I had a rather annoying thing happen the other day. I went into one of my favorate shops, and had to use the restroom. The place had two single bathrooms, one labled "men" and one "women". The one that matched my gender was being used, so I was about to use the other one which was available.

Just then a miserable employee told me that was the wrong bathroom. I said, "but nobody is waiting". The employee just said 'you can wait'. Looking rather quiet, stern and in control.This wasn't the manager so I guess the employee was self appointed monitor on gender patrol at that moment.

I was really quite upset, and almost used the bathroom anyway. But I really liked the store, and wasn't sure what trouble might happen if I went in. I could just visualize the employee running to the door and knocking on it, yelling at me to get out, or getting the manager or something stupid like that. I like the store, but maybe less so after this encounter. I sent an email to the company suggesting a unisex bathroom lable.

What do you think?

I personally want to be as separate from everyone and especially separate from the opposite sex when I'm using a public bathroom, so that would skive me.

The employee was probably saving you some misery from the men's room grossness. Shoes sticking to the floor, sticky toilet seat. Besides, the phone numbers on the wall wouldn't really be in your favor, right?
LOL

Rocketship,
Those are things I haven't thought of. The place was/is very clean and new, so that is not really an issue. I think what really got me was that this employee had to exercise some 'power', to be in 'control'. I think that was the only thing this person could have in that place.

The employee also seemed to take some sort of joy in seeing me wait with an uncomfortable full bladder, rather sadistic and lacking in compassion. But after all rules are rules, and the sign didn't match my gender.

Kidraw,
I can understand the possibility about a possible uncomfortable encounter between genders going in and out of the bathroom. Perhaps that was part of the motivation. But, I have gone to another place where there was way more traffic in and out of individual male and female bathrooms, where that didn't seem to be a problem. Everyone knocks before trying the handle, in case it didn't lock. And I have seen women coming out of the mens room, and men out of the womens room. That place is clean and new, so its not really an issue there as far as I can tell.

The only real problem I see in mix ups in gender is when it comes to restrooms with multiple stalls. Individual rooms shouldn't really be an issue, as sometimes there is only one room for everyone. So the issue of mix up would still be there as far as an individual room goes.

Oh, I just remembered traveling to another country. This country had multiple stall bathrooms which allowed both genders. That was pretty strange, difficult to get used to. I'm not sure why they had a set up like that. Saunas were also both genders, along with locker rooms etc...

Traveling to other countries can be a bit of a shock, like the squat toilets at Tehran International Airport. I did a double take but really had to go. Where's the TP, or do I have it confused in my memory with Old Delhi? For those not familiar it is entirely recessed into the floor. It was clean though, worked great and most definitely unisex. A google image --





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2010 04:57PM by loeve.

Loeve,
In actual fact that is an 'ergonomic' toilet. The actual correction position for humans is to squat in a low position. Its the western seat toilets that are incorrect. In the squat position the rectum is in a different position than in a seated position, I believe that is staightened out to allow smooth passage, where as in the seated position its curved. I pointed this out to a friend, and all he could say was he liked to sit and really empty himself out. Well, I guess it only follows that it might take a long time if you aren't biologically correct.

I imagine that I will have a very, very difficult time convincing the western world that its wrong about its toilets. It just seems wrong because its what most people are used to seeing.

You can prop your feet up on a stool or package of toilet paper to simulate the squatting and still have the benefit of a seat.

I prefer unisex bathrooms. Honestly, I sometimes wish kids had their own bathrooms, nothing like someone's little tot peering at you from under a stall while mommy's busy.

I've heard that and of the feet-on-stool method. Another way is to keep the seat down and stand on top of it in the squat position - Easterners comfronted with western style toilets have been known to do that, as well as anatomically correct minded westerners, I've heard discussed on the web. I think it's uncommon for a westerner to be comfortable in the low squat stance (heals on floor), at least when we get older and lose some of our flexibility.

Loeve,
Yes, that is a bit of a problem for some people. When I traveled abroad, I wasn't particularly used to or comfortable with these type of toilets. I was afraid of loosing my balance and falling in. Its more difficult to do with your pants bunched up also. I can't imagine what a woman would do with a long flowing dress. I imagine the best option would be to take it off completely and hang it up until the business is done.

Vegehunter,
I think there is someone that sells some adjustment steps to put along side your western style toilet at home. The effects are supposed to be similiar. Probably a better option for someone that can't squat very well.

Loeve,
I wish I could have my own floor toilet at home now however. I think i could adjust to it with regular use. I don't think thats an option at present. I share quarters with someone 80 years old who would have a difficult time adjusting. Also with someone with a fused bone in the foot. Would be a might be unfair expecting them to adjust to something so different. It could be done, but would be a lot more difficult on them than me.

Mislu Wrote:
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> > Would be a might be unfair expecting them to
> adjust to something so different. It could be
> done, but would be a lot more difficult on them
> than me.

Impossible is more like it. It isn't really about "adjusting" as it is about the physical inability.

Rocketship,
You might be on to something for most people, but I found the two I am living with to be remarkable in their ability to adjust to new circumstances. Most of that is emotional, and some physical. The toilet thing might seem impossible at first, but I don't know.

The 80 year old actually has better flexibility in her hips than me. I haven't seen her squat, so I don't know if she could do it, and get back up. She has increased the amount of times she can go up a flight of stairs. She can do it standing up now. When I first met her she would crawl up the stairs to get up. She is a proud lady that likes as much independance as possible. She just has some physical problems. But no worry, the squat toilet is not going to get installed any time soon!

I just heard back from the business, the management agrees with the employee. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. They say that it would be offensive to the opposite sex if someone was seen walking out of the wrong bathroom.

I replied back that this policy lacks compassion, especially given that the store was basically empty. Also that perhaps they are overstaffed if an employee has time to monitor something like this. And thirdly that I noticed that great businesses don't have such a policy. I didn't include other business names, but perhaps I should have to make a point. But it may not have worked, as it doesn't really matter what other businesses are doing.

I guess I will have to wait if I need to use the bathroom at that place. I don't expect any soothing or validation from the management. If I hear back, I will just say thank you for your time, thankfulness and consideration for my concerns, whatever that means to them.

Mislu

Another thing the company could have said is that they would have had to get an occupancy permit to move in and that would have set out how many customers could be expected to use the establishment and so how many bathrooms, whether it be, say one for employees and one unisex for a very small establishment, or two or more for customers and what sex to accomodate and how to label them. Once the permit is issued and the signs hung at the doors the company might feel pressure to conform to their permit.

Women like to say equal bathrooms are not equal, because women on average take longer to use the facilities so the lines can get long. Women have been known to use the men's room in such cases. They just go for it and put up with the guys bath where they wonder why the men can't aim and so on. I haven't heard of corresponding complaints from men following up a women's use of the facilities. The company is on the spot maybe?

Loeve,
Well, that is somethings I haven't considered. When you gotta go, you gotta go. One doesn't think of static policies and regulations at those moments. Now that my bladder is empty I can give some rational thought to such things.

Maybe there is a point. However, I am sure that an irrational emotional state will strike again when I have a full bladder in some public place, in which case I will be less rational about things!

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I replied back that this policy lacks compassion,
> especially given that the store was basically
> empty. Also that perhaps they are overstaffed if
> an employee has time to monitor something like
> this. And thirdly that I noticed that great
> businesses don't have such a policy.
>

Your response likely will make great entertaining wall-art in their breakroom. As a business owner myself, I can say that it is highly unlikely that they will give another minute of time to the discussion as running a business is a time consuming job. Since they have stated that their policy stands, then for your own peace of mind, just accept it and find peace with it. Your opinion was heard and considered and they chose to enforce their policy.

Living in a democratic nation is great!

Rocketship,
Well, they won't change that is for sure. I am just asking for a little compassion. I am sure that most people have had the experience at least once in their life of being in a public place and having to really use the restroom, with few options. I am glad that they even have a restroom, I will be thankful for that.

Its just a pet peeve of mine the whole bathroom issue in public places. Especially in big cities. Customer only, or sometimes no bathroom at all. I guess its just another thing to take care of. Fear of homeless people using it or people leaving a horrible mess could be contributing to issues around its use. Someone I knew said he was worried about people falling in the bathroom and sueing, so limiting it to customer only reduced that somewhat in his mind. But the fact remains that a customer could slip and fall also.

The practice of saying 'whatever' should be a suggested meditation.

RocketShip,
If you want more entertainment, please read on. About 15 years ago I had another similiar confrontation. This one was much worse. I went into a little coffee shop, and was about to throw out a cup, the owner immediately stopped me, and told me to walk about a block down the street outside and use the public trash can.

I was with my partner, who then asked to use the restroom. She allowed my partner to go, but refused to allow me, because of I almost used her trash bag for trash she didn't sell me. That was pretty nasty. She was just the most incredible miserable controlling witch about it also.

Within a few months the business closed up shop. This was when economics was doing really great, people were spending. It was also in an area of a city where people generally spent alot, especially in 'ma and pa' kind of specialty coffee shops. I guess it was really worth it for her to be 'queen of the trash can' wasn't it? She really had too much time on her hands to worry about that.

I can't take it personally, but if she did that to me, what else was she doing? probably a lot to drive customers away.

Maybe part of the problem is with employee training. My market is staffed by people who say and do unprofessional things, so to me the automatic checkout machines are the best and others seem to agree because sometimes there's a line even though there are human cashiers available. It's a big chain market too with no excuse for having rude employees. The other market in town has no such attitude problems.

I'm a little uncomfortable sometimes in airplanes. The seat belt sign was on for much of the duration of one flight because of choppiness and I felt sick and asked if I could go the lavatory and was told no, that I could use the motion sickness bag. Fine, but a bit more of an explanation would have been nice.

I could write a novel about my confrontations with rude and disrespectful grocery checkout employees. I don't expect much from customer service these days, but I do expect to be treated as though I am there. Too often checkers will be checking me out and start talking to other employees about personal issues or not even acknowledge me as they just start scanning my food items. (Probably because of the amount of fruit and veggies and that means they have to enter codes and work a little and they aren't happy about it.) Once a checker told me my total due and as I was writing the check she started scanning the next customers foods so I got a little bitchy in my head and politely asked "Oh, are we done here?" And closed up the checkbook as though I was going to leave without paying. She didn't get it and paused scanning long enough to tell me my total again and then started scanning the other customer's food again. So I gave her a good long lecture about customer service etiquette, told her to stop scanning another customers products until she had completed my transaction, asked for a complaint form. She was so shocked that her jaw could have bounced off the counter, but she did everything that I told her to do. And my parting words were more of a personal nature in which I told her how rude and unprofessional she had been to dismiss a customer like that. After submitting the complaint form I received a written apology from the manager and a gift certficate. So all was good.

I have no problem using unisex restrooms... I think they all should be!

When in desperate need, I've crossed the corridor and used the men's room before.
I've gotten old enough that I realize that some things are just not worth getting stressed about

Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much
We are all in this together!
Namasté

Loeve,
I find that sort of thing strange, especially given the economy. Any customer should be treated like royalty. Its all too easy to start loosing customers to other businesses.

Mislu Wrote:
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> Loeve,
> Any customer should be treated
> like royalty. Its all too easy to start loosing
> customers to other businesses.
>

True statement. On the flip side... there is a lack of customer loyalty these days also, especially with small business. If a similar store opens closer to their house then that is where the customer will go, if another store is lower priced then that is where they go, etc.

Customer loyalty is a huge discussion topic amongs business owners. We put so much energy into maintaining good customer relations and providing them with excellent service and quality products but then Costco or Walmart starts selling our products at a lower price and *poof* the customer is buying from them. We even have customers return to our businesses and tell us about the great deals they got at such-and-such big box store on a product that they used to buy from us. We have people come into our stores and take an hour of our time learning about a product from our trained educated employees and then we are told "Well, if I can't find it cheaper on line then I will come back and buy one." And customers that will tell friends while in the store "Don't buy that here. You can get it cheaper at X-big-store or X-big-website."

Rocketship,
What can you do? Its annoying I know. I used to sell vacuums, and I hated demonstrations that took so much time, only to have the customer go elsewhere because it was $5 cheaper, somewhere else. Sometimes driving 60 miles away to get it just a few dollars less. Didn't make any sense to me at all.Of course they came back to the store to complain about something being wrong, or it needing servicing, etc, etc.

I could go on and on about some of the weird things that customers did, or wanted. but its probably not that interesting. One thing which was funny was that a woman returned a vaccum because she said her parakeet hated the color green. The vacuum was green, so that must be the reason it squacked when it saw the vaccum. She wanted to try a violet colored vacuum. Who would have guessed that was actually available!!!

We did a special order and when it came in she got the vacuum. The next day she came back, and apparently it didn't like the color violet either. She came to the conclusion that it didn't like the brand, so she was going to try brand x...maybe it will like that brand better and not squack at that. Did she ever think that maybe it didn't like vacuums period? just wacky.

veghunter Wrote:
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> I prefer unisex bathrooms...

I said the exact opposite of what I meant to say. I meant I prefer separate bathrooms for each sex. Sorry!

I prefer separate bathrooms, and prefer the woman's bathroom to be at least double the size of the mens, as after having cleaned bathrooms in 2 different stores for about a year, the woman's bathroom was always the dirtiest (except on a few rare occasions) so a larger bathroom, means it wouldn't get dirty as fast, making it easier to keep clean, the 1 stall womens bathroom was always the worst, always...

I have horror stories from cleaning that bathroom, that when asked about by another employee, I actually got in trouble for telling them! I got out of it by telling the boss "If I can get in trouble for telling another employ about how messy a bathroom is when they ask me to, then I somehow doubt you can legally require me to clean up such messes." and they dropped the coaching from my record, and just instructed me to not tell anyone from then on if I was asked about it again...

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