[www.archives.gov]

"...rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force..."

Very moving, certainly had a way with words. Powerful right to today.

This speech is great. You can pull son many good quotes out of it!

I like to read this scanned copy because it's his original type written speech.

Didn't he actually plagiarize a lot of his speeches?

I just happen to run across this info about MLK for some reason which explains the plagiarizing and other rumors about him -

[www.snopes.com]

That reminds me - I wanted to ask your opinion on 'plagiarizing' situation sometime - at the college level.

I didn't know him as a person, I admire the speach whoever wrote the words. It's a day to celebrate what the speach, and the man represented. Belittling it by digging up past mistakes make by an imperfect human being walking this earth just like the rest of us doesn't make the speach, or the movement, any less than what it is IMHO.

The fact that we have affirmative-action laws which don't judge a person by the content of their character and entirely judge them by the color of their skin, tells me that the dream is not alive. I'll take action over words, thank you.

I don't know exactly what you mean when you ask about plagiarism in college. I always made my students document everything using the Chicago Manual of Style. It's hard to check every paper for plagiarism. Sometimes blatant cases would come up. That would mean a trip to the library for me where i had to do research inorder to present a case. Every time I confronted the student privately and let it die there as long as they stopped doing it. I'm sure it goes on plenty. Unless an essay is plagiarized word for word, you still have to have good writing skills that allow you place the plagiarized phrases and ideas in the proper grammatical and topical contexts. Sometimes students are rushed or just lazy. Showing them that a prof will take the time to burn them usually cures them of it.

I understand that the hippie interpretation of this says that ideas are like water and they just sort of flow together while belonging to everyone. The problem with that is that it doesn't encourage original thought and the next great evolutionary ideas. I always wanted my students to grow by learning from pro scholars while putting their original spin on things. Simply parroting ideas can be a learning experience, but it falls well short of the sort of genius that I optimistically hoped to coax out of my students.


KidRaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just happen to run across this info about MLK
> for some reason which explains the plagiarizing
> and other rumors about him -
>
> [www.snopes.com]
>
> That reminds me - I wanted to ask your opinion on
> 'plagiarizing' situation sometime - at the college
> level.

The pendulum's gotta swing in the opposite direction before it can come to a resting place somewhere near the middle my friend. Things are not fair but they have not been in a long, long while. It is a work in progress. How long did it take for women to be able to vote? For women and people of colour to be recognized as HUMAN? Or children? It wasn't overnight. Be outraged at inequality, and work towards change. Resenting all the change that's come before isn't going to get us very far in that direction. There is no time travel back into the past, or into the future either aside from living each moment as it occurs. There's no perfect answer or quick fix to these things either, we can only muddle through as best we can and learn from our mistakes.

The history of the right to vote in America is actually very convaluted and much more complicated than white men always had it and women and blacks only got it after civil rights struggles. All white men did not have the right to vote until the mid to late 19th century, only a few decades before women achieved suffrage. The white men who were denied the right were typically landless or poor, i.e. the majority. 1870 is typically the year that black men supposedly got to vote across the board. Of course, women got the right in 1920. You see, this is what I dislike about liberals. You think that white men have had it all for eternity, yet the truth is that only the rich, regardless of race or even gender have been the only ones to have the full compliment of rights. I've even read that prior to 1920 and well before landless and poor white men had the right to vote, land-owning women could vote. Are you aware that black people owned slaves in America? Native-Americans did too.

Anyway, it's all very complex and not nearly as saccharine and simplistic as your kindergarten level history lesson would suggest.

Question: How long did it take before the American government stopped forcibly enlisting/enslaving men to fight its bullshit wars? The draft is slavery. Go fight a war against your will and then come home to a job in a coal-mine. Tell me what you think about life then.

Oh, is that what happened to you personally? Very interesting, love to hear your perspective on that reality from an insiders view.

I like reading about what you think I know and even think. That's a fun story.

No, that's not what happened to me personally anymore than you were ever denied the right to vote. You have so much in this life that all you can do is lean on the simplified myth of past "injustice."

I go based on what you show.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, is that what happened to you personally? Very
> interesting, love to hear your perspective on that
> reality from an insiders view.
>
> I like reading about what you think I know and
> even think. That's a fun story.

The last speech that Dr. King wrote was called (Why America May Go To Hell), he was shot and killed before he had a chance to deliver that ...

His speach Beyound Vietnam Still makes this vet shake everytime I hear it.
A great human being MLK.

As a linguist who understands the forensics of linguistics, I find it interesting that both riverhousebill and coco misspell "speach" in the same way. This is an incredibly uncommon spelling error that's rarely duplicated, let alone on the same obscure message board.

Here is a copy of Susan B. Anthony's speech at her trial while being prosecuted for voting in the presidential election.

[www.infoplease.com]


...Surely, the right of the whole people to vote is here clearly implied. For however destructive in their happiness this government might become, a disfranchised class could neither alter nor abolish it, nor institute a new one, except by the old brute force method of insurrection and rebellion. One-half of the people of this nation to-day are utterly powerless to blot from the statute books an unjust law, or to write there a new and a just one. The women, dissatisfied as they are with this form of government, that enforces taxation without representation,—that compels them to obey laws to which they have never given their consent,—that imprisons and hangs them without a trial by a jury of their peers, that robs them, in marriage, of the custody of their own persons, wages and children,—are this half of the people left wholly at the mercy of the other half, in direct violation of the spirit and letter of the declarations of the framers of this government, every one of which was based on the immutable principle of equal rights to all. By those declarations, kings, priests, popes, aristocrats, were all alike dethroned, and placed on a common level politically, with the lowliest born subject or serf. By them, too, me, as such, were deprived of their divine right to rule, and placed on a political level with women. By the practice of those declarations all class and caste distinction will be abolished; and slave, serf, plebeian, wife, woman, all alike, bound from their subject position to the proud platform of equality...

Here is a great site on MLK's message:

[www.jenniferleighselig.com]


...The future of America still depends on the impact and influence of King, not the man, not
the myth, but the message--and in remembering the message in its full glorious meaning.
For that to occur, we must not make King a temple and worship there, but instead see his
work as a template, and continue to define and refine that template and apply it to cultural
transformation and liberation. Nothing less than our collective souls are at stake, and
nothing in the end matters more.

Yes women play their role in war but it hasn't been a frontlines get your ass shot off role. There weren't any women laying around in the trenches of WWI with rats and corpses, waiting to get shelled into oblivion. Have you ever heard of Vera Brittain? When WWI started, she claimed that it was the best day of her life. She contributed a lot to the English war effort and was fortunate enough to survive and become a feminist/pacifist. Unfortunately, her fiance, brother, and two of their closest male friends all died. [en.wikipedia.org]

But hey, all members of the under-classes suffer regardless of race or gender. As long as we acknowledge that, or better yet come together over it, I'm fine.

I look to common and anonymous people for my inspiration. I have zero trust of these deities that have been propped up by the system. No one is better than anyone else. For some reason this guy got to stand in front of a microphone and talk. Does that make him more wise than the handy-man in my apartment building? No.

swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a great site on MLK's message:
>
> [www.jenniferleighselig.com]
> on.pdf
>
>
> ...The future of America still depends on the
> impact and influence of King, not the man, not
> the myth, but the message--and in remembering the
> message in its full glorious meaning.
> For that to occur, we must not make King a temple
> and worship there, but instead see his
> work as a template, and continue to define and
> refine that template and apply it to cultural
> transformation and liberation. Nothing less than
> our collective souls are at stake, and
> nothing in the end matters more.

I glad to hear you look for inspiration in the unsung. I do as well. However, the point of my post was that it's about the message, not the man.

swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ...The future of America still depends on the
> impact and influence of King, not the man, not
> the myth, but the message--and in remembering the
> message in its full glorious meaning.
> For that to occur, we must not make King a temple
> and worship there, but instead see his
> work as a template, and continue to define and
> refine that template and apply it to cultural
> transformation and liberation. Nothing less than
> our collective souls are at stake, and
> nothing in the end matters more.

Yes, that's how I feel about it too.

Everybody is unknown until something makes them known. Maybe times they don't choose that for themselves, it simply happens as people take note.

Speak speach, easy enough. Or perhaps I moonlight as an American Veteran persona online. Stranger things have happened I suppose.

I might just like that there's a peach in there though, I do so love them peaches .

HH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes women play their role in war but it hasn't
> been a frontlines get your ass shot off role.
> There weren't any women laying around in the
> trenches of WWI with rats and corpses, waiting to
> get shelled into oblivion. Have you ever heard of
> Vera Brittain? When WWI started, she claimed that
> it was the best day of her life. She contributed a
> lot to the English war effort and was fortunate
> enough to survive and become a feminist/pacifist.
> Unfortunately, her fiance, brother, and two of
> their closest male friends all died.
> [en.wikipedia.org]
> d_work

I'm missing something, how is she relevant in this?


>
> But hey, all members of the under-classes suffer
> regardless of race or gender. As long as we
> acknowledge that, or better yet come together over
> it, I'm fine.


Agreed, absolutely,

However the cause of the underclass is too big for one person to flag bare, so history has many individuals who take up a portion of that cause. Susan b. Anthony, Martin Luther King, and many others have collectively made advancements toward the equality that our forefathers envisioned.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2013 10:34PM by swimmer.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Speak speach, easy enough. Or perhaps I moonlight
> as an American Veteran persona online. Stranger
> things have happened I suppose.
>
> I might just like that there's a peach in there
> though, I do so love them peaches .


So you finally admit to being a dual personality, moonlighting, peach loving language destroyer? I knew it.

Okay.

swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I glad to hear you look for inspiration in the
> unsung. I do as well. However, the point of my
> post was that it's about the message, not the man.

This is an odd forum though. I've noticed multiple personas that claim to live in the Detroit area, two of which look after "little ones," although the number of kids always seems to change. If I remember correctly, there are 4 posters who just happen to be from the Detroit area. It is curious. There's also the Humboldt County thing.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> swimmer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > ...The future of America still depends on the
> > impact and influence of King, not the man, not
> > the myth, but the message--and in remembering
> the
> > message in its full glorious meaning.
> > For that to occur, we must not make King a
> temple
> > and worship there, but instead see his
> > work as a template, and continue to define and
> > refine that template and apply it to cultural
> > transformation and liberation. Nothing less
> than
> > our collective souls are at stake, and
> > nothing in the end matters more.
>
> Yes, that's how I feel about it too.
>
> Everybody is unknown until something makes them
> known. Maybe times they don't choose that for
> themselves, it simply happens as people take note.
>
>
> Speak speach, easy enough. Or perhaps I moonlight
> as an American Veteran persona online. Stranger
> things have happened I suppose.
>
> I might just like that there's a peach in there
> though, I do so love them peaches .

[blogs.telegraph.co.uk]

"If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live." -Martin Luther King

Well Tam is in Michigan which is not very far from where we were living, Detroit is about 45 minutes drive North of our Erie shore. Not sure who else is in the area, nobody I ever met personally. Oh, one woman who went by the name of earthama and I became friends, she is also a mom but she hasn't been on the site in a few years. We were farm sitting this past year very close to the lake, near the southern most point of Canada aside from Point Pelee. It's interesting to live in Canada at a spot where America is actually to the north. That's confusing to a lot of people, lol.
And though we no longer have a peach festival there is still an annual strawberry fest as well as a smaller strawberry social.

Rock on.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well Tam is in Michigan which is not very far from
> where we were living, Detroit is about 45 minutes
> drive North of our Erie shore. Not sure who else
> is in the area, nobody I ever met personally. Oh,
> one woman who went by the name of earthama and I
> became friends, she is also a mom but she hasn't
> been on the site in a few years. We were farm
> sitting this past year very close to the lake,
> near the southern most point of Canada aside from
> Point Pelee. It's interesting to live in Canada at
> a spot where America is actually to the north.
> That's confusing to a lot of people, lol.
> And though we no longer have a peach festival
> there is still an annual strawberry fest as well
> as a smaller strawberry social.

In all seriousness coco, you are very amusing. I would actually find it hilarious if you were working multiple aliases on here.

[www.infowars.com]
50 Years Later – West Defiles Martin Luther King’s Memory
Tony Cartalucci
Infowars.com
August 29, 2013

...