I didn't watch the video (I don't plan on it) but I'm sure Mr. Mason signed something allowing his information to be released.

Clement is somewhat of a fundy and has used inflammatory language & overstatment for years (usually in regards to the so-called perils of meat eating but to a lesser degree against any other type of veganism than the kind he promotes). Of course he's going to use the results to promote his agenda, what did you think, he was just reaching out in the spirit of brotherly love? If it was some meat eater's blood he was pointing our deficiencies in and not our fellow board member's the responses here would be far different.

This can be a learning experience for David. Take what is useful & leave the result. Mixing up one's approach to see what changes is always a good thing. Curiosity & adaptability are one of the things that make humans so great.

Waiting for deficiencies to become acute & symptomatic before making adjustments is not the best approach. But neither is getting all scared.

Ha! ha! Sorry I have not chimed in. It's been a rather busy time for me for the past couple of weeks (I was informed I was being laid off....along with a few other members of the One-Stop Career Center...where I did work here in Sebring, FL). So: Plenty of small details and stacks of papers to juggle through, as you can perhaps imagine. Instead of worrying, I have just been spending the past week on the beaches of Sanibel / Captiva with friends instead. It's all good.

-I've reviewed the results, along with Dr. Clement's comments on those results, and I have no problem with any of those items. The slight deficiencies in A & D were only about 4% of the bottom end of normal.....and I am certainly NOT immune from the stress related to being cooped up in an office instead of outside in the sun like I should be! Ha! ha! There also seemed to be some mild case of anemia - although I certainly FEEL fine, and would have no problem running a few laps around the track with my meat-eating friends! So: I'm not over-ly worried about this particular item either.

-I DO wish to re-iterate that I am a supporter of Dr. Clement and his mission / program. I found his willingness and desire to objectively investigate to be admirable and do-able....and was happy to help in any way that I could. Shout-outs also go out to Rich (Activeinternet) who is a really cool guy. I firmly support the type of diet he serves at Hippocrates (from what I have been been able to observe and research) as being what is probably most appropriate for those that are seeking health...especially from the ground up!

-I dunno....I certainly am rather pleased with my results overall.......which indicate good protein, fat and b-12 levels/profiles.

-From a personal opinion/standpoint, it's fairly easy to take a chunk out of my life.....say diet...from a long-term fruit guy like me......and to make some judgments. People are certainly free to ask me questions in any number of ways (e-mail being the easiest) to get the specifics. But I KNOW that people that are doing the RIGHT things in their lives (for THEM) don't NEED justification from me or anyone else.....and don't NEED to hear a consensus before doing what is right for THEM.

-I'll re-read the threads and be happy to answer any types of questions or inquiries. And I KNOW I get a ton of support from F1, Bryan and the other cool folks on this board....so it's all good.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Dr Clement, in my opinion, isn't being truly objective. He highlights results that supports his agenda. I don't think he comes across as a person of integrity (in that video clip). Why didn't he mention that b12 levels were normal, I wonder? Or other parts of the test that were? And he dismisses Fruitarianism after testing one person. What's up with that?

Anyway, personally it doesn't bother me what the results are. I wouldn't have changed anything in my diet even if all the tests results were negative. I eat only what I crave (at present mostly fruits, with some greens, nuts and seeds and juices thrown in from time to time ) with scant regard for recommendations for a particular syle of eating. On the other hand, I don't necessarily condemn any of them cause I haven't tried them. I follow my body signals and eat accordingly with absolutely no thought for nutritional content. I don't care if I live 5 more years or 50 (I'm 45 now), I'll be satisfied. For me, it definitely not about putting years to my life but about putting life to my years. The great, great benefits I am experiencing now from eating the way I am is the only proof I need and I ain't changing a thing unless my instincts tell me to.

If DZM chooses to change some things in his diet/life as a result of this test, or even if he doesn't, either way I fully support him. I think it was admirable of him to volunteer and I wish him all the best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2008 06:14AM by brian1cs.

OMG! Even though I knew that Mr. clement had an agenda to test fruitarian but I never expected that Mr. Clement would go that low.

And what is the real story behind losing(or some reason of not getting) result of DMZ's first blood test or was it too good to be true?

I don't know what DMZ was thinking when he agreed to be tested by Brian Clement for blood test. He fell right into Clement's trap. But ok I respect his(DMZ's) decision but definately not agree with it.

Do you really think that Brian Clement who's business is based on anti fruit message will use a fruitarian blood test result to prove himself wrong or to use it to promote his anti fruit stance. Ofcourse the latter.

Now, can we see blood test result of Mr. Clement please.x

Ok I have to apologize again for not checking out the vid and I know this is old news now but I wanted to share my thoughts on this......well in my defence I tried but I only got as far a the first minute, if that....infact the whole feeling of the vid, Clements face, etc, just didn't sit well with my spirit for some reason and I had to switch it off, it was a struggle for me to watch and one thing that really struck me hard was that david wasn't referred to as even being human/a person....he was constantantly refered to as a "FRUITARIAN" and from what I saw it seemed to me like they were very careful to connect the word "FRUITARIAN" with "FAILURE".....I could be completely wrong because I couldn't stomach seeing the rest of it because it had such a weird feeling to it!

F1

Just to share some thought and experience. For me, that test means nothing. How can you test somebody health on one single blood test. That's completely unscientific. The error rate on such test is large, and you need to repeat them over several days to get a real overview, and not a biased one. Clement protocol would not pass any editor in any medical journal for sure. I worked in research, and I can tell you this is not research, just BS to try to prove something you believe, and want to sell in that case (which is worse).
Now, a little story. While working at the university, I had some health insurance with one full checkup a year. I decided to try it after being raw mostly fruits for 2 years, and to test the meds as well to be honest. So I went to the blood test after drinking a fair amount of water. And all my results came low. I was anemic, low protein, b12 deficient since I told them I was vegan, and so on. I told them I had drunk lots of water before, that I didn't have much body fat because when you ride bike over 18 mph average speed for a minimum of 30 miles a day, plus swimming half a mile a day, and running 10 miles on saturday and sunday, you can hardly have much body fat, and be anemic... But they didn't listen to me, just looked at their test, which was fake. They decided to run another test, testing for me stuff and b12 especially (since they believed that as a vegan I could only be anemic due to low b12 levels). And I have my blood tested again within 3 or 4 days. And guess what, that time I wasn't anemic, my b12 levels were all fine and so on...
So Clement's protocol is BS, it's not professional. And even if it was, with the results, the minimum would be to conduct a secondary test to confirm them. Also, why does Clement use standard medical test when they tend to deny standard western medicine at the same time...
Dave, one advise, don't drink OJ before your blood test. I remember reading you drunk a OJ before the test. That's enough to fake the results. If you don't drink it before the test, you'll be just fine.

Raw Fruit Festival
[www.raw-fruit-festival.net]
Health, Fitness and Fasting Retreats in Spain
[www.fit-in-nature.net]

sgc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to share some thought and experience. For me,
> that test means nothing. How can you test somebody
> health on one single blood test. That's completely
> unscientific. The error rate on such test is
> large, and you need to repeat them over several
> days to get a real overview, and not a biased one.
> Clement protocol would not pass any editor in any
> medical journal for sure. I worked in research,
> and I can tell you this is not research, just BS
> to try to prove something you believe, and want to
> sell in that case (which is worse).
> Now, a little story. While working at the
> university, I had some health insurance with one
> full checkup a year. I decided to try it after
> being raw mostly fruits for 2 years, and to test
> the meds as well to be honest. So I went to the
> blood test after drinking a fair amount of water.
> And all my results came low. I was anemic, low
> protein, b12 deficient since I told them I was
> vegan, and so on. I told them I had drunk lots of
> water before, that I didn't have much body fat
> because when you ride bike over 18 mph average
> speed for a minimum of 30 miles a day, plus
> swimming half a mile a day, and running 10 miles
> on saturday and sunday, you can hardly have much
> body fat, and be anemic... But they didn't listen
> to me, just looked at their test, which was fake.
> They decided to run another test, testing for me
> stuff and b12 especially (since they believed that
> as a vegan I could only be anemic due to low b12
> levels). And I have my blood tested again within 3
> or 4 days. And guess what, that time I wasn't
> anemic, my b12 levels were all fine and so on...
> So Clement's protocol is BS, it's not
> professional. And even if it was, with the
> results, the minimum would be to conduct a
> secondary test to confirm them. Also, why does
> Clement use standard medical test when they tend
> to deny standard western medicine at the same
> time...
> Dave, one advise, don't drink OJ before your blood
> test. I remember reading you drunk a OJ before the
> test. That's enough to fake the results. If you
> don't drink it before the test, you'll be just
> fine.

I tend to agree on that because I've had the same experience, I've been for many check ups and had blood work done a few times in the last 3 years and nobody knew I was a Fruitarian, my bloodwork and general health has always come back good according to these tests, one time I went for a health check up and when I went back after 3 days to get my TB results back I was told my blood work was perfect but I had TB because the spot/bump was over a certain size....the problem was that they had not told me that I wasn't supposed to scratch the bump/site of the injection because that's how they determine if you have it or not, so when I went back for the results and they measured the site of the injectuon and of course because I was scratching on it it was bigger, so they said I had TB and that I had to get a chest x-ray to see how far gone it was, I tried to tell them that I was scratching on the injection site and that's why the bump was bigger but they would not listen, I went for chest x-rays and the lady told me I had an extremely clear chest and had no TB at all.

I think if your going to try to prove that Fruitarianism is not healthy you need to do tests on every Fruitarian living and not just on one person with one test.

If you was to test an animal in the wild I'm sure you would find them short of some nutrient based on the availability of certain foods that carry that particular nutrient but that animal would still be healthy and able to chase down and catch that source of nutrients when the opportunity arose, to me just because David was short on nutrients at the time of testing it doesn't mean he's not made up for it since or is unhealthy.

I think Mr Clements is simply planting seeds.

F1





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2008 02:11PM by fruitarianfitness.

I have a friend who's about ready to begin Kidney Dialysis.
I recommended the Hippocrates Health Institute to him as an
alternative. I believe flushing his kidneys with Wheatgrass
Juice would heal them. After looking at the HHI website, my
friend, who is his mid-80's, has decided to go with Traditional
Medicine. At least I tried......WY

from what i understand, the human body is self healing.

like broken bones
(why don't we need wheatgrass for broken bones>

and cuts and scrapes

what physiological or logical basis is there for the kidneys not being self healing?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what physiological or logical basis is there for
> the kidneys not being self healing?

A Pathological Condition is self-repairing
only when the Destructive Practices are eliminated. That
goes for all of us.
As long as my friend runs Animal Protein and Soft Drinks
through his Kidneys, they will never Heal on their own,
and Dialysis will only make matters worse. But we know that....
why doesn't he?....WY

[ the human body is self healing. ]

To a point, yes. But, chronic abuse leads to chronic problems. The most common reason for kidney failure/disease is long-standing type II diabetes, as in 15-25 years or more. The glomeruli in your kidneys are tiny filters to keep needed proteins in your blood and to let through waste products. When the blood is chronically polluted by high glucose and also under high pressure, these little glomeruli get damaged. Long-term damage is irrepairable.

Wheatgrass Yogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what physiological or logical basis is there
> for
> > the kidneys not being self healing?
>
> A Pathological Condition is self-repairing
> only when the Destructive Practices are
> eliminated. That
> goes for all of us.
> As long as my friend runs Animal Protein and Soft
> Drinks
> through his Kidneys, they will never Heal on their
> own,
> and Dialysis will only make matters worse. But we
> know that....
> why doesn't he?....WY


very true. that's why i was responding to the statement about wheatgrass juice healing the kidneys.

arugula Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [ the human body is self healing. ]
>
> To a point, yes. But, chronic abuse leads to
> chronic problems. The most common reason for
> kidney failure/disease is long-standing type II
> diabetes, as in 15-25 years or more. The glomeruli
> in your kidneys are tiny filters to keep needed
> proteins in your blood and to let through waste
> products. When the blood is chronically polluted
> by high glucose and also under high pressure,
> these little glomeruli get damaged. Long-term
> damage is irrepairable.

agreed. i didn't claim that there didn't exist a point of no return. i stated that the body appears to be self healing and i was trying to counter the common philosophy of humans thinking that exogenous things can and should be taken to heal. even if it could be shown to be efficacious, conservative means should be employed first one would think.

I wish you two women wouldn't gang up on me like that. My friend
has not reached the 'Point of No-Return'. In fact, the medical
profession advised him to begin Dialysis before he started feeling
'Bad'. Kind of reminds me of women having their Breasts removed, as
a preventative measure, before Cancer is detected......WY

Wheatgrass Yogi,

You said it with "A Pathological Condition is self-repairing only when the Destructive Practices are eliminated." - I am in total agreement with this.

However, the absence of wheatgrass juice was not one of your friends destructive practices.

What were the destructive practices were eating animal products and highly processed foods. Perhaps another destructive practice was not getting enough rest and sleep. Eliminate those destructive practices, and there will be some real healing going on.

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....the absence of wheatgrass juice was not
> one of your friends destructive practices.

True, but my Point is that my friend could
be Healed at the Hippocrates Health Institute in West
Palm Beach, FL. Nevermind how Brian Clement came off to
everyone in his Video Attack of Fruitarianism.....WY

Wheatgrass Yogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish you two women wouldn't gang up on me like
> that.

?

I was responding to Fresh. No disrespect to you or
her was intended.

But I don't mind if anyone reads disrespect for
the disrespectful in my posts, which in this
discussion is Mr. Clement.

WY,

my intention, while rarely understood, is to discuss ideas. there's no personal attack from this end.

instead of changing the subject or becoming defensive, another option would be to respond to the point being made which was bodily healing and wheatgrass. i'm not trying to get one over on you or diminish you. i sometimes do try and shift conceptual frameworks that seem to be invalid. you could either present evidence or logic in support of it or concur upon reflection that there is indeed no support and its possibly a myth or unsupported cultural concept.

>
> True, but my Point is that my friend could
> be Healed at the Hippocrates Health Institute in

great! that may be true. i was simply giving an alternative view as to the curative powers of wheatgrass. we tend to carry medical model concepts into our newfound health philosophy.

and it could also be true that he/she could be healed in his/her own home. doesn't require HHI or wheatgrass, although i understand why that is suggested to those who are unwilling to educate themselves



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2008 07:50PM by fresh.

I want to thank those who have responded here to the video. i have learned much from the various ideas shared. i was very interested in what brian would come up with, and it seems he has exposed himself to an extent.

I read the original thread where DZM first reported the results (incl. the very interesting B12 result)- and was disappointed that Dr Clement didn't point out the otherwise excellent results as opposed to making the 2 deficiencies sound worse than what they were?

Why is it I read everywhere that fruitarians/raw foodists are so prone to vitamin D defiency? Is it because they're considered more at risk by doctors/nutritionists because they wont be eating vit D fortified foods such as cereal, bread etc?

David reported:

Vitamin D: 78 vs. >83% (about 5% off)
Vitamin A: 65 vs. >70% (about 5% off)
Total AntiOxidant Function: 36.0 vs. 39% (about 4% off)

That's it! thats the deficiency?

what a joke.

firstly, they are not even deficiencies
The numbers are trivially under the supposed ideal ranges


where is there a connection between the small variance and a real negative health outcome.

secondly which vitamin d number is davids? 78?


"what should the Vitamin D level be? Reviewing recent literature suggests the following:
* No less than 78 nmol/l (31 ng/ml)[15].

i don't know why the value is shown in percentage above by david.

if i'm understanding the numbers, his are in range.

so where's the deficiency?

David, Don't buy into that deficiency rhetoric !

even all that stuff about irregular cell shapes in the video is nonsense as far as i'm concerned, without further detail.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2008 10:14PM by fresh.

Ha! ha! Yes. Thank you Fresh. In any event, we pursue our dreams....even in the event that my blood turns to orange juice....heh...heh. People project their desires....and I am their mirror. Is this not so?

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

People project their desires....and I am their mirror. Is this not so?

-David Z. Mason


You say the most beautiful things David. Yes, I think that is so.

If you were living how you would be happiest would you be inside all day? Maybe a fruitarian does need more sun than a SADer. My lifestyle leaves me free to be outside as much as I like and I am naturally drawn to the sun.

I feel it is irresponsible to make statements of fact based on one man with one lifestyle. We can certainly learn from these tests, thanks again for doing it David, but we should never base a belief on the results. We are lucky to know David more intimately and can make decisions for our own diets based on more information than many people seeing this video.

I think the results were fantastic.

Has Brian, or someone else on his diet long term been tested and publicized the results? It would be interesting to compare the results.

I just emailed my friend this page 2. I asked him not to get
Mad at me. We're pretty good friends and often play Duplicate
Bridge together. I asked him to go to Hippocrates Health Institute
for Healing so I could keep him around as a Bridge partner for
many more years. So my motives were a tad selfish, as well as trying
to be helpful......WY

pakd4fun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Has Brian, or someone else on his diet long term
> been tested and publicized the results? It would
> be interesting to compare the results.

I show and test my results everyday....you can go on my website and see, I have vids and pics showing my results...like I say I've had many medical check ups and they have come out perfect but those mean nothing to me, what does matter to me is that I'm happy, healthy and feel great/fit and able to do many physical feats of strengh and agility.

To me that's the best results anybody can offer.

F1

pakd4fun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Has Brian, or someone else on his diet long term
> been tested and publicized the results? It would
> be interesting to compare the results.

I show and test my results everyday....you can go on my website and see, I have vids and pics showing my results...like I say I've had many medical check ups and they have come out perfect but those mean nothing to me, what does matter to me is that I'm happy, healthy and feel great/fit and able to do many physical feats of strengh and agility.

To me that's the best results anybody can offer.

F1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


F1,
You are not on the HHI diet, are you?

How I feel is what matters to me. I would like to be aware of things to look out for though. Especially with my kids.

i can't watch the video right now as i have no internet at home but i will as soon as i can... in the meantime i do believe that you can get vit D from plan old button mushrooms that have been exposed to sunlight for about 15 minutes. arugula, back me up here, this is true is it not?
in the meantime, a little sun in the morning and the afternoon seem to be working just fine for me

i thought david's results were pretty terrific. i wasn't expecting pure perfection in terms of numbers but it got darn close to that! certainly better than any sad eater, that's for Sure!

pakd4fun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pakd4fun Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Has Brian, or someone else on his diet long term
>
> > been tested and publicized the results? It would
>
> > be interesting to compare the results.
>
> I show and test my results everyday....you can go
> on my website and see, I have vids and pics
> showing my results...like I say I've had many
> medical check ups and they have come out perfect
> but those mean nothing to me, what does matter to
> me is that I'm happy, healthy and feel great/fit
> and able to do many physical feats of strengh and
> agility.
>
> To me that's the best results anybody can offer.
>
> F1
> --------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------
>
>
> F1,
> You are not on the HHI diet, are you?
>
> How I feel is what matters to me. I would like to
> be aware of things to look out for though.
> Especially with my kids.


Oh no I'm not on Brians Diet.....I'm on Mother natures diet, ain't no better "guru" than mother nateure....

I'm sorry I mis-read your post!

F1

F1,

It's cool. I thought you read it wrong, wanted to clarify. Glad to know you have good numbers as well as feeling wonderful.

pakd4fun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> F1,
>
> It's cool. I thought you read it wrong, wanted to
> clarify. Glad to know you have good numbers as
> well as feeling wonderful.

Yeah, I think folks need to realise that this "diet" isn't supposed to be perfect, especially in this day and age....I'm not gonna tell you I feel "euphoric" or "wonderful" every single day like the guru's tell you because I don't, "great" is about as good as it gets for me....also I'm still human, some days I need lighter training sessions, some days lifes stresses gets the better of me and some days people still get me mad....this "diet" is what it is and at the end of the day all it is is eating raw food, now the "lifestyle" is a totally different story......


F1





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2008 09:42PM by fruitarianfitness.