No, not literally. I was in a drugstore and heard this ungodly din. It was the pleas of two children who were whining loudly and incessantly. The mother was trying to find something and she had to deal with their manipulations. One was asking to be picked up. She stated to him that she had her hands full and couldn't carry him but he whined loudly enough for her to lift him. So her words did not match her actions. Also, it showed this very young child a reinforcement of brattiness=getting needs met. For about two minutes, all was well and then...it started up again. The older child wanted something. They were in line and the mother was threatening to prevent him from going to a birthday party if he kept it up. Did it work? Nope. She kept arguing with a five-year-old on why they couldn't stay in the store or get what he wanted. He lay down right in front of the register. I stepped around him after paying. This is what I wanted to say to the mother: Don't argue with your children! Doing so only makes the subject up for debate! When they are older, you may have to discuss things a bit longer, but now it's your way or the highway. Let them have their hissyfits. Let them lie on the ground and pout. Just silently pick them up and proceed and never utter a word. Let them know who's boss!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2010 07:51PM by banana who.

Listen, if you actually take note of all the bad parenting around you in public, you will make yourself craaaaazeeeeee. Trust me on this!

Walk a mile in her shoes.

What bugs me, when I'm out shopping, is the fat mother of three or four little kids who is loading her grocery cart with junk food that gets paid for with Food Stamps, and she's yelling at and swatting her kids all through the store.

KidRaw,

Yes, it's important to consider the reasons why the mother is making the worst possible discipline choices with her tykes. She may lack a support network, she may have serious stress problems, and so on. But, as someone who was raised by a single mother who was widowed young and who worked[she got help from grandparents]but who almost never caved on discipline, especially out in public, I'm surmising the list of excusing reasons for the mom's acting this way is damningly short, sorry to say.

Back when I was a Montessori student teacher, it was obvious which kids came from homes where the parents established ground rules early in baby's autonomy, and rigorously maintained them: their kids were invariably polite, focused, helpful, and self-motivated. Clearly, it's not different if it's your own kid--you should have more influence over their behavior than a teacher or peer. It's a matter of understanding that you are the grownup and you are in charge, and sticking to that precept. If your kid is playing you and it's habitual, it's on you, they learned that pattern from you. And you have to take responsibility for it.

I think what irritates banana who[and me]about stuff like this is that it's soooooo easy to say "no" to a child and follow through. Say it and mean it and follow through with consequences. And if you don't, then expect things to get worse as they get older and more manipulative and intractable. Eventually, that behavior, which you as a parent have created, becomes a problem for all of us--banana who, and I and you--and it shouldn't get to that point. I am hoping the woman in the anecdote has more help than it appears, but also figures out, especially if she has little help, that however much that sucks, this child rearing thing is her duty and she'd better get it right. No job is more important to society(and to one's own self worth) than the raising of decent human beings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2010 03:52PM by Tamukha.

KidRaw: LOL--you said walk a mile in her shoes and then mentioned the "fat mother" who buys junk...I hope I don't come across as judgmental. I AM that way, but only on the surface. Moon in Virgo thing--I claim no responsibility whatsoever in my behavior

Tamukha: You said exactly my point This mother was not a low-income person. We live in an affluent area (I hope it rubs off on me, LOL!) and she was well-dressed, as if she shops in the speciality stores. She talked like someone who has had a more-than-decent education. It's easy to dismiss or defend mothers who are barely able to keep body and soul together and I do have much sympathy for what it must take to be in their position. However, even in those cases we should hold everyone up to the highest standards when it comes to raising the next generation. This mother, IMO, had some emotional need that was triggered when her kids were whining and acting unhappy. The reason I had to bite my tongue is that I so wanted to tell her that saying no to your children is not abusive, it's LOVING! It's abusive to give kids the false impression that they can have anything they want. They will suffer for it.

Well, in the case of the first little one who wanted to be picked up -- how old was he? Maybe he had been out shopping a long time, was tired and missed his nap, etc. They need comfort, physical contact with Mommy. I always picked up my kids if they wanted it whenever possible, carried them in a sling, etc. They outgrow that soon enough.

You said:

"Also, it showed this very young child a reinforcement of brattiness=getting needs met."

I think getting his emotional or physical needs met does not equal brattiness. It may develop a sense of security and less neediness later in life.

In the case of the second one -- If she didn't give in to him, then it sounds like he just acted out his frustration at being refused.

You said:

"This mother, IMO, had some emotional need that was triggered when her kids were whining and acting unhappy."

Sounds to me like her mothering instinct was triggered and that's why she picked him up.

I never was into all that Psychological Analysis, but I know a certain group that is. That's why we have Big Psychology now, who end up pumping the kids full of drugs and ruining their lives. And why the new buzzword is "Bullying".

KidRaw: I totally get where you are coming from. Had I sensed that there were genuine needs being unmet, I certainly would not have judged the situation as I did. They were saying "I want! I want!" It wasn't just to be picked up. And she was trying to carry something and told him that she could not pick him up and then did so the next time he whined. She explained why she could not meet his needs that very second (and that is life in the big city) and yet contradicted herself in the next moment. Consistency is very, very important. It was early in the morning so I doubt they had been out very long.

Oh, Have I seen abuse of children in public. One I should have reported. I worked at a deli, and a father was ordering food with his children. At the moment this little girl stood up to order, she took a deep breath about to say what she wanted.

At that exact moment he hit the back of her head and told her to hurry up and tell him what you want. He actually knocked her glasses off. I could see that she already learned caution about saying what she wants and needs. Because everytime she does so, she gets abused in some way. Its really sad. I wanted to tell him to leave the store for that kind of behavior, and I wish I did.

I noticed a small child raising his voice in front of a pet shop this morning. His mother bent down and said: "This isn't the place where we buy the frog." The boy protested and she kept bending over and trying to convince him of this fact. My opinion is that I see parents of young children (under 7 years of age) doing this very thing--trying to convince their children that they have the right to leave a store, not buy a particular item, etc. And the irony is that I feel that children of this age require a decisive parent; one who communicates a confidence in her judgement. You briefly explain but that should be it. When a child is a tween or teen, then you must be a little more flexible and possibly alter your stance or discuss things longer, but with a five-year-old? Um...not.