Hi Brian, i do know similarly dark places and feel for you, as I do for those around you, who are affected by what's going on with you.

From your posts speaks a strength that says you are looking/wanting to take control. May I suggest a book to you, which is very controversial, but also VERY powerful. Jack Trimpey, Rational Recovery
It is very anti-AA, and it sounded like you have tried that route? I dont agree with everything the book says, but I do with the most important points (that you DO have control!) and it might be an interesting read for where you are right now. One point the book reiterates is that the subconscious mind (which he unfortunately calls 'The Beast' has no sense of time and all it knows is the need for creating immediate pleasure/or the immediate discontinuation of dis-pleasure. I know that on my food journey, some of his principles were quite useful.There is a hardwired part in the brain that pressures for immediate pleasure, it's an evolutionary drive, but we are indeed more than just the hardwired part of our brain, so we can be free.



Also: substances like alcohol, high fructose corn syrup, aspartame... change your brain chemistry. Don't feel bad for not being your self while you were on them, or detoxing from them. THe only way is to STAY AWAY from them and cleanse your body. A toxic liver means a toxic mind. Dont trust your mind right now. Trust your gut, and your heart.

Keep whats helpful, toss the rest.

cocoa.
I have that book.
I need to try the AA route now.
I have never really given it a chance.
The least it might provide is getting out of the house.
I "work" at home,and get out very seldom.
I am going to let this board alone now.
I am having another very rough day.

Thanks so much.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2008 07:55PM by Raw1228.

Raw1228 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cocoa.
> I have that book.
> I need to try the AA route now.
> I have never really given it a chance.
> The least it might provide is getting out of the
> house.
> I "work" at home,and get out very seldom.
> I am going to let this board alone now.
> I am having another very rough day.
>
> Thanks so much.



I'm sorry to say, Raw1228, but it was great of you to apologize, but it seems one minute you take responsiblity for your actions and the next, you blame alcohol or other issues. YOU CHOOSE how you act, no one else, noTHING else. If you start to actually empower YOURSELF as opposed to these outside factors that YOU control and only you, then you might be able to heal and take care of yourself. YOU have to do it, though.

Not drugs. Not your upbringing. YOU.

Many people have had tough things happen to them throughout their lives, but you know what - they rise above it, they treat others well, they treat their bodies well, and they act according to the values that they have instilled in themselves.

BE ACCOUNTABLE. YOU CHOOSE HOW YOU ACT.

Booze does strange things to people especially once they get "sick" with alcoholism. They have a sip of booze and then its non stop to a binge. They go right out of their heads and do awful uncontrolled things. A sure test of alcoholism is if after a sip of booze a person can't stop drinking until they are falling down drunk. Its a horrible disease to live with until the alcoholic learns to avoid that first sip of booze. If there isn't a first sip then there is no second sip and no drunken stupor. Most drunks cannot even admit they have a problem let alone figure out its the first sip that trips them up.

Can you find one little, simple thing to make things better? I have found that working from home makes you prone to chaotic life styles and irregular eating, sleeping, resting, working times. maybe one of those might be a good place to start? SOmething thats doable and gives you an immediate lift.

Truth is, you can't do anything, when drunk.

Alcohol being a depressant, one thinks they drink because hey are depressed, but they are depressed because they are drinking...


Staying away form online might be a good idea. It's a virtual non tangible world, and something real (movement? art? pet? safe and healthy person?) might be more helpful right now?


It's a rough place to be. SOmetimes you can't do anything but wait and let it pass.

Hang in there!!

An issue close to my broken heart. I have had, unfortunately, extensive dealings with alcoholics. I couldn't help (arguments about karma and past lives aside) being related to a few... the rest, well, I've learned... I have learned to assiduously avoid. <sigh>

I have learned:

There are two kinds of people -- those who take responsibility for their own lives and those who blame others or other things.

In my experience, those who would hide behind the cloke of "it's my disease" are quite narcissistic and perhaps sociopathic too. Translation: they don't take responsibility for their hurtful behavior. Feel good AA encourages this. I'm not a fan of the 12 Steps. Yeah, yeah, at some point they are all supposed to list their sins ("made a list of all those we had harmed" and then at some other later date made amends "whenever possible."

Here's the hard part: there are some things you cannot make amends for. The hard, harsh truth of that is avoided by hiding behind the "it's my disease" banner that AA (and NA) provide. When you face up to the painful fact that hurting people is so very, terribly, horribly wrong -- whether you consider yourself an alcoholic, occasional drinker, or a teetotaler -- you have the beginnings of compassion. The beginnings.

Alcoholism doesn't make people do stupid or mean things, assaholism does. Being in denial about the root problem (you're an asshole) keeps you sick.

I don't mean you "Brian," I mean YOU whoever you are, drunk or sober.

Of course, all of this is predicated on an understanding of right and wrong, of good and evil. I have seen evil and if you haven't, don't think I'm wrong, think you are lucky.

Back to Brian... whose name I keep spelling "Brain" when I type...

I thought what he did was a public cry for help. It didn't hurt me or offend me. Pictures of pizza make me feel grateful.

I'm going to put my asbestos underwear on now...

I've been thru the alcoholics co-dependency route once with the love of my life. I couldn't live with him and we only had a few years together and a child who is now an adult. I learned a lot of things about alcoholism, & co-dependency thru alanon a group for people that have loved ones that are alcoholic.

He died at 40, his father was an alcoholic too and died from that, his mother also was one too who went thru detox methods many times, costing thousands of dollars.

I hope you will find your way to a clean and sober life, because if not, it's such a huge waste of life, and you will be missing out on the joys of what living brings, and embracing all the pain and hurt instead and then some.

Get clean, sober, healthy, and then make what amends to those you failed and hurt, and don't 'expect' anything in return.

Love,
Prism

For an alcoholic booze is the problem and the source of a bumpy painful life full of bad experiences. The solution is not to drink.

I don't know that booze is THE problem, but the character, nature and painful existence of the person that chooses that vice to hide in and a way to control their pain would find another vice if not booze. It's the choice for many though for whatever reason, but if it wasn't alcohol it would be something else like drugs, gambling, etc.

Love,
Prism

no no,
depression is the issue here tonight.
Low.
Real low.
And its deserved.
wanted to exit.
Need to exit this board.
I know raw foods will help.
I have plenty in my fridge.
I will eat them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2008 02:18AM by Raw1228.

Brian:

We all have ups and down one time or another. Neither phase lasts continuously on an indefinite basis.

As difficult as what you are going through seems to be, keep in mind that beyond the darkest of grey clouds during the day is a beautiful blue sky, after every storm there is a calm and likewise with your low moments, keep reminding yourself:
this too shall pass.

If you feel like it's more than you can handle, by all means tap into the power of prayer for that extra help beyond normal to get you over the hurdle.

Wishing you vibrant health





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2008 02:29AM by Pistachio.

Hello. Brian is you and you are Brian. Suspend the judgement. Brian will figure it out and so will we. Life is a journey.

On a green drink fast today....

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and input.

Congratulations for doing the green drink fast, Brian. Thats awesome.

My suggestion, take or leave: Make sure you do doable things right now, small steps, little steps. Detox (from the juice fast) can mess with your mind. You could eat some cooked brown rice or whatever else helps you to slow down the detox, when it gets too hard. As long as you keep on the alcohol free route right now, you are doing good. Alcohol is a depressant. Staying away from it will help and detox you already.

I trust you know whats right for you, when you are sober. I also, again, think, it might be a good idea to exit from the boards for a little while. so many minds, so many opinions, related experiences, but not quite, cuz you are you. Keep moving, doing healthy things... and do let us know how things progress for you when it feels right for you.

EZ rider said, "For an alcoholic booze is the problem and the source of a bumpy painful life full of bad experiences. The solution is not to drink."

I disagree. It's not like just removing the booze magically turns self-centered, amoral people into compassionate, moral people. Some effort and re-habituation (establishing new habits of behavior) is necessary. That might take place through psychotherapy, meditation, or a spiritual program of some sorts.

I've known too many people who thought all they had to do was stop drinking. They were still narcissists -- albeit, sober narcissists.

AA is not my paradigm. I think AA promotes irresponsibility: "It was the booze." Nope. We put people into prison not booze bottles. There is a reason for that.

I just got my 2-year chip in AA Brian so I TOTALLY get what you're going through and, most importantly, want you to know that you're not alone. It wasn't easy (nor was it my first attempt either) but eventually, with the love and support of lots of others like me, I was able to break free from the bondage of the obsession...and the insanity.

There's been an incredible outpouring of encouragement and love from this forum, and a lot of well-meaning, though sometimes misplaced advice (which I say without a shred of judgment), born simply out of lack of understanding...nothing more. It's hard I think sometimes for non-alcoholics to relate to the concept of being absolutely incapable of controlling the impulse to pick-up (or otherwise act out), even when you know what a horrible, demoralizing, outcome to expect, and even when you really, really, REALLY don't want to but still, inexplicably, can't help yourself. Alcohol, drugs, food, sex, etc. are all just symptoms of a deeper seated problem which centers, like any addiction, in our minds. I can only speak for myself of course, but I know that the reason I turned to self destructive behaviors and mind-altering substances was to relieve the unbearable mental and emotional pain I was constantly in...for no logical reason either if you saw what my life was like on the outside. I absolutely could not bear to sit with my thoughts, to hang out in my own body, for any length of time. I thought I was losing my mind. Drugs, alcohol, food...these all were my solution, that is, of course, until they became the problem.

Anyway, don't mean to get on a soap box here, nor am I suggesting that AA's the only answer by any means, because it's not...at least not for everyone. All I'm saying is for me it worked. And the fact that it didn't for you the first, or the second, or the third or whatever time (I don't know your story Brian) doesn't mean that it can't. Like I said, took me more than once to get it but finally, thankfully, I did. So if you're inclined to give it another shot, I say, go for it!! All I or anyone else can do is to continue to support you and love you and be here for you when you need us. But ultimately it's all up to you.

Blessings & Peace.

nice, lanie! that was a very inspiring post.

Do tears heal?
I hope so.

Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2008 09:52PM by Raw1228.

i agree with you lee. alcohol is like the keys to the car. without them one can still walk, ride a bike, hitch a ride or take the bus to the same ugly location. it's not the mode of transportation, it's where you end up.

and tears are the river of life, they wash away trouble and pain. not all on their own but boy do they help!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2008 09:58PM by coco.

great post Lanie.
As long as people are coming clean I guess I will too. I am a reformed alcoholic. In my youth I was a party person and it was all fun and exciting. I drove a Corvette and ran with a fast crowd and we drank and partied hardy. For me the experience was like a Chinese finger puzzle where its easy going in but then it won't let you go. By the time I realized that my alcoholism had progressed to the point where I couldn't stop drinking after the first sip I was living a very painful and bumpy life. It was one bad day after another. Finally I got enough control and stopped drinking - for awhile. About every 6 months I stupidly would lower my guard and take a sip and wham, down I would go again. After too many such experiences I finally acknowledged the reality of the situation and stopped having that first sip. Now I NEVER lower my guard and I have a lot of years of sober living and every new years eve I thank God for another sober year and pledge to add another. Life has smoothed out now and I look forward to each sober day. I know that alcohol is not an excuse but I also know that for me the bottle was a Jekyll & Hyde experience that I am so glad is behind me.

EZ Rider.
I sure want your success.
I have been thinking today and there was a sudden death in the family last week.
It was my grandmothers brother.
I am not sure why,but it hit me VERY hard.
It was so sudden.
It is exactly the feeling I had back in 1993,when a close friend of mine died from epilepsy .The night before we made a golf date.The next morning he was gone.
A few months later I was having a very lonely Saturday night,and decided to reach for a bottle of red wine my folks had in the cabinet.What a mistake!
Also,I belong to a Star Trek board,and had checked in last week.I had bought a model kit from a man who I was talking to fairly recently,and I found out he checked into the hospital on Wed,with flue-like symptoms.He died Friday evening.He was only 49.
I am in counseling addressing ALL these issues.
I dont know how to deal with how fleeting life can be.
I am tired of running.
Brian



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2008 10:48PM by Raw1228.

Another issue is that I am on the autism spectrum.I moved into my own house 3 yrs ago,and it has proved to be one of the most difficult things I have had to adjust to.
None of this warrants drinking.
I am just relating things about me.

I remember a day..,when I was sitting out in our backyard,and I knew it was one of the best things a person could do,was to eat the "foods of the Earth". Raw living foods.
I do believe in this.
Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2008 11:04PM by Raw1228.

Brian,
I have read all the messages that have been sent to you on this thread. A lot of them brought tears to my eyes. All you have to do is open your heart and let them in. I don't think it's too much. Like the program says, "take what you need and leave the rest".
Debbie

Lanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Alcohol, drugs, food, sex, etc. are all
> just symptoms of a deeper seated problem which
> centers, like any addiction, in our minds.

I totally agree....alcohol or food or sex or whatever can be used as vehicles to try to control the part of our lives that we feel are out of our control.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2008 12:56AM by redstar_38.

Brian my brother, you may want to check out some of the writings of Pema Chodron. She writes about the fleeting life you describe, about the pain of losing our loved ones, the pain of our addictions, and she reaches solutions that may work well for you. She's a Buddhist nun, and she writes brilliantly about one thing Lanie mentions in the above post:

"I absolutely could not bear to sit with my thoughts, to hang out in my own body, for any length of time."

If this sentence hits bone, read Pema Chodron. Or, better, download her stuff into your ipod.

hi shane

maybe i'll read pema's stuff

i lost two friends recently

and i just couldn't comprehend it

like brian, it shakes me up to see how fleeting life is

one minutes its there

next minutes its gone

hey brian

nice to see you are on the green juice kick

greenies.... juicing

NOW yer talking

i LUV green juice

but it can make u cry

if u are releasing all those feelings

yeah... tears can heal

so just cry yourself a river

then swim into the ocean of mercy

Here's a couple of related threads:

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

This booze posting has caused me to re-visit a painful part of my past which I am so grateful I got through it and it has been over now for many years.
Brian -- I wish you well and I hope you find your way to put alcohol and this experience behind you. Just take life one day at a time.

EZ rider

AWESOME achievement!

here is a star for you! ( shaped out of ripe star cut mangoes and decorated with cherimoya skins)

Shane,
Thanks for the lead to Pema.
I read a little of her writings.
I hate to admit I dont,and probably will not ever,have an Ipod.
I dont even have a cell,but I should get one for traveling.
Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2008 08:24PM by Raw1228.