"while they are a terrific option is you are having sex for sport, i don't like them and don't use them with a steady partner with whom i have been for testing."
Okay and what advice do you have for those in a steady relationship where one partner has an std but the other doesnt and the one with the std is considerate enough to not want to spread that std to their partner.
Just because you are in a commited relationship doesnt mean you are std free.
i also have to remind you that several stds such as HPV and HSV are not commonly tested for and you will not be tested for them unless you show symptoms. Most people do not have symptoms. Also, there is no HPV test for men, so even if you were a billionaire who was able to pull a few strings and get tested for EVERY std known to man, your male partner could still have HPv and not know it and then suddenly, you have cervical cancer, ooops!
Sorry but unless you think having an std for the rest of your life is worth it, use condoms. Yes i know condoms dont prevent the spread of STDs such as HPV and HSV but i personally would rather catch those stds on the outside of my genitals where they are easily monitored and less likely to cause cancer, than in my cervix, and condoms can at least help prevent that.
I say unless you are married and ready to have kids and know this guy/girl is gonna be with you forever and thus are thinking "well im gonna catch his/her std sooner or later, might as well catch em now" use condoms.

thank you for the lecture. i am not 12 but thank you none the less. you may continue on saving the rest of the world with your righteousness now. buh bye.

Control birth control by using your thoughts, haven't you heard of 'The Secret'?

jk

[www.youtube.com]

I have a nonhormone IUD that has been in my body for almost ten years. I have to say that having sex without worry has been great. The first few months had been heavy blood flow, but everything normalized within time and now I am enjoying it greatly. Mine is copper, not plastic. It does not gross me out. It makes me feel fortunate to have such a reliable, hassle free mode of birth control.

Before this I used herbs and that was really gross as far as I am concerned. I always felt like I was poisoning my body.

I used the pill for three months when I was 19. I had no libido and was an emotional mess. I could not reccommend that based on my personal experience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2008 09:39AM by azrael.

The estrogen hormones in BC pills latch onto women's testoterone hormones, negating their positive effects such as sex drive. For many women, myself included, the BC pill kills my sex drive.

I have no problem with sex drive, in fact I WISH I had no sex drive. Better that than to burn for inappropriate people.

But I am taking a low dose.

coco, here are some papers:

estrogens are protective for skin, I have noticed that a certain type of woman (usually the olive skinned, brown eyed, not overesposed) can have good skin until about 50, after that the wrinkles start accelerating because of loss of estrogens:

Cho JL, Allanson M, Domanski D, Arun SJ, Reeve VE.
Estrogen receptor-beta signaling protects epidermal cytokine expression and
immune function from UVB-induced impairment in mice.
Photochem Photobiol Sci. 2008 Jan;7(1):120-5. Epub 2007 Nov 2.
PMID: 18167605 [PubMed - in process]

Tsukahara K, Kakuo S, Moriwaki S, Hotta M, Ohuchi A, Kitahara T, Harada N.
The characteristics of aromatase deficient hairless mice indicate important roles
of extragonadal estrogen in the skin.
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2008 Jan;108(1-2):82-90. Epub 2007 Sep 11.
PMID: 17951050 [PubMed - in process]

phyroestrogens and protective for the skin, this was a topical study but orals are also protective:

Widyarini S.
Protective effect of the isoflavone equol against DNA damage induced by
ultraviolet radiation to hairless mouse skin.
J Vet Sci. 2006 Sep;7(3):217-23.
PMID: 16871014 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Zouboulis ChC.
[Intrinsic skin aging. A critical appraisal of the role of hormones]
Hautarzt. 2003 Sep;54(9):825-32. German.
PMID: 12955259 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Bérard A, Kahn SR, Abenhaim L.
Is hormone replacement therapy protective for venous ulcer of the lower limbs?
Pharmacoepidemiol Drug Saf. 2001 May;10(3):245-51.
PMID: 11501338 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


estrogens accelerate wound healing in aged males and females:

Ashcroft GS, Greenwell-Wild T, Horan MA, Wahl SM, Ferguson MW.
Free
Topical estrogen accelerates cutaneous wound healing in aged humans associated with an altered inflammatory response.
Am J Pathol. 1999 Oct;155(4):1137-46.
PMID: 10514397 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
atheroprotective effects on lesion size in Apoe-/- mice.
J Clin Invest. 2001 Feb;107(3):333-40.
PMID: 11160157 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Castelo-Branco C, Figueras F, Martínez de Osaba MJ, Vanrell JA.
Facial wrinkling in postmenopausal women. Effects of smoking status and hormone
replacement therapy.
Maturitas. 1998 May 20;29(1):75-86.
PMID: 9643520 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

estrogens and bone:

Michaëlsson K, Baron JA, Farahmand BY, Johnell O, Magnusson C, Persson PG,
Persson I, Ljunghall S.
Hormone replacement therapy and risk of hip fracture: population based
case-control study. The Swedish Hip Fracture Study Group.
BMJ. 1998 Jun 20;316(7148):1858-63.
PMID: 9632404 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

estrogens and bone, cvd, and brain function:

Climacteric. 2007 Aug;10(4):273-5.
The HRT misuse and osteoporosis epidemic: a possible future scenario.
Gambacciani M, Ciaponi M, Genazzani AR.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Pisa, Pisa, Italy.

Recent controversies with hormone replacement therapy (HRT) have caused much concern in women and their health-care providers. As a result, the number of HRT users in the USA has fallen dramatically. Consequently, the potential HRT-induced reduction in fracture risk is lost so that, in the next few years, we can expect an excess of 43,008 fractures per year in women aged 65 - 69 years. In addition, the recent evidence on the merits of early initiation of HRT on cardiovascular disease risk and neurocognitive function and the effect of type and combination of hormones on breast cancer risk now require an urgent review by the regulatory authorities of their recommendations about HRT.

PMID: 17653953 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I had an iud for years and had no problems what so ever. they take away all the faffing about with all the other stuff.

But eventualyy I decided that I no longer wanted to harbour a foreign body so I had it removed.

I have two friends who got pregnant with an iud in place - they both went on to keep their babies.

it's a tricky one really isn't. You can only go with what feels right for you and that can change over the years.

hope you sort it out happily

Anyone ever heard of Neem? I thought it was interesting and maybe you guys will to.

[www.iamhealing.net]

I just got my Ovu-trac Tuesday afternoon, and it's awesome. You lick a microscope slide to see whether or not salts are present in the saliva to determine where in the ovulation cycle you are. The salts change 4-6 days before ovulation--a nice window of forewarning, whether you are trying to succeed in or avoid conception.

I was tracking my temperature beforehand, and Tuesday morning I had a spike. I suspected I was ovulating.

Tuesday evening, I gleefully unwrapped my package. It comes with a lovely little book that explains all the changes in hormones, salts, etc., with pictures and charts, has a list of recommended reading... very informational. It also has a chart of how changes in body temperature correspond to the salts, and can be used as a cross-reference.

Anyway, I gave it a whirl, and my first microscope slide matched the image of fertile/ovulating--SPOT ON, and right in alignment with my spike in temperature.

I tested again today, my temp was down a bit, and my salts matched the image in the book EXACTLY, of freshly post-ovulating. This matches a progesterone surge that comes with the passing of ovulation, and only happens if you aren't pregnant--which is also way better than having to wait weeks for a test if you are curious.

Of course, I have to continue to track over a period of time to make sure there aren't any blips in my cycle, and to learn about myself with more detail, but it was awesome to get a clear, unmistakable visual confirmation of what I had been doing before with just temperature + calendar.

The company also provides wicked customer service. I accidentally charged my credit card four times when ordering the kit, and the woman I contacted the same day had all the extra charges removed from my card within 3-4 hours and manually processed my order to make sure it went through properly.

Very, very awesome. For me, it really beats, "Well, we have to use condoms this week because I'm most likely ovulating... and then next week, just in case something weird happens with my cycle... and I know we used them last week just in case I ovulated early..." If something weird does start happening with your cycle, you'll see it the day it starts.

If tracking your cycle naturally is what you decide is the right path for you, this tool is probably the most scientifically accurate way of confirming all your other signals.

SandraDee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone ever heard of Neem?

Sandra Dee, I love you! That is great information.

yay phantom! i love mine too.

and neem is so great. on paper. in real life it reeks! of burned peanuts. so sad. i wanted to use it for toothbrushing and bug repellant but i couldn't get over the smell!

awww, i like neem! i think it smells "earthy".

umm, i posted this twice b/c i saw this was the same topic too.


HI, I have too aslo been thinking of using a natural method and been doing A LOt of research online. Here are some things I have found but am still researching. I am 25 and using Nuvaring (vaginal hormonal ring) currently which is working well and gives me minimal side effetcs- but I would rather not use it in the end. (edema, bloat, breast enlargement, anxiety, lighter period, regular cycle,) So, I have been looking into these alternatives:
LadyComp (really want one but need to save up $500 first - or $250 since mypartner will be paying for half-got to be equal there!)

Neem oil and leaf pills (used in Auruvedic medicine India for generations),using pills, vaginal suppositories and spermicide type creams with Neem which kills sperm and lowers fertility with no side effects and is reversible. It is also beneficial to the vagina and non irritating, regular spermicides are very toxic and irritating to the skin.There is a book called "Neem: A Tree for Solving Global Problems" available on Amazon and here:
[www.nap.edu]
and they have been studying it in India and making products to help with their overpopulation issues. Neem is said to also prevent sexually transmitted diseases, HIV, AIDS, and yeast infections while using as a lubricant or spermicide! but the USA hasn't gotten into it yet...and the products are not available out of India it seems) Looks like lots of testing on animals was done...but they were using just a natural oil to do this. (rats, rabbits, monkeys, and humans) here is a site and there is lots of info on a study they did with male soldiers taking it and preventing pregnancy -it is said it can truly be a male contraceptive pill but ist is recommended women use it vaginally too, with the added bonus that is tones and keeps the vagina healthy from infections and diseases.
NEEM SITE:
[www.neem-products.com]

This site references herbal methods (queen anne's lace seeds, neem oil and more):
[www.shwethabhaskar.com]

And I just read about another Indian product today that is a non-hormonal pill you take weekly I think that is a contraceptive pill with what appears to be no side effects! here it is listed with all the other types (hormonal and not)
it is called Centchroman (also called Centron and Saheli) but I just found it and don't know much else yet.
[www.themarriagebed.com]

My hope is to finish this cycle and switch to something non-hormonal.
I am thinking of using the Lady-comp with another method. or this other pill if it looks interesting. I think you can only get it in India too. I found a pharmacy site that Indian's who are living abroad recommended and they look cheap but shipping is high.
[www.alldaychemist.com]

Now I am trying to find out exactly how Auruvedic herbalists recommend you use Neem (dose size and such) I read it takes 6 weeks to become effective. and you use either the oil or leaf tablets.

However I have to admit this is all a lot of extra work form the ring I am using now, and if i really think about it my side effects are minimal (the ring is the lowest dose or hormones of hormonal birth control) and it does not pass through your digestive tract. but i think it messes the ph of your vagina considering i never got a yeast infection before i used it.)

when i was NOT using anything hormonal and was 100% raw my period was starting to get less regular every 5-6 weeks instead or 3-4, and i kept thinking i was pregnant even though i knew i couldn't be. It is nice to know what day your period is going to start and not be worried about it.

Hope this helps people see what else may be out there. and maybe someone has tried some of these and can comment?? Thanks-

Here is some good info about the non hormonal pill Centchroman (also called Centron and Saheli)

I want to find out more about people using it. although i am pretty convinced since it seems women in India have been using it since the 1990's

There is a good part here about why it is not available in the US and not FDA approved - about how the FDA is driven by how much profit they can make and it is good if there are side effects b/c then they can perscricbe more medications for those. and in India birth conrtol pills are available over the counter and cost much less. THese are only about $50 for 12 month supply - the site i found sells packs of 8 for $0.83 and the only side effect found is that your cycle is delayed a few weeks but regular. Oh and it also explains what is in it and how it works- anyone use this or heard of it?

[inheritedhornet.blogsome.com]

I still can't recommend Ovutrac enough. I get a visual confirmation of when my body goes pre-ovulation, so I know to be careful--and I know exactly when it's over and I'm done. I've had it for about three cycles now, and it's great. It's as great as when I got it, and I was ovulating the day I got it.

The price is also awesome. $100/that's it. Slides are reusable. It also lets you know if you are pregnant/something weird is happening, because you can see it in your saliva patterns.

Granted, it doesn't tell me the day my period is going to come, but immediately after ovulating, the patterns change--so at least you know it's coming. =)

count the days after the last day of ovulation. you may find that you can tell exactly when your period is going to arrive

This is something I'm interested in now that I have FINALLY got my partner to agree to me coming off the pill

I love the sound of natural family planning, but to be honest we so do not want a baby at this time that I just don't think that is going to be realiable enough and I will be stressing out worrying all the time.

I like the idea of the IUD - I was wondering if any of you who have not had children have one? I went to the family planning clinic to talk about it yesterday and the nurse said it could be difficult and painful to fit as I have not had any children. What are your experiences?

Thanks

the iud is like a little highway for bacteria to directly enter the uterus. the small "string" that hangs out of the cervical opening breaks the natural seal that closes the uterus off from anything entering. that and the string can poke your partner during sex, not so nice. if you are thin it can sometimes be felt with your hands through the lower abdomen and it can create heavier, more painful periods. if you do choose to go this route be certain to request an iud that doesn't contain hormones, otherwise you might as well stay on the pill.

[Also, there is no HPV test for men, so even if you were a billionaire who was able to pull a few strings and get tested for EVERY std known to man, your male partner could still have HPv and not know it and then suddenly, you have cervical cancer, ooops!]

It's really ironic that having unprotected sex with a partner when you know you have HIV is a felony. But there is no ordinary male test for HPV18 or HPV23, the carcinogenic strains.

There is a means of testing but as yet it is only done in research settings. If a man is really persistent and has cash he can get it done, but he will have to do some homework to find a lab that is willing to do it. I hope that in the future it becomes a part of the standard panel.

As I recently had a new partner, I went to the health department for the full STD panel and I was really chagrined to find that HPV testing isn't even a standard test for females. They look for warts, but a lot of lesions are subclinical (not visible). And some of those subclinical ones might be carcinogenic. Yet you don't get referred for a pap smear unless there is a visible problem and you don't get further HPV testing unless you ask for it.

So I asked for a pap smear, and they said, oh, that is part of the standard annual exam for females, but it is not part of the standard STD testing.

I was like, WTF? So I asked for an annual. I will get it in June.

BTW condoms will reduce but not eliminate transmission of HPVs. There is enough exposed skin where the virus can thrive and plenty of opportunity for contact even with a condom.

Celibacy is so much simpler. Sigh.

Arugula,
I am interested in what low-dose pill works for you? I have tried a few and want something low with the least side effects if I have to! but may try natural planning next if I can't find a pill that doesn't make me feel awful!

Thanks

arugula, i have a question for you too. is there a test available to see what strains of hpv you may have been exposed to? to be honest, i hesitate to take baths with the baby just in case i have been exposed (to anything, really) and can pass it along to her in the water. i am very careful with towels and laundry and everything that way. poor little man came home from school with a cold sore last year (ack! my seven year old has herpes!) which i don't get or have been exposed to but don't break out from so... we are super careful that he doesn't pass that along to anyone, especially the baby. i wonder if i'm being paranoid but honestly, i'd rather that than too lax.

anyhoo, enough rambling. is there a test that you know of and what is it called if you know that too. i'd like to get it just to be sure.

xo.

i second Coconut Chronicles on the info she gave-

used this combination to avoid and to concieve in a timely manner.

the combination of all the different factors really gets you familiar with your body- and the benefit is that there is also the joy of knowing EXACTLY when you get pregnant.

i'm breastfeeding now, but will start cycling again soon, so will be back on the methods.

peace-