madinah.

Does she base her time frame on her wake-up time or is this 6-8 until 2pm generally preferred I wonder??
I also wonder if she recommends 2 meals during that time or several smaller meals??

Wheatgrass Yogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When
> the
> study group ate one 2000 calorie meal a day, they
> lost
> weight when they ate it in the morning, and gained
> weight when
> they ate the same meal in the evening. I took that
> to mean our
> Body is more efficient in the morning.


You've got it backwards. Gaining weight on the same
number of calories by eating in the evening is more
efficient: less fuel is required. Losing weight on
the same number of calories in the morning is less
efficient: more fuel is required.

If you want max efficiency, eat once per day in the
evening.

Yes, and when you need less calories to maintain or lose, you are able to better practice caloric restriction. Caloric restriction is based on absolute calories, from what I've read.

Goes totally against all those magazine articles on "firing up the metabolism". It may help you lose weight to have a faster metabolism but will make you age faster.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You've got it backwards. It's not the first time.
> Gaining weight on the same
> number of calories by eating in the evening is
> more
> efficient: less fuel is required. Losing weight
> on
> the same number of calories in the morning is
> less
> efficient: more fuel is required.
>
> If you want max efficiency, eat once per day in
> the evening.

This is getting confusing....Fast vs Slow Metabolism....Aging vs anti-Aging....Dry Fasting vs Water Fasting.....Calorie Restriction vs High Calorie Diet....Light eating vs Heavy eating....Eating all day long vs eating twice a day.....Eating in the morning vs Eating in the evening.
I think Tonya Zavasta may have the Magic Formula in "Quantum Eating". I just know that I'm beginning to like the Guy I see in the mirror every morning. I guess the most important thing is to feel good about what you're doing, no matter what it is.......WY

Wheatgrass Yogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I just know that I'm
> beginning to like the Guy I see in the mirror
> every morning.



awesome and good to hear.

>Fast vs Slow Metabolism

I don't think this exists. A lb of muscle will burn the same number of calories per unit activity plus or minus very little adjustment.

>Aging vs anti-Aging

I don't think this exists either. There is only aging faster than necessary and aging only as fast as necessary.

>Dry Fasting vs Water Fasting

We need water.

>Calorie Restriction vs High Calorie Diet

Restriction is better. But we do need exercise, which makes us need more calories. This is the confusing part, to me. How much is too much?

>>I just know that I'm beginning to like the Guy I see in the mirror every morning. I guess the most important thing is to feel good about what you're doing, no matter what

Yes. Except for one thing. My main concern with this board, aside from learning and sharing, is that some people might be courting a B12 deficiency.

Calorie restriction is just another name for not-overeating, and dry-fasting for drinking-when-you're-thirsty.
Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

WY - can you post a typical Quantum Eating day? Just curious - anyone else doing it that can post a daily log? Thanks!!

arugula Wrote:

> Yes. Except for one thing. My main concern with
> this board, aside from learning and sharing, is
> that some people might be courting a B12
> deficiency.

Perhaps. Don't sprouts have a lot of B12?

B12 thing in sprouts is a subject of controversy I guess: [www.veganforum.com]

i believe I first heard it when I was into sprouting garbanzos for awhile. (Wierd phase I went through having nothing to do with health. lol)

(I have nothing of value to add to this thread, but it consistently enthralls me. Thanks, everyone. I slowly aspire to a more calorie-restricted lifestyle.)

veggiefreak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WY - can you post a typical Quantum Eating day?

This is still very new to me, but what has
worked best so far is.....
Eat from 6am to 2pm.
Dry Fast from 2pm to 6am.
'Break' at 6am with diluted Wheatgrass Juice. Follow
with Celery Juice, then a little later with Carrot Juice.
A Green Smoothie just before 2pm ends it all until the next
day. Weight gain or loss is controlled by the amount of Juice
and/or Smoothie. No Fruit also works for me.
What is your 'Magic Formula'?.......WY

With Calorie Restriction, how do you decide how much is too little or not enough??

so totally confused. these things always seemed geared towards heavier people while i am the opposite. i have a very fast metabolism already, i'm skinny, i don't want to lose any more weight
liver better, age slower, YES! get thinner, NO!

I did 37 hours dry fasting Sunday 2 pm through Tuesday 7 am and that was wonderful!!!I was great and I was thinking on continuing,but...I decided to wait a bit for the next time.I'll do 3 days dry fasting the next time.This is the fasting for me.I could never do more than 3 days water fasting,and I was always hungry,nervous...but dry fasting is for me.I've never felt so good in my life,so calm,so in peace,I didn't have hunger nor thirsty.I'm looking forward to do my 3 days,and my 7 day also dry fasting,and maybe in the future 14 day dry fasting (though 14 days would be with an expert in it)

cy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did 37 hours dry fasting Sunday 2 pm through
> Tuesday 7 am and that was wonderful!!!....I'm looking
> forward to do my 3 days,and my 7 day also dry fasting,
> and maybe in the future 14 day dry fasting (though 14
> days would be with an expert in it)

Cy...Thanks for the update on your progress. You're
an inspiration to us all. We can all do more than we think we can.
We are only Limited by our own imagination......WY

Thanks WY.
Check out this Dry Fasting Article by David Wolfe
[www.mega.bz]

tanawana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With Calorie Restriction, how do you decide how
> much is too little or not enough??

It's hard to say, probably in the absence of smoking and other pathologies the healthiest BMIs are in the 18.5-20 range and whatever it takes to stay in that range or a little above is probably a good target. If you don't know what BMI is you can google it, there will be calculators based on your height and weight.

tanawana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With Calorie Restriction, how do you decide how
> much is too little or not enough??

Throw the Charts out the window.I'd say
go by how you look and feel. A Positive
frame-of-mind goes a long way. Expect your Body to become
naturally Toned as you lose (or gain) weight. Stretching
Exercises help. CR slows the metabolism, and the Body will
become more efficient on less. That's the promise anyway......WY