Kise'
I will miss your presence here, as I'm sure many others will, as well! You've been a vital and respected voice on the board. I hope you will come back later. I Will for sure stay in touch with you.

Love,

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

I hope you change your mind pak4fun, I have leaarned a few things from your ``postings
``like the Dhail Lama says never give up no matter what is going on.

If Bryan is indeed the only moderator for these forums, then it is high time that some of the other folks with long-term experience in raw foods volunteered to work as moderators..I don't know what the membership numbers are for The Living & Raw Foods forums, but IMO, these boards require more than a single moderator..

Over on Photo Net & The Pentax Forums, where I spend a fair amount of time, there are many more administrators & moderators than there is here..Although this is a relatively small community compared to either of those photography forums, it still needs more than a single moderator..

That being said, I agree fully with pak4fun & others that deleting entire threads is wrong, & should be the LAST resort to calming down a fractious thread..Claiming that time is the determining factor in deleting entire threads, & NOT disciplining the bad behavior of a very few by removing their offending posts is, IMO, a VERY poor argument for what has been practiced the past several weeks..It is more than a little insulting to those posters that have not offended anyone..

I am a slow typist that uses only 2-3 fingers, so any lengthy post of mine is going to require considerably more time to compose than someone with greater tying skills..I have had 4-5 posts deleted over the past month because of someone else's bad behavior..My combined time spent composing those 4-5 posts exceeds 7 hours..

If the Off Topics forum is posing that much of a time problem, than it should be suspended until additional moderators can be brought on board to help Bryan..

Bruce

Thanks Kwan,

Riverhousebill,

I will never give up. Thanks. My mom calls me the family pit bull. So no worries there.

Bruce,

Thanks for your post. . hug >O< !! You're a cool dude!

I really don't want to leave. I don't know how the moderator thing works but it would be so cool if someone wanted to help.

The last post is Pakd4fun.

bruce wow, i always appreciate the info you post and now doubley so knowing how much effort you put into it! i am such a fast typer, i can't imagine how you do it! you always post such thoughtful, informative stuff. so thanks for that.

for the most part, having bryan as the mod here works well. it's only when there is a throw down that it gets messy and that's as much our fault as the person left to clean up the mess. and you know what? even if he did delete post by post there would still be people mad about it and thinking that he should have left this or that and/or deleted this or that. there is no way to make everyone happy with moderating i'm afraid.

it's too bad that so much good got tossed out with the rest but we have to accept the way things work here, whether we agree with it all or not. weigh the pros and cons and figure out if it's worth it to stay or to go. it's "stay" for me.

one more thing, i didn't report any of that myself but we have no idea how many people did, there are many lurkers here that never post at all so... there may have been many who were offended that we don't know about.

in the past we have had big arguements about the merits of discussing non-vegan products, not from a "pro" stance either, just as a balanced arguement of both sides of the issue. many felt that we couldn't have a full understanding of a vegan diet without a thorough knowledge of animal based foods as well. there were tons of posts and threads deleted, a vast ocean of knowledge discarded. and many toes stepped on and members leaving along the way as well. but there you go, it's not allowed in any form and so we have to abide by that or go elsewhere. it was hard to deal with, i remember being very angry myself because i like having the science to back up my understanding of the why and why not. but oh well, this isn't my website and all that anger got my nowhere in the end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2008 11:16PM by coco.

Hey Pakd
I know exactly how loosing the product of your time and passion feels. I have had several such occasions in the past where something I have worked on has disapaeared in an electronic puff of work begone. Just the other day I was writing something on another forum and spent about 20 mins or so composing it, then when I clicked post, the lovely log in mechanism which had timed me out offered to log me back in again, consequently taking me to the log in page and discarding everything on the one that I was currently on.

One thing to keep in mind through all of this though, is that beyound the emotional strength of the loss we feel, is an attachment to the material world which is the inherent cause of our upset. If we did as the buddhist monks advocate and reognise the inherent impermanence of all things, we may allow ourselves to let it dissappear knowing that more can freely flow from the place where it came from.

This is a major recognition and one that takes commitment to realise, but it could possably yield a greater reward from mastering it, than what you would actually get from completing the project in question.

Hi Kise',

I'm sorry for what I said. I don't mean anything bad nor I want to hurt your feelings.

All the Best,
Wong

lightform, right on. your post is just wicked my man, Wicked Good! thanks so much for the reminder. mwah!

Oops.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2008 05:28AM by cyclopsale.

let me try that again under my name.

Lightform,

Thank you for your advice. It is taken to heart. I am not upset about what is lost but am looking toward the future.

Wong,

Thank you for the apology. I don't feel you owe me one, but the gesture is appreciated. You didnt hurt my feelings one bit. All the best to you too!!

Kise'

Pakd!

You're still here!! :-))))))

(yay!)

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

I feel like I should continue to reply on the threads that pertain to this subject and are addressed to me until they are played out.

In the beginning of this thread I was mistakenly called paid 4 fun. Even though this was a complete mistake with no ill will intended someone could very well find it offensive and report it to Bryan. Then this thread, even though it is completely civil, could be completely obliterated. It could happen now, before you finish reading my post. One person offended by a misunderstanding can control all of the time we are spending here. In the case of the political thread that caused all of this, I felt like the topic was so important to discuss. If we can't work out our differences and find compromises and really see other points of view here, how can we expect the people running our world to? In another political thread that had been heated, we ended up with nice things written and agreeing to disagree. It had closure and it felt good and peaceful. That is how it should be. We were all robbed of a peaceful ending in the case of the deleted thread because of the actions of a few.

I think we could have put Elnatural in line without Bryan's interference. We also might have given him some lessons in social behavior to boot. As it ended up, nothing was learned (unless we all learn a lesson now) and everyone suffered.

I know subjects can seem personal but if you know you are living a good life no one should be able to get to you. When someone insults your way of life remember all the good that you are and do and feel pity on them for the lack of love they have. They need compassion for what they are missing in their heart. In another thread the author of "Amazing Grace" was brought up. It would have been very easy to be angry and even hate that man. He did evil things. He had it in him to learn love and compassion and with patience and discipline we might have been able to help elnatural too. He is just a lost soul that needs to be found. Remember to separate his issues from yours. He is not our problem but if we choose, he might be our accomplishment. Sometimes we don't have the time for others and that is when we are really tested, isn't it? If all good things came without obstacles we might not learn a lesson from them. The challenges come to us. We don't always choose them. Compassion is not just a theory, it is an action.

Kise'

I don't feel like commenting much more on this sorry episode, just to say that I agree with most of what pakd4fun has said, especially vis a vis ElNatural.

Cheers,
J

Looks like my latest post was just deleted!

pakd4fun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes we don't
> have the time for others and that is when we are
> really tested, isn't it? If all good things came
> without obstacles we might not learn a lesson from
> them. The challenges come to us. We don't always
> choose them. Compassion is not just a theory, it
> is an action.
>
> Kise'

Amen ! Pakd.

Bryan,

Thanks for what must be a difficult task moderating this forum. It is a process isn't it? And we all learn as we go. But who can fathom all the posts with all their nuances of meaning from people of different generations, genders, countries, cultures, backgrounds; with cause and effect not always apparent or knowable.

Again thanks so much