Hi all,
I agree with Marcos. I have done colonics and I know sometimes you may feel less comfortable as the plaster is all peeled off the walls of your colon but how can anyone possibly believe they are healthier with it left there!!!

From my own experience I know that even the best raw foods do not always remove all the mucus and toxins that have been stored in the colon, layered on it like plaster on a wall. A brief example is before doing colonics the fresher and healthier the food I ate the less that would come out in the natural way. In other words if I slipped and pigged out on cookies or pizza or pasta or veggie burgers or whatever I would have a much larger movement and when I ate fresh raw fruits and veggies I would get feeling really sick and well start wondering where in the world it was all going. I remember for days eating lots of prunes and trying to eat the most cleansing diet and it would all just slow down till an almost complete stop.

The reason being IMO is that the good fresh food was stirring up so much toxic matter that all my eliminative organs were getting drowned in it and suffocating and it was paralizing the nerves stopping them from functioning properly. Some enemas would make it all just come rushing out and I mean a hell of alot of waste too. How can anyone say its best to just leave it accumulating till we get so sick we just can't breath as we just drown and suffocate in our own waste.

It has always made me so sick to read all those on here who oppose helping with colonics and enemas. What they seem to always fail to see is that without colonics and enemas only those people with good strong digestive systems and cast iron eliminative organs can get well then. Ones with weaker systems and elimination problems just get sicker and cause how on earth can our inner organs possibly get better or regain any degree of strength and elasticity if they are just being smothered in all the horrifying toxins and waste being stirred up and sent down there to help feed and nourish colonies of worms and parasites!!!

How can the elimination organs ever work at their best if they have to keep feeding on the poisons that are trapped within. You can't regenerate a sick colon if its stuck filled with all those toxins. It paralizes the nerves and causes a back up adding more and more toxins as time goes on. Most peoples colons are starving for nutrients and they need nourishment to heal and work properly again and eliminate better once again like it should. It really needs to be cleaned and it needs some rest and nourishment to restore it to health. The best possible way is to clean it out and give it a bath in some nice healing chlorophyll preferably in the form of fresh speltwheatgrass. This will heal and nourish the colon and help restore natural peristalsis.

Hi Ally,
you wrote<<<<<<<<<<<<<<that Ann (Wigmore) believed in colonics for those "who were COMFORTABLE with them". Maybe that implies that Ann believed that if you're not comfortable with them, it's OK not to do them.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Actually Ann Wigmore believed they were essensial to your health and if you were uncomfortable with them encouraged you to really think about the reason for doing them and to try to get past it for for the sake of improving your health

<<<<<All this talk about wheatgrass implants may leave you feeling a bit squeamish. If you have a psychological barrier against doing implants and enemas, try to remind yourself of their purpose - to reverse the damage and draw out accumulations of debris that may be lurking inside of you. If you can bring yourself to use these cleansing techniques, you will find relief and a sense of internal cleanliness that is refreshing. Besides the removal of toxic and morbid matter from the colon is essential to healing">>>>>>

from Ann Wigmore's "The Wheatgrass Book"

That's a great book!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the info sing!

Wheatgrass, it does a body good!!!

Singingraw,

HI and Aloha.

My opposition is mainly to the full-on machine generated colonics which seem extreme to me, and also to the regular (as opposed to occasional) use of enemas.

I am not at all squeamish: most hands-on Grannies are not . I have done quite a few enemas in the past, BUT at one point my body became DEPENDENT on them. In my sordid past it got to be too easy for me to get sucked into doing an enema to try to avoid the consequences from eating cooked food.

For example, say I wanted to eat a bowl of rice and vegetables (I love food). I would rationalize to myself that, oh well, I'll take an herbal laxative, or I'll do an enema, and that will wash me out and I'll be OK. That's when USE becomes ABUSE.

It's partly the faulty thinking itself that causes dependence, but also, the body will actually become physically dependent. I believe that's as it should be, and that Nature intended for the psychological and the physical to go hand and hand. We learn better that way.

When I learned not to consider enemas or laxatives as any kind of regular option, it became easier to stay raw because I knew I would have to face the consequences for eating cooked food.

So that would be my main concern with enemas, that instead of using them wisely, they could become somewhat of a crutch as they did for me. And that could lead to less healthy body functions and a less healthy body.

Like I said though, I'm open to MAYBE TRYING an enema the next time I waterfast. That's because the last time I fasted, I got very sick to my stomach around the fifth day. It didn't go away until I ate fruit on the evening of the eight day. I had intended to fast longer, but I could not bear to go through another night because of the sickness I was experiencing.

I think it's very possible that the amount of junk brought into my digestion from the fasting was more than I could handle, and an enema could have helped. I do want to stress here though that this is just CONJECTURE. I haven't tried an enema during a water fast. But just as an experiment, when and if I water fast again, then I MIGHT.

Given my previous experience with enemas, I would draw the line on them and make a hard and fast rule that I would not do an enema unless I had fasted first a full day and night (36 hours). That rule would hopefully prevent me from thinking I could eat something bad and just wash it on out the next day.

Actually, fasting or any kind of more extreme cleansing method (including Master Cleanse) could be abused in the same way.

Others reading this may be tempted to assume that the reason I had so much trouble on my last fast is that my diet is not clean enough or raw enough. I disagree. For about the last 15 years, I've eaten cooked food no more than 5 times a year total (usually only a cooked vegetable), and recently there was 2 1/2 years TOTALLY raw. I don't eat any of the cooked foods that are sometimes associated with raw like nutritional yeast or miso, and I don't eat anything that has been frozen (which to me seems just like cooked because the enzymes are destroyed). I have been strict vegan (NO backsliding whatsoever) for 20 years this October.

I am open though to the possibility that I eat too much fat in the form of nuts and seeds, and I may experiment with that some.

On the other end of the spectrum (so to speak), for those of you reading this post who believe strongly in regular enemas, you might try skipping a few of your regular enemas just to see if you are able to evacuate without them sufficiently enough to avoid discomfort. If you DO experience discomfort without the enemas, then you might consider modifying your enema schedule to allow you to go more often on your own.

To me, correct diet requires a lot of personal experimentation, an open mind, honest self-analysis, and a good deal of fine tuning to get it right.

Sincerely, -Ally



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2006 09:27PM by Ally.

PS to Singingraw et al,

If Ann W. had a different experience with regular enemas than I did, then more power to 'er. Same with Dr. Walker, etc.

Best wishes, -Ally

Dear Rawmark,

Although I'm OPEN to the idea (NOT endorsing it) of an occasional enema (not machine-generated colonic), under certain special conditions, I do think it might be exaggerating a little to say that if a person doesn't do enemas or colonics, then they have parasites. That appeared to be what you were saying on page 2.

Several years back, when I was practically at death's door, I submitted a stool sample to a clinical lab and it came back positive for a rare amoeba. After taking the prescribed medication, I was retested. The results came back negative, and I soon afterwards recovered my health. As a precaution, I was lab tested for parasites every year for 3 years. I did not do any enemas at any time during the 3 years after my recovery, and I tested negative each time.

I'm also interpreting from your posts that you believe doing enemas would get rid of parasites if a person had them. For me that wasn't the case, since I DID do enemas when I (unknowingly)had the amoeba, and apparently that didn't help in my case.

Maybe I wasn't doing it right, but if a person could get rid of any (or all?) parasites just by doing enemas, that would be pretty easy to prove. All you have to do is find people who tested positive for a variety of parasites, give them a certain number of enemas, maybe put them on a specific diet if you thought that was another important element, and then test them again to see if they got rid of the parasites. Since most (if not all) parasite eggs cannot be seen by the naked eye; and since some parasites, like amoebas require more sophisticated analysis to detect than others, you would have to have clinical lab tests before and after the enemas to confirm your results.

Even if you had good results from the enemas, it's doubtful that enemas would be effective as a COMPLETE cure in ALL cases. Do you know of any such studies? If so please share, because I'm open.

Without clinical evidence to back it up, it's possible someone maybe sold you a bill of goods. No offense intended. I admire your veganness, hey.

But what you are saying in regards to parasites is contrary to my own personal experience.

If you can reference any such clinical study, please do. I'm interested.

Thanks for the great discussion.

Best wishes, -Ally



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2006 12:09AM by Ally.

here is a thaught, maybe the enima or colonic causes
parasites. how positive are you that what ever it was
that you introduced in to you're colon was 100%
completely and positively free from parasites.

the human body can deal with a lot of things when
they are introduced normally through the mouth.
there are many organs and systems that specificly
target forign material and parasites. how do you
know what would happen if these things were
introduced directly into the colon, an organ
that takes food already processed through
the stomach ,liver ,small intestine and other
systems we don't fully understand.

you are introducing forign material ,water
coffe, raw grass, whatever someone says might
work to clean yer inside.

is there a thread discussing sanitation of
the water ,may be you should boil the wheat
grass before you use it as an enima. we all
know wierd animals live all over the place
ie dust mites small bugs amoebas bacteria
just because grass is green doesn't mean
grass is clean. go out side and grab a hand
full of grass and see how many spiders ants
bettles live there. and those are just the
ones you can see.

seriously if you don't get sick from an enima
count your self lucky. you dodged a bullet.

Most people that do home colonics or enemas know to use purified water. So, there's no way that you would be introducing any waterborne parasites via an enema unless you use regular tap water. This said, the problem with parasites is that they munch and live on stuff that is clinging to your colon. Specifically what we're speaking of is mucoid plaque. Now, there is no way for a test to determine if you're parasite free unless you're also mucoid plaque free. The tests that are done don't have a way to screen through the thick, nasty layer of mucoid plaque. This is why there was a woman that posted on Dr. Natura that stated she was totally disgusted when she saw a 13 inch tapeworm come out of her after she doubled up her dosage. Also, the color was brown. How could this be? Well, that tapeworm was hidden deep inside that mucoid plaque. Do you think that a standard test would have found the tapeworm, hookworms or any of the other parasites hidden in her mucoid plaque? Not! No way. The standard tests, according to an M.D. friend of mine can only see or detect parasites that are floating around on the top. This means that they have to be sitting on the top of the mucoid plaque to be detected. Oh, what about all those eggs they lay? Come on guys and gals. Get real. We all have them. Mike Nash, who has written two excellent books on health and raw foods stated, in an email letter he sent out recently, that "Even after having been raw for many years I'm still surprised at what comes out of me when I go in for a professional colonics". I suspect Mike has been many years longer than any of you and he's in superb shape. I can thank him for turning me on to photoreading, holosync, kettlebells and clubbells, e3 live and a few other health items. He's also the one that turned me on to enemas and colonics and helped me to realize, after reading many other books, that they are an important part of a cleansing and healing process. If you are a raw foodist then you probably found this diet a number of ways. You wanted to be healthier, you were in a health crisis, your family imposed it on you, it was part of a natural journey, or some other reason. Whatever the reason then wouldn't you want your body to be as clean as possible. The body will never be healthy on the outside with poisons and toxins on the inside. I'm not saying I'm big on professional colonics but I am a supporter of Dr. Natura's colon products and home enemas/home colon therapy. In fact, I have a colema board and a metal bucket for administering enemas. I alternate using them but only give myself one a week. Any more than this and you will upset the natural peristaltic process that controls your bowels.

I don't know what else to say to you all. Be well, be healthy and get clean but, for G-ds sake, don't play russian roulette with your health.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

Interesting thought Judes. I know in my case, when I used to do enemas, it's entirely possible that I might have actually gotten my amoeba BECAUSE of enemas, since I never boiled the tube or bag immediately before reusing. After washing it out, I hung it up to dry. Who knows. Maybe a gecko or an ant or something got in there and deposited something yucky.

Wait a minute (please) Rawmark. If as you say it can't be proved through lab testing whether or not a person has parasites, then how can it be demonstrated that everyone who doesn't do enemas has harmful parasites? And what about testing that "nasty layer of mucoid plaque" after removing it by enemas/colonics?. That COULD be tested. Any data on that? Have all results of clinical lab tests on the nasty layer of mucoid plaque been positive for harmful parasites in first-time colonic users? Do you have clinical data on that?

And how can you prove that after an enema all the parasites are removed if you can't do a lab test to determine that? I guess you could do a follow up colonic/enema and then test whatever else came out. Any data for that? Seems like both assertions would still be fairly easy to prove clinically if they were true.

Questioning, -Ally

PS to Rawmark: I got the impression from your last post that you may be pretty tired of this long discussion, and you might be ready to call it quits. If so, it's OK by me. It's fine to agree to disagree and that's that. And I'm happy to hear you only do the treatment once a week rather than everyday or something.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2006 03:46AM by Ally.

Ally,

I'm not ready to call it quits. This discussion is too important to me. I will search for some clinical info for you. Hopefully, I will find something that works for you. However, often times, clinical trials are not always open to the public so I will also contact my M.D. friend as well.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

What puts me off about raw foodism is that there is so much talk and so little evidence. We cannot base our scientific sources on one person who may have lived a long time. What about so many SAD eaters who live well into their 90`s and some longer. I honestly don`t know what to think.
Here is some information from Dr Joel Fuhrman-a wonderful vegan doctor.

"I was taught cooked foods stick to the walls of your digestive treat crating hard, rubbery “gook” and mucous that can only be removed by colonics.


Plaques of mucous do not build up on the wall of our guts from cooked foods. Actually, thousand of people undergo colonoscopies each day, never do we see any build up on the wall of the gut. I have performed my own scoping for years and have never seen any build up in people, nor did I find it in cadavers in medical school or in the morgue. However, certain alternative medicine practices are potentially harmful such as ingesting bentonite clay which can be adherent and solidify in the colon. I agree with the message of the raw food community that raw food is essential for good health and I agree that certain type of cooking is potentially harmful, especially fried foods, browned and burnt foods and baked goods. The disagreement comes when you claim that steaming a vegetable will hurt you, your diet should be 100 percent raw and nothing should be eaten cooked. Then you are diminishing the nutritional quality of your diet and overly restricting yourself without merit or benefit"

VeganG,

It doesn't sound as if you're a raw foodist and I can't remember if I have seen you post before. That said, I'm sorry if I don't know you and you are a regular poster to this forum.

I know exactly who Joel Fuhrman is and have a lot of respect for him except for that statement. Don't ask me why but mucoid plaque doesn't show up on most ex rays or coloniscopics. I think I spelled that right. Anyway, don't ask me why but, as stated before, I have a doctor friend that told me he has looked at the colons of hundreds of folks and never saw mucoid plaque. However, he has seen results of many of those same patients after going in for colonics and has been shocked, to say the least, by what he saw.

Now, about your statement of people living into their 90's and above while still eating meat. Yes, there are some that do. My great-grandfather lived to be 110 but, as I remember him, his skin was very wrinkled and his mind had already started to go. I've noticed the same thing about many senior citizens that live to a great age of 100 or so. Just look at some of the pics posted on the today show when they show people that have just hit 100. They all look quite wrinkled, many are overweight, and we don't even know what kind of mobility they have. Living a raw diet, combined with home colonics/enemas, maybe even supplementation with a great enzyme live vitalzym or zymitrol, plenty of air, exercise, etc. not only stimulates the body to produce more enzymes- the life force of the body, but keeps the mind young and healthy. The one thing I know, from Dr. Norman Walker is that when he was alive, up until his death, he had all his wits about him, was not in a wheelchair, had slightly wrinkled skin, but looked no where near 108 or even 100. He may have list his hair but he still had a twinkle in his eye. Many of those centaurians have already lost that twinkle and are at deaths door because of their diets. Only the almighty has kept them around because the work they need to do hasn't been finished. See, I believe we are all put on this earth with a specific task. We may not know what it is or not even think about it but, at some point, you will know and will carry it out to the best of your ability. I think those other folks are here for that reason too. Only problem is that most of them don't have the mobility to carry out their task. Raw fooders, on the other hand, still have plenty of energy, a strong body of enzymes, no sore joints, and don't wait for the grim reaper.

I know this isn't an answer for your question but it's my own person feelings. I could be wrong but, being a spiritual being gives me the right to atleast point out my view.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

Mark
Thanks for your reply. I am quite new here and I`m not 100% raw or a fanatical raw foodist. I believe in the power of raw foods and am trying to eat a plant based diet with lots of fresh, raw foods..

I know what you`re saying about people twho live long but are unable to do anything-I see it all the time! I`m simply trying to be a little more skeptical and curious in my approach as I`ve seen far too many people that are fanatical about certain methods without much proof.

That said, I have already done one colonic and it was an okay experience

Anyway we`re both vegan ( yey) and I love that so yes I`m still open and receptive to the idea of colonics partly due to your persistence on this subject!

Cheers...

i believe that colonic treatments are neither good not bad. i think that a person needs to asses their condition and decide if it is right for them. i see a lot of people debating and taking sides (right or wrong). colonic treatments do take it's toll on the intestinal flora - both good and bad. they are kind of a double edged knife. it has it good points and bad points. only the individual can decide for them selves if the good out ways the bad, given their condition.
it may be that some people have mucoid plaque and others do not. some pictures can be found at [ url]http://www.cleanse.net/Plaque_Pics/plaque_pics.html[/url] for those that says its a myth. there will never be an end debate to this debate as long as some have conditions that allow them to see the benefits of colonics in the short term. does anyone have know any colonic studies that outline the negatives and positives of colonics.

Buddajah,

Everyone that has eaten cooked foods at some time in their life has mucoid plaque whether they want to believe it or not.

Personally, I'm more into home colonics, in the long run, but professional colonics are a great way to get the whole ball rolling. I even read an article recently that said that professional colonics can't get rid of the hard, caked on matter but home colonics can because the work on the body differently. Also, colonics and enemas do take their told on intestinal flora which is why it's advised to take a healthy form of flora. We should be taking something like this as raw foodists anyway be it fermented foods, kombucha tea, or a supplement. The reason is because we, unlike the rest of the world realize we must breakdown to rebuild. That is what we're doing, in a sense, with enemas and colonics. We're cleaning out the inner so we can have a healthy outer and inner.

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

Marcos, I do not believe that the true knowledge is the result of reading books, and this is clearly where our opinions differ. Neither do I believe that it comes from subconscious, which is what you seem to understand about my beliefs. To me, the knowledge comes from the higher-self. There is nothing to be scared here. On the contrary, it is the most empowering path. To me, one can only truly learn by being in presence AND intensly observing it. My first experience of spiritual bliss was the result of just that. My current attitude to raw diet is the result of that too.

Some people's approach to life is to gather information and then apply it, and of course, it works well for many. I prefer a different approach though. Instead of constructing the set of rules from the external sources, I like to let the rules be constructed from within, by the inner inteligence.

How does this work? For example, in a hypothetical situation, one could decide not to kill because of a religious law. Alternatively, one could choose to be aware of the presence and hence choose not to kill, as the result of feeling the empathy towards another being. Either way, there is no murder, but the way it happens is different. Similarly, after going raw, one could decide to follow food combining rules because they've read that they should, in some raw food bestseller. Alternatively, after going raw, one could evolve to mono eating completely spontaneously (I did) by simply observing one's body.

By the way, I do not suffer from colds, viruses and such.

Sincerely,
Gosia


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Colon cleansing is essential for everyone who has eaten cooked, processed foods. It is especially important for those who have been on a diet high in cooked starches and pasteurized dairy which clog up the digestive system and create mucoid plaque.

Enemas and colonics are two of the best ways to clean the digestive system.

Dr. Norman Walker's book "Become Younger" is required reading for all health seekers. A chapter in this book discusses how Norman Walker would take X-Ray pictures of his patients and all of them had prolapsed, distorted, twisted and other sickly looking colons.

Another required book is "Colon Health: The Key to a Vibrant Life" by Dr. Norman Walker

At the very least, you should schedule a colon cleanse to coincide with the change of the seasons, four times a year.

A raw food diet alone is not enough to heal the body from years of abuse. You must also practice fasting, drink vegetable juices, blended foods, liver / kidney / gallbladder cleansing, and colon cleansing.

I use this colema board:

[store.therawdiet.com]

It doesn't matter what you believe about colonics and enemas. You will know they work once you see the stuff that comes out of you. During a colonic you will experience things like old popcorn and twinkies come out of you that have been stuck inside for many years.

Enemas and colonics are just water, there is nothing bad about water. It is completely safe and non-toxic.

If you have sickness, illness, disease, or any symptoms, the very first step to take is colon cleansing. Dr. Richard Schulze said that over 90% of his patients completely healed their disease simply by doing a colon cleanse. It is a powerful healing tool.

[store.therawdiet.com]

Another required reading book is "The Essene Gospel of Peace"

In this book, Jesus teaches people to heal themselves through fasting and enemas. He describes how to do an enema.

Quote from The Essene Gospel of Peace of Jesus Christ:

"Renew yourselves and fast. For I tell you truly, that
Satan and his plagues may only be cast out by -fasting
and by prayer. Go by yourself and fast alone, and show
your fasting to no man.

The living God shall see it and great shall be your reward.
And fast till Beelzebub and all his evils depart from you,
and all the angels of our Earthly Mother come and serve you.

For I tell you truly, except you fast, you shall never be
freed from the power of Satan and from all diseases that
come from Satan. Fast and pray fervently, seeking the power
of the living God for your healing. While you fast, eschew
the Sons of Men and seek our Earthly Mother's angels, for
he that seeks shall find.

"Seek the fresh air of the forest and of the fields, and there
in the midst of them shall you find the angel of air. Put off
your shoes and your clothing and suffer the angel of air to
embrace all your body. Then breathe long and deeply, that the
angel of air may be brought within you. I tell you truly, the
angel of air shall cast out of your body all uncleannesses
which defiled it without and within.

And thus shall all evil-smelling and unclean things rise out of
you, as the smoke of fire curls upwards and is lost in the sea
of the air. For I tell you truly, holy is the angel of air, who
cleanses all that is unclean and makes all evil-smelling things
of a sweet odor. No man may come before the face of God, whom
the angel of air lets not pass.

Truly, all must be born again by air and by truth, for your body
breathes the air of the Earthly Mother, and your spirit breathes
the truth of the Heavenly Father.

"After the angel of air, seek the angel of water. Put off your
shoes and your clothing and suffer the angel of water to embrace
all your body. Cast yourselves wholly into his enfolding arms,
and as often as you move the air with your breath, move with your
body the water also.

I tell you truly, the angel of water shall cast out of your body
all uncleannesses which defiled it without and within. And all
unclean and evil-smelling things shall flow out of you, even as
the uncleannesses of garments washed in water flow away and are
lost in the stream of the river.

I tell you truly, holy is the angel of water who cleanses all that
is unclean and makes all evil-smelling things of a sweet odor. No
man may come before the face of God whom the angel of water lets
not pass. in very truth, all must be born again of water and of
truth, for your body bathes in the river of earthly life, and your
spirit bathes in the river of life everlasting. For you receive
your blood from our Earthly Mother and the truth from our Heavenly Father.

"Think not that it is sufficient that the angel of water embrace you
outwards only. I tell you truly, the uncleanness within is greater
by much than the uncleanness without.

And he who cleanses himself without, but within remains unclean, is
like to tombs that outwards are painted fair, but are within full of
all manner of horrible uncleannesses and abominations.

So I tell you truly, suffer the angel of water to baptize you also
within, that you may become free from all your past sins, and that
within likewise you may become as pure as the river's foam sporting
in the sunlight.

"Seek, therefore, a large trailing gourd, having a stalk the length
of a man; take out its inwards and fill it with water from the river
which the sun has warmed.

Hang it upon the branch of a tree, and kneel upon the ground before
the angel of water, and suffer the end of the stalk of the trailing
gourd to enter your hinder parts, that the water may flow through
all your bowels. Afterwards rest kneeling on the ground before the
angel of water and pray to the living God that he will forgive you
all your past sins, and pray the angel of water that he will free
your body from every uncleanness and disease.

Then let the water run out from your body, that it may carry away
from within it all the unclean and evil-smelling things of Satan.

And you shall see with your eyes and smell with your nose all the
abominations, and uncleannesses which defiled the temple of your
body; even all the sins which abode in your body, tormenting you
with all manner of pains.

I tell you truly, baptism with water frees you from all of these.

Renew your baptizing with water on every day of your fast, till the
day when you see that the water which flows out of you is as pure
as the river's foam. Then betake your body to the coursing river,
and there in the arms of the angel of water render thanks to the
living God that he has freed you from your sins.

And this holy baptizing by the angel of water is: Rebirth unto the
new life. For your eyes shall henceforth see, and your ears shall
hear. Sin no more, therefore, after your baptism, that the angels
of air and of water may eternally abide in you and serve you evermore.

"And if afterward there remain within you aught of your past sins
and uncleannesses, seek the angel of sunlight. Put off your shoes
and your clothing and suffer the angel of sunlight to embrace all
your body. Then breathe long and deeply, that the angel of sunlight
may be brought within you.

And the angel of sunlight shall cast out of your body all evil-smelling
and unclean things which defiled it without and within. And all unclean
and evil-smelling things shall rise from you, even as the darkness of
night fades before the brightness of the rising sun.

For I tell you truly, holy is the angel of sunlight who cleans out
all uncleannesses and makes all evil-smelling things of a sweet odor.

None may come before the face of God, whom the angel of sunlight lets
not pass. Truly, all must be born again of sun and of truth, for your
body basks in the sunlight of the Earthly Mother, and your spirit basks
in the sunlight of the truth of the Heavenly Father.

"The angels of air and of water and of sunlight are brethren. They
were given to the Son of Man that they might serve him, and that he
might go always from one to the other.

"Holy, likewise, is their embrace. They are indivisible children of
the Earthly Mother, so do not you put asunder those whom earth and
heaven have made one. Let these three brother angels enfold you every
day and let them abide with you through all your fasting.

"For I tell you truly, the power of devils, all sins and uncleannesses
shall depart in haste from that body which is embraced by these three
angels. As thieves flee from a deserted house at the coming of the lord
of the house, one by the door, one by the window, and the third by the
roof, each where he is found, and whither he is able, even so shall flee
from your bodies all devils of evil, all past sins, and all uncleannesses
and diseases which defiled the temple of your bodies.

When the Earthly Mother's angels enter into your bodies, in such wise
that the lords of the temple repossess it again, then shall all evil
smells depart in haste by your breath and by your skin, corrupt waters
by your mouth and by your skin, by your hinder and your privy parts.

And all these things you shall see with your eyes and smell with your
nose and touch with your hands. And when all sins and uncleannesses
are gone from your body, your blood shall become as pure as our Earthly
Mother's blood and as the river's foam sporting in the sunlight. And
your breath shall become as pure as the breath of odorous flowers; your
flesh as pure as the flesh of fruits reddening upon the leaves of trees;
the light of your eye as clear and bright as the brightness of the sun
shining upon the blue sky.

And now shall all the angels of the Earthly Mother serve you. And your
breath, your blood, your flesh shall be one with the breath, the blood
and the flesh of the Earthly Mother, that your spirit also may become
one with the spirit of your Heavenly Father. For truly, no one can reach
the Heavenly Father unless through the Earthly Mother...."

Colema Boards: [store.therawdiet.com]

That was really beautiful, well worth the read, thanks.

Wheatgrass, it does a body good!!!

I have heard one too many stories of intense miraculous healings with the use of enemas and colonics to give them a dismissive "they are bad for you" label.

And in my own life, I think they might have helped sometimes. (I only say might because I really don't know how things would have transpired if I had NOT done the enemas at those times.)

However, I just don't really like to do them and am learning that they are probably unnecessary for most people -- even really toxic people.

And then of course different people have different problems. The only time I really heard of enemas and colonics being bad for people was when they did them excessively -- too frequently for long periods of time.

Life would be so easy if we could say ALL things of a certain category are ALWAYS good or ALWAYS bad. I think in the U.S. there is a strong hunger to think this way. But life just isn't that black and white. So it seems to me.

I agree with gonnaberaw on all points. I personally could not be more against 'colonics, fasting, supplements' and in fact any sort of 'cleanse' (except if someone is about to die in a week) that doesn't consist of a simple, long-term, permanent healthy lifestyle. I know a lot more than Norman Walker did, because, first of all, he wasn't alive to see the sort of new advancements and research in the raw nutrition that have only come about in recent years; and second of all I imagine he did still have mucus and parasites in his colon because he ate dairy! I won't even mention the 'essene gospel of peace,' written, if it's authorship was somehow accurate (written by a fictional literary character..), by a demented mind a few thousand years ago. I think that Victoria Boutenko's recent research coupled with some of the data on gonnaberaw's site really are the wave of the future, and they make a lot of the old trash in this movement, including all the 'horror stories' obsolete.

Two years on 100% raw is not long enough for the body to completely clear itself out; but I say this with the knowledge that other people writing in this thread, if they have ever been 100% at all, have only been at it for a few months and in my opinion have nothing to actually contribute.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2006 11:27PM by dream earth.

Dream Earth, another voice of reason.

all this arguing about colonics, just goes to show
what crazy things people woll do when they get scared.

mucus plack alien parasites, unprovable facts
undisprovable facts.

quotes from everyone ( jesus? quoted from a gospel?,
writen probably centuries later just like all gospels
and edited by constintine? king james? henry the 8h?)

lots of scare tactics
thats what I like to call a hard sell.
I don't like so sold like that.
if it is that good it should sell it self
like fruit ( easy sell always has been )

People like to quote dead men in arguments. Who can argue with a dead man?

dream earth,

We hear you but we don't. Only when you've lived longer than Dr. Walker can you then say you know more than him. I suspect you are no where near 108 and I suspect he probably didn't put everything he knew into book form. We should all be humble in this journey and remember that no one knows everthing. I don't, in anyway, consider the Boutenko family to be authorities on raw food or health. Yes, Victoria wrote a really good book recently but Ann Wigmore discovered green smoothies long before Victoria. Victoria acts as if this was a revelation that came to her exclusively. Well, the last time I looked at Victoria she could use an enema or two herself as can her husband. Now, don't get the wrong idea, I love the Boutenko's. I can't say enough great things about them. It was there book on raw eating that finally helped me to make the complete change. All I want you to understand is that they are not the end all. I am not the end all and neither are you. However, to say that you "know more" than someone else, especially someone that lived a long life, is a bold statement. For example, how much do you know about proper breathing technique, rebirthing, deep tibetan breathing high? Hmm, would love to hear your response. Dr. Walker was always very interested in whatever he could find that would extend the human life. Are you really?

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

"All I want you to understand is that they are not the end all. I am not the end all and neither are you."

I am only the beginning!

"Victoria acts as if this was a revelation that came to her exclusively."

That's funny considering how she visibly dedicated her book 'Green For Life' to Anne Wigmore, wrote an entire chapter in this same book aboute Anne Wigmore, and openly talked of the fact that she _was_ first introduced to the idea of blended greens through a.w's energy soup but only found it pallatable years later when making a very different recipe for a green smoothie. But I wasn't talking about taking every word that the Boutenko's say as fact; people who haven't read the book don't seem to know that it isn't just a book of Victoria's philosophy, it is the results of a scientific research study which she conducted measuring the results of green smoothies on hydrochloric acid; there is now a similar study being embarked upon that measures the effects of green smoothies on B-12 levels; that is personally exciting to me. I also really beleive that she's found the reason a lot of people don't make it on the raw food diet, and the fact that anne wigmore invented energy soup isn't so important because most people generally didn't eat it while virtually every raw foodist I know in real life is now drinking green smoothies and enjoying the benefits, including myself.

I don't know everything, but neither did Norman Walker. Saying that he knew more than he wrote about in his books can't be tested because he's dead; and personally, when dealing in matters of science which is a progressive field, I don't take the word of someone who stopped developing in the 1980's, especailly not a raw food author. There is no telling how long any of us will live.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2006 03:33PM by dream earth.

Dream,

What I should have said is that you don't know more than Dr. Walker but you have access to different information. I suspect that this was how you meant for that sentence to come out.

Victoria, when she first started talking about green smoothies acted as if she had developed them on her own. I have read her book and don't like all of her recipes. Many of them go so far away from food combining that it's downright scary. However, she does have some nice recipes and it is an enjoyable read. All of the books the family read are.

Funny that you say you don't take the word of someone who died in the 80's. Does this apply to every great author who died before you or is it a selective process? If everyone felt that way we'd be missing out on a lot. So much progress is based on reviewing what has worked and enhancing it. I can't begin to tell you how many people still reference Dr. Walker and his work as well as Ann Wigmore.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

One person who really needs to have a colonic is George Bush

hahahahahahahahahahha

imagine making the next big movie thing like supersize me like a they the whole cabinet go for series of colonics and try the raw food diet!!!

don't mind me I can think up some pretty strange things sometimes!!! hahahahahahhahahahaha



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2006 01:28AM by singinraw.

hi gonnabe

i resonate with many of your points. if you are doing enemas / colonics regularly, i think you may be doing more harm than good. they have their uses but there is a time and a place for everything. they are an extreme and invasive treatment and ought to be used with respect in selective circumstances IMO - during periods of fasting possibly where elimination of mucoid plaque is desired of in cases of severe constipation and fecal impaction....

there is no black and white in a relative world and it always bemuses me why people adopt the extreme stances of any position. at a cerrtain stage in people's live, hydrotherapy may be very beneficial and at other times, it may be wholly inappropriate. the same can be said in respect of drugs and herbs - for extremely toxic people they may be life-saving while for more pure folk they may be potentially life-threatening....

paz